NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • Posts: 1,078
    Malik's idea of villainy seems to consist of talking like Billie Eilish sings.
  • Posts: 1,394
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I thought Safin would be a sort of stalker-killer in many scenes with the mask. I can only imagine what an actor like Bardem would have done with that mask. Not that Malek's performance was bad, but they didn't given him the menace that was so marketed around him in the trailers. I think Barbara even said he was a nasty piece of work.

    Agreed.Wasn’t a fan of his Phantom Of The Opera appearance and thought he was quite laughable really.

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    The problem is that while Safin's revenge Plan was understandable his whole motivation became unclear after Blofeld's death... At some point he is obsessed by Madeleine, then he wants to sell the nano bots to some random buyers. Then it is indicated that he wants to wipe out all the evil in the world. For whatever reason he also does not want Bond to live with Madeleine and Mathilde ... It is all just so confusing.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,247
    Yeah, his motive became rather unclear.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited March 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Yeah, but Safin's a whackjob - his plans probably don't even make sense to himself. And if they do seem coherent to him, that just shows how mental he really is...
  • Posts: 1,314
    I don’t mind if safins plan doesn’t make sense to him. I do mind however if it doesn’t make sense to me.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Safin's a pitiful weakling and a lame villain. He makes Koskov look like Goldfinger. There was nothing intimidating or scary about him.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    It's odd to snag Malek as the next Bond villain after his first Oscar win, only to have him so poorly underutilized throughout. He's not the worst in the series for me but feels like such an ineffective background character for someone who is able to kill the entirety of SPECTRE.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I find him to clearly be an incel. He’s a dangerous little twerp who fell in love with the 12 year old girl he was intending to kill (when he says he never forgot her eyes, it was erotic to him and sickening to anyone else).

    He’s a loser that has power via his technology and therefore has a false sense of power.

    He’s a very subtle and powerful villain
  • Posts: 12,466
    peter wrote: »
    I find him to clearly be an incel. He’s a dangerous little twerp who fell in love with the 12 year old girl he was intending to kill (when he says he never forgot her eyes, it was erotic to him and sickening to anyone else).

    He’s a loser that has power via his technology and therefore has a false sense of power.

    He’s a very subtle and powerful villain

    I like this reading and agree he's a really good villain. I feel like not near enough is said about his freakish attraction to Madeleine which is done subtly in the film but a creep factor that hadn't been done with another Bond villain.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @FoxRox , I find Safin to be the most sinister and disgusting of Craig’s antagonists.
  • Posts: 561
    FoxRox wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I find him to clearly be an incel. He’s a dangerous little twerp who fell in love with the 12 year old girl he was intending to kill (when he says he never forgot her eyes, it was erotic to him and sickening to anyone else).

    He’s a loser that has power via his technology and therefore has a false sense of power.

    He’s a very subtle and powerful villain

    I like this reading and agree he's a really good villain. I feel like not near enough is said about his freakish attraction to Madeleine which is done subtly in the film but a creep factor that hadn't been done with another Bond villain.

    I concur, I think they should've leaned into this even more. Have another seen with him and Madeleine, make him go all Dracula. Maybe have him try to get kind of handsy with her.

    The scene where he is holding Mathilde in the garden is the creepiest in any Bond movie.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,483
    While I wouldn't praise Safin like @peter or @FoxRox , I still see more points on the positive side. There are a lot of good moments and it also works that he is only seen with the mask or heared (laboratory) in the first half. I like it that his way to talk /his accent is a bit strange. The german dubbing gave him a completely normal voice which is less interesting in my opinion.
    The scene with Mathilde in the garden is a strange mix between creepy and even a bit funny ("do you like it?", "No"). It's a good scene (altough the garden is lacking the wow-factor of the novel), something completely fresh for a Bond movie. And his eyes, especially his look during the last minute of his life stick in my mind.
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, but Safin's a whackjob - his plans probably don't even make sense to himself. And if they do seem coherent to him, that just shows how mental he really is...

    Fair point. It is defintely the best explanation/excuse for his unclear plans.
    However, it remains a main problem of the movie. It isn't satisfying for the (most) viewer(s) if the main plot of the Bond villain is unclear.
    To sum up my feelings about Safin: he is a solid villain overall but the longer talk between him and Bond raises more questions than it answers and is my least favourite scene of the whole movie.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Well, Calvin Dyson explained it perfectly. Safin being obsessed by Madeleine makes no sense given the fact that they do not seem to have met for more than 20 years.... Furthermore, Safin just used her as a weapon to kill Blofeld....
  • Posts: 1,394
    Calvin also made a good point that Bond was already infected with Nanobots before his meeting with Brofeld.At the Cuba party when all the Spectre agents are killed,Bond is right there in the middle of it but although they are not programmed to kill HIM,he’d still be infected right?
  • Posts: 561
    GBF wrote: »
    Well, Calvin Dyson explained it perfectly. Safin being obsessed by Madeleine makes no sense given the fact that they do not seem to have met for more than 20 years.... Furthermore, Safin just used her as a weapon to kill Blofeld....

    It's a fairy tale motif where the villain falls in love with the princess and tries to possess her. A lot of monster movies do this as well — Dracula, King Kong immediately come to mind.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    BMB007 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Well, Calvin Dyson explained it perfectly. Safin being obsessed by Madeleine makes no sense given the fact that they do not seem to have met for more than 20 years.... Furthermore, Safin just used her as a weapon to kill Blofeld....

    It's a fairy tale motif where the villain falls in love with the princess and tries to possess her. A lot of monster movies do this as well — Dracula, King Kong immediately come to mind.

    Yeah it seems like classic stories are retold all the time.

  • Posts: 561
    BMB007 wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    Well, Calvin Dyson explained it perfectly. Safin being obsessed by Madeleine makes no sense given the fact that they do not seem to have met for more than 20 years.... Furthermore, Safin just used her as a weapon to kill Blofeld....

    It's a fairy tale motif where the villain falls in love with the princess and tries to possess her. A lot of monster movies do this as well — Dracula, King Kong immediately come to mind.

    Yeah it seems like classic stories are retold all the time.

    Bingo. We've been telling the same stories for thousands and thousands of years, just changing up the coat of paint. But the walls and concrete are all the same.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Normally, this may work but in NTTD it Just doesn't. If Madeleine was kidnapped more or less out of a certain context - as it has often been the case in Bond films - it would have been fine. But the filmmakers tried to make more out of it and that just does not make any sense... They indicate a special relationship between the two in the PTS which is then completely forgotton by them for 20 years.... Really??? Then Safin uses her as a weapon in order to kill Blofeld without showing any further interest. In the next scene, he is chasing her with a whole army. Why would that be necessary?? Especially since Madeleine and Mathilde could have easily been killed in that Chase. Sorry, it all just doesn't make sense and it is just poorly put together by a lazy script...
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    It was never going to be easy serializing Bond films in a mostly unplanned way though. The scripts were always going to be problematic. Craig's Bond was awesome, but let's hope EON knows the full direction they're going for the era of Bond 7 and not just his first and second film.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Didn't MGW say something to the effect that they always wait to see the reaction to the new film before they decide where to go with the next one? That can't be great for any long-term planning.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    The thing I thought right after first viewing, was what happened after he pulled her Madeline out of the ice, did Safin just leave her there? Who raised her Mr White? Why didn't Mr White seek revenge for his wife?

    It left a lot of that backstory purposely ambiguous, but that didn't help later on when we need to buy into Safin's motivation and he and Madeline's shared past
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited March 2022 Posts: 10,591
    Agreed re. Safin's unusually ambiguous scheme but am quite surprised to hear him being labeled as the worst in the series. I thing Malek gave one of the most menacing villain performances in the series and he has some excellent scenes.

    I love the vast majority of NTTD but I stand firm on my dislike of Valdo Obruchev, tonally he just doesn't belong in the film in the context of the scenes built around him. He undermines the stakes and overall quality of every scene he's in. A heavily misguided character and I can't comprehend why the writers thought it would be appropriate to include him in a film where Bond dies.

    If they simply had Dencik play a more grounded character the film would be so much stronger.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,789
    I could have gone with an even more focused film, sure. As it is, along with the drama the film includes a lot of humor through the characters. I expect as counterpart to the ending. Seeking some balance or relief.

    Valdo is introduced as comic relief and he's that to the end. At the same time he's an example of a soulless, despicable human example of a unfeeling, cold instrument that can destroy others without a thought.

    That really registered with me as a chilling element to the character. And very relevant in our times.

  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited March 2022 Posts: 4,247
    jake24 wrote: »
    Agreed re. Safin's unusually ambiguous scheme but am quite surprised to hear him being labeled as the worst in the series. I thing Malek gave one of the most menacing villain performances in the series and he has some excellent scenes.

    I love the vast majority of NTTD but I stand firm on my dislike of Valdo Obruchev, tonally he just doesn't belong in the film in the context of the scenes built around him. He undermines the stakes and overall quality of every scene he's in. A heavily misguided character and I can't comprehend why the writers thought it would be appropriate to include him in a film where Bond dies.

    If they simply had Dencik play a more grounded character the film would be so much stronger.

    Exactly! I never understood the need for excessive comedy in a film where Bond is a tragic Greek hero, it's almost disrespectful adding comedy. That's why Bond's death felt like a sucker punch, because after all the jokes, he still dies. Another very misleading part is, Dencik was marketed as a very serious character in the character posters, plus he wasn't shown in the trailers....which give the film a serious look, especially the Cuba scenes. I'm not a fan of Bond dying, but if you must do it for the first time ever, give the film an eerie feel throughout, so we can see his death coming before it happens, as this will make his death worth it.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    "so we can see his death coming before it happens". I disagree. I like the end product a lot. It hit me hard the time(s) and I didn't want to know after 30 minutes that he will die.
    And I'm glad they put in some humour. Or shouldn't Lazenby be allowed to talk about his stiffness because Tracy finally dies? However I could also live with a bit less Obruchev in the last scenes...
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    "so we can see his death coming before it happens". I disagree. I like the end product a lot. It hit me hard the time(s) and I didn't want to know after 30 minutes that he will die.
    And I'm glad they put in some humour. Or shouldn't Lazenby be allowed to talk about his stiffness because Tracy finally dies? However I could also live with a bit less Obruchev in the last scenes...

    Oh, I mean the tone of the film should have been consistent to fit the ending, not that we necessarily needed to see his death coming. I'm sure a lot of people easily accepted Maximus' death in Gladiator, because the tone of the film was even and they weren't exactly sad when he died, because the film maintained a serious and heroic tone throughout.
  • edited March 2022 Posts: 1,078
    I've got a friend who was really surprised that Bond died. She said, even when the bombs went off, she still expected him to have escaped. One reason for her being surprised at the death was him being infected. I'll explain.
    When the Bond's daughter came into it, my friend thought 'Bond with a daughter? how will they make that work in future films?'
    Then, Bond get infected with anti-Maddy/Matilde nanobots, and my friend thought 'ah, that's clever, because he's infected, that means he'll not be able to see his daughter and be the family man after all, and he'll go back to being the same old James Bond'.
    So she was prepared for a bittersweet ending where Maddy and Matilde move away, and Bond is back in the secret service doing his duty.
    So when they blew him up, it was very much a surprise for her. She said when the credits rolled she was going 'is that it?', and I can understand that. As James Bond's post-death epilogue was what, four or five minutes?
    It was like, sixty years of movies, then BOOOM!, "he used his time", chink, vroom vroom, cue Satchmo.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    "so we can see his death coming before it happens". I disagree. I like the end product a lot. It hit me hard the time(s) and I didn't want to know after 30 minutes that he will die.
    And I'm glad they put in some humour. Or shouldn't Lazenby be allowed to talk about his stiffness because Tracy finally dies? However I could also live with a bit less Obruchev in the last scenes...

    Oh, I mean the tone of the film should have been consistent to fit the ending, not that we necessarily needed to see his death coming. I'm sure a lot of people easily accepted Maximus' death in Gladiator, because the tone of the film was even and they weren't exactly sad when he died, because the film maintained a serious and heroic tone throughout.

    +1
    One of the big problems I had with NTTD, was the deaths were brushed off too quickly. If we had seen how Felix or Blofeld's death had affected Bond a bit more, maybe it would have foreshadowed time is running out.
    A few seconds looking at cigar didn't feel enough for someone who Bond saw him as a brother

    Maybe it would have dragged down the pace of the film too much, the pace of NTTD was great.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    "so we can see his death coming before it happens". I disagree. I like the end product a lot. It hit me hard the time(s) and I didn't want to know after 30 minutes that he will die.
    And I'm glad they put in some humour. Or shouldn't Lazenby be allowed to talk about his stiffness because Tracy finally dies? However I could also live with a bit less Obruchev in the last scenes...

    Oh, I mean the tone of the film should have been consistent to fit the ending, not that we necessarily needed to see his death coming. I'm sure a lot of people easily accepted Maximus' death in Gladiator, because the tone of the film was even and they weren't exactly sad when he died, because the film maintained a serious and heroic tone throughout.

    +1
    One of the big problems I had with NTTD, was the deaths were brushed off too quickly. If we had seen how Felix or Blofeld's death had affected Bond a bit more, maybe it would have foreshadowed time is running out.
    A few seconds looking at cigar didn't feel enough for someone who Bond saw him as a brother

    Maybe it would have dragged down the pace of the film too much, the pace of NTTD was great.

    That's where the lack of long-term planning comes in again. NTTD is a long film and still feels rushed in places (or on the positive side: it really moves) because they had to do shorthand like f.e. him looking at the cigar for a few seconds to convey loads of emotions because there was no time to dwell on it. You could even argue that they manage to set-up that moment very well with a handful of very short moments of the cigar being connected to Felix, but when you look at Marvel, who are the masters of this kind of stuff, they peppered in the set-ups through 6 movies, then re-inforced or re-contextualized them in 12 (!) more movies and then have a payoff-bonanza were they can fire off loads of emotional callbacks ("on your left" "I am Iron Man", the Hammer, just to name a few) one after the other. There's loads of things to hate about those films and that kind of storytelling specifically, but it's effective and they are very good at it.

    Thinking about this a bit more, it's kind of mindboggling that in two of the major death scenes in NTTD, one has a callback to a book from 1964 and the other to a film from 1969.
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