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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Or maybe before Madeleine answers Mathilde, by saying "His name's.....the film ends then David Arnold & Chris Cornell's YKMN plays over the end credits instead of WHATTITW.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    :))

    I always think too about how exactly Madeleine was going to relay this particular story to a toddler…

    “It all begins when Bond flies over to the Swiss alps so he can tell me that your grandfather just ate a gun, and I have a guy with a penchant for shoving steel fingernails into peoples eyes chasing me down. Chapter Two: sex and violence on a train…”
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    True, she'd've had to be pretty damn selective in what stories she was going to tell the kid... :D
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I wonder if the end was part of her negotiations to come back for NTTD…
    “I’ll only come back if I can be James Bond.”
    “…best we can do is give you “Bond, James Bond”.
    “Deal.”
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    It's really odd how a good actress like Seydoux just couldn't nail the Madeleine character. Maybe someone like Berenice Marlohe who made such an impression with the limited time given to her in SF, would have made Madeleine the enigmatic character she's supposed to be, plus magnetic chemistry with Craig.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I'm not sure what it is about Seydoux, she's a wonderful actress and extremely talented, but as a character Madeline Swann is purposely written as cold, I never took to her like I did Vesper.

    Vesper was written as a tough, icey, strong character without her ever having to pick up a gun and I think that's the mistake with Swann's character. They never gave Lea a scene were she could show Madeline as vulnerable and in need of Bond.

    Lea is a great actress but I never bought Madeline and Bond in love and I think it comes down to the underdeveloped scripts and a lack of chemistry between the actors
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited August 2022 Posts: 6,304
    Yes, I think they could have leaned into the daddy issues with Madeleine a bit more like they did with Tracy. A scene or two with Jesper Christensen would have helped as he is excellent.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    echo wrote: »
    Yes, I think they could have leaned into the daddy issues with Madeleine a bit more like they did with Tracy. A scene or two with Jesper Christensen would have helped as he is excellent.

    Yeah, I think this would have happened, if they planned Craig's era properly.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    It would be fun sometime to take a look back at the Craig era and rearrange all the elements into a more cohesive story.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    It would be fun sometime to take a look back at the Craig era and rearrange all the elements into a more cohesive story.

    Just what I was thinking.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I'm not sure what it is about Seydoux, she's a wonderful actress and extremely talented, but as a character Madeline Swann is purposely written as cold, I never took to her like I did Vesper.

    Vesper was written as a tough, icey, strong character without her ever having to pick up a gun and I think that's the mistake with Swann's character. They never gave Lea a scene were she could show Madeline as vulnerable and in need of Bond.

    Lea is a great actress but I never bought Madeline and Bond in love and I think it comes down to the underdeveloped scripts and a lack of chemistry between the actors

    It's not that, she's distant towards Bond.
    She barely smiles, she have this very depressing and sad persona and mood.
    She's not likeable, she's a bit boring and dull too.

    Lea Seydoux was a good actress, but I could also blame her for not doing something with the character, yes, the character was not that good as written, but at some situations, it's the actors'/actresses' performance that elevates them, with Seydoux, she just got into the wave.

    Lea Seydoux was really miscast here (she's not that fit to be Bond's main girlfriend), she could have been a great villainess or femme fatale like her role in MI:Ghost Protocol, but they've missed that opportunity and created a lot more worse.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    It would be fun sometime to take a look back at the Craig era and rearrange all the elements into a more cohesive story.
    There's always this thread https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/194/your-ultimate-bond-timeline#latest
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited August 2022 Posts: 7,551
    Also, this will be a dumb post, but NTTD breaks the casino / hotel setpiece alternation that's been in place since GoldenEye:

    GE: Baccarat with Xenia
    TND: Paris Carver Hotel
    TWINE: Zuchovsky's Casino
    DAD: Cuba... or the ice palace or something, I don't know... feels like a "hotel" film and I don't think there's any gambling
    CR: CR
    QOS: Teachers on Sabbatical; La Perla de las Dunas
    SF: Macau Floating Dragon Casino
    SP: Hoffler Clinic (I imagine people stay there); L'Americain
    NTTD: ??? This feels more like a "hotel" film (given Matera, at least) than a "casino" film (no gambling whatsoever).

    EDIT: Maybe it started with Dalton...
    TLD: Hotel from the Fleming-Faithful sniper section of the story
    LTK: Casino in Isthmus
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    I've missed those gambling scenes, since Quantum of Solace, Bond was no longer a gambler.

    That's one of his main traits.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Yeah. The Macau casino scene is a stand out in SF, but even then he barely touches his Sic Bo.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I guess they thought they provided so much gambling in CR that the rest of the era didn't need much more of it, which is a shame. I always liked seeing Craig's Bond in those settings.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    Also, this will be a dumb post, but NTTD breaks the casino / hotel setpiece alternation that's been in place since GoldenEye:

    GE: Baccarat with Xenia
    TND: Paris Carver Hotel
    TWINE: Zuchovsky's Casino
    DAD: Cuba... or the ice palace or something, I don't know... feels like a "hotel" film and I don't think there's any gambling
    CR: CR
    QOS: Teachers on Sabbatical; La Perla de las Dunas
    SF: Macau Floating Dragon Casino
    SP: Hoffler Clinic (I imagine people stay there); L'Americain
    NTTD: ??? This feels more like a "hotel" film (given Matera, at least) than a "casino" film (no gambling whatsoever).

    EDIT: Maybe it started with Dalton...
    TLD: Hotel from the Fleming-Faithful sniper section of the story
    LTK: Casino in Isthmus

    Isn't CR a casino-hotel movie?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    You're not wrong but I figured the focus was on the casino.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I guess they thought they provided so much gambling in CR that the rest of the era didn't need much more of it, which is a shame. I always liked seeing Craig's Bond in those settings.

    Not just Craig's Bond, I just really liked seeing James Bond in casinos.
    Him in a Tuxedo, ordering his favorite drink and playing cards.
    That's Bond, that's one of the traits that Fleming wrote into the character.

    He's the best gambler in MI6! Even Du Pont asked a help from him for his game with Goldfinger in the novel.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Dr. No’s gambling was great too because they found him there on his own time, rather than doing it embroiled in a mission; like locating a beast in his den.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I always figured they wrote in Bond introduced in a casino in DN because that was their nod to CR, which they didn’t have the rights to. Was that ever confirmed?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I guess they thought they provided so much gambling in CR that the rest of the era didn't need much more of it, which is a shame. I always liked seeing Craig's Bond in those settings.

    Not just Craig's Bond, I just really liked seeing James Bond in casinos.
    Him in a Tuxedo, ordering his favorite drink and playing cards.
    That's Bond, that's one of the traits that Fleming wrote into the character.

    He's the best gambler in MI6! Even Du Pont asked a help from him for his game with Goldfinger in the novel.

    That bit from the GF novel would be amazing to see adapted into a film at some point.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 4,166
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I guess they thought they provided so much gambling in CR that the rest of the era didn't need much more of it, which is a shame. I always liked seeing Craig's Bond in those settings.

    Not just Craig's Bond, I just really liked seeing James Bond in casinos.
    Him in a Tuxedo, ordering his favorite drink and playing cards.
    That's Bond, that's one of the traits that Fleming wrote into the character.

    He's the best gambler in MI6! Even Du Pont asked a help from him for his game with Goldfinger in the novel.

    That bit from the GF novel would be amazing to see adapted into a film at some point.

    There's a few things to do with gambling in the Fleming novels that haven't been fully adapted for the films. The whole set up to MR is another one which is quite an effective way to begin a Bond adventure. I also rather like the bit in the CR novel when Le Chiffre's henchman has the cane gun pointed at Bond's back and no one seems to notice.

    I suspect it's something to do with the fact that it's actually quite difficult to make a long, drawn out gambling session come off as tense in a film. CR was quite effective at it, but even that had to resort to Mathis whispering what was going on to Vesper at times (rather loudly I might add).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Funny thing is I know how to play baccarat but I have NO idea how poker works at all. Even with Mathis’ comments, I couldn’t understand what it was Bond needed to win the game and how his hand is better.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Funny thing is I know how to play baccarat but I have NO idea how poker works at all. Even with Mathis’ comments, I couldn’t understand what it was Bond needed to win the game and how his hand is better.

    To be honest, watching it in TV (the poker scenes) bored me a bit, because I just don't understand it.

    Unlike when I'm watching Baccarat in the classic films, it's exciting and looked cool.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suspect it's something to do with the fact that it's actually quite difficult to make a long, drawn out gambling session come off as tense in a film. CR was quite effective at it, but even that had to resort to Mathis whispering what was going on to Vesper at times (rather loudly I might add).
    True - imagine the struggle if they made an authentic adaptation of MR!
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,166
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suspect it's something to do with the fact that it's actually quite difficult to make a long, drawn out gambling session come off as tense in a film. CR was quite effective at it, but even that had to resort to Mathis whispering what was going on to Vesper at times (rather loudly I might add).
    True - imagine the struggle if they made an authentic adaptation of MR!

    I suppose a loose version of it was done in OP with Khan cheating at the dice game. It's obviously shortened and the game is changed to make it easier to follow for the audience.

    But yes, it's tricky making those scenes work. I'm not a gambler myself and have no idea (and I must admit do not care) what's going on during the actual game in the casino scenes of GE and DN. What makes those scenes work are the interactions between Bond and the women across the table. Perhaps if gambling is included in the next film it'll simply be for the purpose of Bond interacting with important characters?
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suspect it's something to do with the fact that it's actually quite difficult to make a long, drawn out gambling session come off as tense in a film. CR was quite effective at it, but even that had to resort to Mathis whispering what was going on to Vesper at times (rather loudly I might add).
    True - imagine the struggle if they made an authentic adaptation of MR!

    Not really, if they took a leaf from the 1973 Redford/Newman film The Sting. There is an excellent card game cheat scene which plays out brilliantly on screen.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    007HallY wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I suspect it's something to do with the fact that it's actually quite difficult to make a long, drawn out gambling session come off as tense in a film. CR was quite effective at it, but even that had to resort to Mathis whispering what was going on to Vesper at times (rather loudly I might add).
    True - imagine the struggle if they made an authentic adaptation of MR!

    I suppose a loose version of it was done in OP with Khan cheating at the dice game. It's obviously shortened and the game is changed to make it easier to follow for the audience.

    But yes, it's tricky making those scenes work. I'm not a gambler myself and have no idea (and I must admit do not care) what's going on during the actual game in the casino scenes of GE and DN. What makes those scenes work are the interactions between Bond and the women across the table. Perhaps if gambling is included in the next film it'll simply be for the purpose of Bond interacting with important characters?

    Good point. OP does a really good job of showing Bond using the villain's cheating against him...and dice are a lot more cinematic than bridge.

    It's certainly something that Fleming would readily understand from his club days but it would be harder to make cinematic.

    If people were annoyed by Mathis' explaining of poker in CR, imagine what they would need to do with bridge in MR. "Dummy hand" and all that.

    Plus the recurring word "trump" would probably take a lot of people out of the movie.

    Honestly, I have a hard time seeing how they would have a bridge game in a Bond film.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    echo wrote: »
    Plus the recurring word "trump" would probably take a lot of people out of the movie.
    For different reasons in Britain and America...
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