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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    EinoRistoSiniaho wrote: »
    I haven't seen the film yet, but I have tickets for Sunday. I do have one question: is the deplorable Austin Powers-twist referred?

    If you mean Brofeld, I'd actually say NTTD almost goes out its way to ignore it as much as it possibly can despite Blofeld being in the film.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 524
    EinoRistoSiniaho wrote: »
    I haven't seen the film yet, but I have tickets for Sunday. I do have one question: is the deplorable Austin Powers-twist referred?

    Yes. Blofeld makes a reference to the cuckoo, and the fact that Bond and Blofeld are foster brothers is given some importance, but Bond calls him Blofeld the entire time.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    Posts: 73
    Yes, I meant the foster brother angle. It has to be the worst creative decision EON has ever made. Completely against Fleming and even unnecessary from story/dramatic perspective. So glad if its ignored.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    EinoRistoSiniaho wrote: »
    Yes, I meant the foster brother angle. It has to be the worst creative decision EON has ever made. Completely against Fleming and even unnecessary from story/dramatic perspective. So glad if its ignored.

    It's not. Q refers to it.
  • EinoRistoSiniahoEinoRistoSiniaho Oulu, Finland
    Posts: 73
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    It's not. Q refers to it.
    Oh well, I won't let it hamper my enjoyment of the film/story. Maybe they'll do it right next time.

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Blofeld at the party directly refers him to "his brother". But then they make it also clear they're not related. It's just Blofeld who is obsessed with this thing. He killed his father because of that, I mean...
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    matt_u wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    This may be the most depressing thread ever. Jesus Christ…

    +1

    Just wait until a journalist joins the forums and we get an article about how us Bond fans are all moaning infants based on the evidence of this thread.... :))

    For what is worth my show yesterday was sold out and at the end everybody cheered in excitement. Perhaps the film is garbage only to some hardcore fans.

    Do audiences like Bond? For years I've read and heard people calling for Bond to end and with Bond being unceremoniously decimated, and seeing people rate this as a great movie, or best Bond ever and to hear people cheering at the end, I have to question if this is more a celebration of thinking this is an end to Bond mores than triumphant appraisal of the movie being THAT good.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    matt_u wrote: »
    Blofeld at the party directly refers him to "his brother". But then they make it also clear they're not related. It's just Blofeld who is obsessed with this thing. He killed his father because of that, I mean...

    I almost laughed (in a good way) when Q makes it very clear that Bond and Blofeld aren't blood related. It felt like the producers were directly speaking to fans who still think of them as actual brothers.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Something that really bothers me lol. When Bond speaks in London about SPECTRE's party he refers to it as "SPECTRE's BUNGA BUNGA".

    I hope that's just a silly italian translation given how (in)famous were Berlusconi's bunga bunga party.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    matt_u wrote: »
    Something that really bothers me lol. When Bond speaks in London about SPECTRE's party he refers to it as "SPECTRE's BUNGA BUNGA".

    I hope that's just a silly italian translation given how (in)famous were Berlusconi's bunga bunga party.

    Pretty sure he said that in English....
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Something that really bothers me lol. When Bond speaks in London about SPECTRE's party he refers to it as "SPECTRE's BUNGA BUNGA".

    I hope that's just a silly italian translation given how (in)famous were Berlusconi's bunga bunga party.

    Pretty sure he said that in English....

    OMG really? That's silly.
  • TotalBBTotalBB
    Posts: 15
    Not sure if this was already mentioned (I didn't read everything), but did anyone else notice how Madeleine rubbed her belly when she was put on the train by Bond? Still haven't decided if that was a nice touch or too obvious.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    matt_u wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    Something that really bothers me lol. When Bond speaks in London about SPECTRE's party he refers to it as "SPECTRE's BUNGA BUNGA".

    I hope that's just a silly italian translation given how (in)famous were Berlusconi's bunga bunga party.

    Pretty sure he said that in English....

    OMG really? That's silly.

    Had it in the German dub, too.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,274
    TotalBB wrote: »
    Not sure if this was already mentioned (I didn't read everything), but did anyone else notice how Madeleine rubbed her belly when she was put on the train by Bond? Still haven't decided if that was a nice touch or too obvious.

    She also tells Bond the exact same story about "a man coming to my home to kill my father", as she told him on the train in SP. There was no need for that. At least she could have started the sentence with "as you know..."
  • 007007x007007x
    Posts: 55
    matt_u wrote: »
    Something that really bothers me lol. When Bond speaks in London about SPECTRE's party he refers to it as "SPECTRE's BUNGA BUNGA".

    I hope that's just a silly italian translation given how (in)famous were Berlusconi's bunga bunga party.

    I think I heard that too, pretty sure that’s something PWB would input
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    TotalBB wrote: »
    Not sure if this was already mentioned (I didn't read everything), but did anyone else notice how Madeleine rubbed her belly when she was put on the train by Bond? Still haven't decided if that was a nice touch or too obvious.

    Yeah I noticed that at the time, and I never put two and two together, it was subtle. I took it like she was just so physically by Bond's coldness towards her. Didn't think that's what they were aiming for
    Did anyone know what Madeline wrote on her piece of paper?
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    The masked man, but in French
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    TotalBB wrote: »
    Not sure if this was already mentioned (I didn't read everything), but did anyone else notice how Madeleine rubbed her belly when she was put on the train by Bond? Still haven't decided if that was a nice touch or too obvious.

    Yeah I noticed that at the time, and I never put two and two together, it was subtle. I took it like she was just so physically by Bond's coldness towards her. Didn't think that's what they were aiming for
    Did anyone know what Madeline wrote on her piece of paper?

    It was her chippy order but then she realised Matera has Ubereats.
  • TotalBBTotalBB
    Posts: 15
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    TotalBB wrote: »
    Not sure if this was already mentioned (I didn't read everything), but did anyone else notice how Madeleine rubbed her belly when she was put on the train by Bond? Still haven't decided if that was a nice touch or too obvious.

    Yeah I noticed that at the time, and I never put two and two together, it was subtle. I took it like she was just so physically by Bond's coldness towards her. Didn't think that's what they were aiming for
    Did anyone know what Madeline wrote on her piece of paper?

    I immediately thought "OK, she's pregnant" and it kinda spoiled the surprise for me. But maybe it's like you said and it was not their intention, but just my imagination. ;)
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    DCisared wrote: »
    SonofSean wrote: »
    Killing Bond is a big, bold, brave move, but it worked. And when he was shot (painfully) and hit the floor I actually let out an expletive in the cinema! It really hit me in the gut. The many OHMSS nods was music (literally) to my ears. And Bond's last line "You have all the time in the world..." Sob. The music throughout was great too. I should have guessed the ending after they offed both Felix Lighter and Blofeld! I thought the mcguffin / WMD hunt was brilliantly done (a great and scary idea but also completely preposterous) Pacing much improved over Spectre. Craig was fantastic as was the supporting cast. The scene I will remember most vividly until the day I die is Bond running around with his daughters bunny toy tucked in his braces. The last 40 minutes was incredible. The stairway battle was f**king amazing. The set design on Safin's lair was pure Dr No. Ken Adam would've approved. And the movie looked INCREDIBLE. I can't wait to see it again. 9/10.

    Think his last line is "I know" . Funny I was thinking about how Scouse his first line in the film is "you ok?" :))

    I was wondering if anyone else would pick up on that, I noticed it and smirked a bit. Scouse Bond
    It reminded me of Dalton in LTK (things were about to turn nasty)

    Did anyone else find it weird how there was a lot of choppy cuts to get to next scene? Like they cut something for pacing in almost every location

    Hah! I never noticed this but being Scouse too I'll keep an ear out next time I go to watch it at the cinema. I've noticed before it definitely slips out of him from time to time in the past.

    Lovely stuff :)>-
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,641
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    The masked man, but in French

    Thank you. Trust me take a sip of my drink at
    a key moment

    Not sure how I felt about the title sequence this time round. It wasn't memorable for me and my overriding thoughts were nerves when I saw the hourglass (especially given Bond had said "we have all the time in the world") I had horrible feeling they were implying my biggest fear for NTTD
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    Not sure it's relevant but did anyone else think Craig looked ready for a bunga, bunga party in that horrendous fuchsia jacket at the premiere...... ;)
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,343
    I didn’t know that phrase was so popular worldwide.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    I've just seen NTTD and I really liked the PTS and pretty much everything up to and including Jamaica and Cuba. I really loved Ana de Armas and could've done with more Paloma throughout the entire movie. Looking back, it's when Bond bids farewell to Paloma that things start to unravel quickly for me. Sure, I still like some of the snappy dialogue between M and Bond, and loved Craig's overall performance, but found myself becoming increasingly detached from the story as it progressed. When we head into Liam Neeson territory of a child-in-peril after dispatching two of its reprising characters, is where it stops being a thrilling Bond ride. My overall conclusion is that NTTD has a very strong start and a mediocre second half. The finale didn't pack the same emotional punch for me as perhaps it has done for many others here due to my detachment from the story at roughly the midway mark. I also found Madeleine Swann's final words to her doe-eyed daughter in the car total cringe. However, I did enjoy James Bond will Return featured in the end credits. Roll on Bond 26.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    bondsum wrote: »
    I've just seen NTTD and I really liked the PTS and pretty much everything up to and including Jamaica and Cuba. I really loved Ana de Armas and could've done with more Paloma throughout the entire movie. Looking back, it's when Bond bids farewell to Paloma that things start to unravel quickly for me. Sure, I still like some of the snappy dialogue between M and Bond, and loved Craig's overall performance, but found myself becoming increasingly detached from the story as it progressed. When we head into Liam Neeson territory of a child-in-peril after dispatching two of its reprising characters, is where it stops being a thrilling Bond ride. My overall conclusion is that NTTD has a very strong start and a mediocre second half. The finale didn't pack the same emotional punch for me as perhaps it has done for many others here due to my detachment from the story at roughly the midway mark. I also found Madeleine Swann's final words to her doe-eyed daughter in the car total cringe. However, I did enjoy James Bond will Return featured in the end credits. Roll on Bond 26.

    My feelings exactly, @bondsum. It’s because the first part of the film is so good that the rest enrages me so much.
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    This may be the most depressing thread ever. Jesus Christ…

    +1

    Just wait until a journalist joins the forums and we get an article about how us Bond fans are all moaning infants based on the evidence of this thread.... :))

    For what is worth my show yesterday was sold out and at the end everybody cheered in excitement. Perhaps the film is garbage only to some hardcore fans.

    Do audiences like Bond? For years I've read and heard people calling for Bond to end and with Bond being unceremoniously decimated, and seeing people rate this as a great movie, or best Bond ever and to hear people cheering at the end, I have to question if this is more a celebration of thinking this is an end to Bond mores than triumphant appraisal of the movie being THAT good.

    Great point. I think many are applauding the film for killing off the "outdated misogynist white male colonizer" whether they admit it, even to themselves, or not.

    Yes, James will return but in what form? I think folks who are hoping for something closer to the Bond films of yore are going to be sorely disappointed.

    Some have even said (this is likely too far-fetched) that they are setting up Bond's daughter to be his successor and that Paloma will be her "trainer". It sounds crazy but that's par for the course in today's mainstream Hollywood, and I wouldn't place the Bond saga outside that realm of influence.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Univex wrote: »
    My feelings exactly, @bondsum. It’s because the first part of the film is so good that the rest enrages me so much.
    Yes, it's so strange. The first half is really, really good. There's the odd line or two that I groaned aloud at—such as "magnets!" when Dencik's character is falling down the shaft—but overall I was really enjoying everything up to Paloma saying goodbye to Bond. I was thinking to myself, if they can maintain this level of intrigue and excellence throughout the entire movie, then perhaps some of the criticisms have been unjust. Sadly, this wasn't to be. Not for this particular Bond fan.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    My God.
    LizW wrote: »
    I have commented here a couple of times and follow a lot of the discussions but am not a regular. I have been watching Bond since I was a child, though (whichisratheralongtimeago). Anyway, my partner and I went to see NTTD last night and really liked it overall, including the ending. Some of the big set pieces, like the island bridge, were stunning. Craig always looks to me like he's actually fighting for his life in fist fights, not just throwing punches, and I thought there was quite a lot of tension. The plot struck me as particularly ironic given what we've just been through in terms of communicable diseases that may or may not have been leaked from a dodgy lab.

    As a woman, I liked the female characters and indeed, the little girls: young Madeleine was pretty kick-ass (I don't think I'd have been able to shoot a man and drag him through the snow as a young teenager) and Matilde wasn't soppily cute, but rather watchful. One of the problems I've always had with Bond is that the women are so disposable and expendable, although one has to remember that a lot of them were pretty strong characters in their own right, especially in the 60s and 70s. I still have fond memories of Fatima Blush's awesome outfits (as a little girl watching Bond movies, it's as much for the glamour as the action). That expendability is gone here: Paloma obviously is on her own agenda and just walks off, which worked for me.

    I also liked the irony of the bioweapon being a MI6 project (as one reviewer said, did they not think 'what could possibly go wrong?'), liked the sparring with M but also that the film allowed M to reclaim some dignity and also that Bond is pragmatic enough to drop it (he's not in a position to cast aspersions on anyone else's drinking habits, though!). I liked the possibly Mormon double-agent - he was more of a standout character for me than Eye Guy, mainly because clean cut Mid Westerners are usually the hero in these things. Though Nomi was good, and Lea Seydoux showed more of a range than in Spectre. I quite like her sombre demeanour, actually: it has grown on me. Scene at Q's house was pretty funny and Bond's comment about the cats amused me more than the rather cliched quips, which always made me groan, rather like Christmas crackers.

    One of the reasons we booked early, apart from actually finally wanting to see the damn film, was to avoid spoilers and I did, so the ending was a shock. I am tending towards the view that they'll have to do a complete reboot and not mention the death, which is a shame as I like the current MI6 team. The Craig era has not been entirely continuous, however, as Dench's M was a holdover from previous films and did not, for instance, remark "My God, James, you're a shorter, blonder man than you were a few weeks ago!" when Craig walks in instead of Brosnan (IIRC). However, Bond's actual demise is a bigger hurdle and it would look a bit odd if they keep the current team and no-one mentioned it. They could pull a Reichenbach Falls and explain it away (e.g. ground gives way beneath Bond's feet as the first missile hits, precipitates him into underground chamber, shockwave washes him up on a neighbouring island....sure, it's preposterous but no more so than some of his escapes).

    Continuity in these things is weird anyway and it doesn't do to examine it too closely. Original Bond would be about 8 years older than my mum and she's 93, so one has to accept this rolling forward of men with the same name. Peter O'Donnell once addressed this directly - I am a big Modesty Blaise fan and would far rather see a good film of that than a female Bond, by the way - and rewrote Modesty's history as a thought experiment: rather than growing up in the Second World War, he posited that she could have been born during one of the Balkan conflicts instead and followed the timeline from there.

    Anyway, overall, NTTD was definitely a winner for me.

    Thoughtfully written, and I'm glad you were able to see it fresh without spoilers ahead of time. Thank you, @LizW. I'm also female; in addition, I am one of the oldest fans here. I agree with your points, and I like this film VERY much. It will be the most divisive (for longtime Bond fans) of all the films throughout the history of the franchise. Because of the ending, I don't see how one can be "in the middle" for this one. I rank it very highly, and I hope it does great box office. Certainly, it was beautifully filmed and acted. I'm seeing it again in 2 days.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    My God.
    LizW wrote: »
    I have commented here a couple of times and follow a lot of the discussions but am not a regular. I have been watching Bond since I was a child, though (whichisratheralongtimeago). Anyway, my partner and I went to see NTTD last night and really liked it overall, including the ending. Some of the big set pieces, like the island bridge, were stunning. Craig always looks to me like he's actually fighting for his life in fist fights, not just throwing punches, and I thought there was quite a lot of tension. The plot struck me as particularly ironic given what we've just been through in terms of communicable diseases that may or may not have been leaked from a dodgy lab.

    As a woman, I liked the female characters and indeed, the little girls: young Madeleine was pretty kick-ass (I don't think I'd have been able to shoot a man and drag him through the snow as a young teenager) and Matilde wasn't soppily cute, but rather watchful. One of the problems I've always had with Bond is that the women are so disposable and expendable, although one has to remember that a lot of them were pretty strong characters in their own right, especially in the 60s and 70s. I still have fond memories of Fatima Blush's awesome outfits (as a little girl watching Bond movies, it's as much for the glamour as the action). That expendability is gone here: Paloma obviously is on her own agenda and just walks off, which worked for me.

    I also liked the irony of the bioweapon being a MI6 project (as one reviewer said, did they not think 'what could possibly go wrong?'), liked the sparring with M but also that the film allowed M to reclaim some dignity and also that Bond is pragmatic enough to drop it (he's not in a position to cast aspersions on anyone else's drinking habits, though!). I liked the possibly Mormon double-agent - he was more of a standout character for me than Eye Guy, mainly because clean cut Mid Westerners are usually the hero in these things. Though Nomi was good, and Lea Seydoux showed more of a range than in Spectre. I quite like her sombre demeanour, actually: it has grown on me. Scene at Q's house was pretty funny and Bond's comment about the cats amused me more than the rather cliched quips, which always made me groan, rather like Christmas crackers.

    One of the reasons we booked early, apart from actually finally wanting to see the damn film, was to avoid spoilers and I did, so the ending was a shock. I am tending towards the view that they'll have to do a complete reboot and not mention the death, which is a shame as I like the current MI6 team. The Craig era has not been entirely continuous, however, as Dench's M was a holdover from previous films and did not, for instance, remark "My God, James, you're a shorter, blonder man than you were a few weeks ago!" when Craig walks in instead of Brosnan (IIRC). However, Bond's actual demise is a bigger hurdle and it would look a bit odd if they keep the current team and no-one mentioned it. They could pull a Reichenbach Falls and explain it away (e.g. ground gives way beneath Bond's feet as the first missile hits, precipitates him into underground chamber, shockwave washes him up on a neighbouring island....sure, it's preposterous but no more so than some of his escapes).

    Continuity in these things is weird anyway and it doesn't do to examine it too closely. Original Bond would be about 8 years older than my mum and she's 93, so one has to accept this rolling forward of men with the same name. Peter O'Donnell once addressed this directly - I am a big Modesty Blaise fan and would far rather see a good film of that than a female Bond, by the way - and rewrote Modesty's history as a thought experiment: rather than growing up in the Second World War, he posited that she could have been born during one of the Balkan conflicts instead and followed the timeline from there.

    Anyway, overall, NTTD was definitely a winner for me.

    Thoughtfully written, and I'm glad you were able to see it fresh without spoilers ahead of time. Thank you, @LizW. I'm also female; in addition, I am one of the oldest fans here. I agree with your points, and I like this film VERY much. It will be the most divisive (for longtime Bond fans) of all the films throughout the history of the franchise. Because of the ending, I don't see how one can be "in the middle" for this one. I rank it very highly, and I hope it does great box office. Certainly, it was beautifully filmed and acted. I'm seeing it again in 2 days.

    I can at least certainly see how it ranks as the middle of Craig's entries for some people, but even in those situations I think it'll be a fixture in most top/bottom 5s or so.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    Bond wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    matt_u wrote: »
    This may be the most depressing thread ever. Jesus Christ…

    +1

    Just wait until a journalist joins the forums and we get an article about how us Bond fans are all moaning infants based on the evidence of this thread.... :))

    For what is worth my show yesterday was sold out and at the end everybody cheered in excitement. Perhaps the film is garbage only to some hardcore fans.

    Do audiences like Bond? For years I've read and heard people calling for Bond to end and with Bond being unceremoniously decimated, and seeing people rate this as a great movie, or best Bond ever and to hear people cheering at the end, I have to question if this is more a celebration of thinking this is an end to Bond mores than triumphant appraisal of the movie being THAT good.

    Great point. I think many are applauding the film for killing off the "outdated misogynist white male colonizer" whether they admit it, even to themselves, or not.

    Yes, James will return but in what form? I think folks who are hoping for something closer to the Bond films of yore are going to be sorely disappointed.

    Some have even said (this is likely too far-fetched) that they are setting up Bond's daughter to be his successor and that Paloma will be her "trainer". It sounds crazy but that's par for the course in today's mainstream Hollywood, and I wouldn't place the Bond saga outside that realm of influence.
    I share your pain, but the producers are definitely recasting James Bond next year, not the daughter or another 00 agent as a replacement. Of course it remains to be seen what type of actor they go for when they make their big announcement.
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