NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • edited October 2021 Posts: 3,333
    This is a good point, but easy enough to get around imo. I don’t remember any audience confusion around CR, because it was so different to DAD.

    They could easily do the same again to make the next guy distinct, and signify that this is a different world. Sure, the gunbarrel and the theme music would be the same. But they could cast different MI6 regulars, they could go with a different car brand, they could go with a more heightened “classic” sort of aesthetic to contrast with the Craig era’s realistic one, etc.

    I get where you’re coming from, I do agree that they’ve muddied the waters a bit by unnecessarily cribbing so much from the 60s. But that can be easily rectified imo. And in this day and age, I think audiences will have no trouble grasping the concept of a reboot.
    Hello, my old friend @thelivingroyale.

    I think you're right, it'll all come down to heavy marketing. But they'll need to cast wisely if they're to repeat the same magic formula as both Brosnan and Craig. Go too far leftfield in an attempt to repeat Craig's contentious appointment and it could go badly wrong for them. Without knowing anything about Bond 26, it's hard to say what will happen and whether the same level of interest will be there again.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I admittedly sit on the underwhelmed/disappointed side of the fence over NTTD, but credit were it's due @matt_u mate you're pointing out great things about the film that I hadn't taken in

    Thanks man. Look, I perfectly understand the bitter feeling, but still there's a lot to appreciate even if the bigger picure may be disappointing for some. Perhaps in time, when a new film will come out, this one will start to resonate more for a lot of fans.
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    matt_u wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I admittedly sit on the underwhelmed/disappointed side of the fence over NTTD, but credit were it's due @matt_u mate you're pointing out great things about the film that I hadn't taken in

    Thanks man. Look, I perfectly understand the bitter feeling, but still there's a lot to appreciate even if the bigger picure may be disappointing for some. Perhaps in time, when a new film will come out, this one will start to resonate more for a lot of fans.

    I appreciate that the ending ruined things for me but up until the visit to the Island I thought the film was superb. Would definitely been among my favourite Bond films for the first 2hours plus

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Funniest line: "The desk is definitely the same!"
  • Posts: 8
    Very mixed feelings. The Bond films under Daniel have become almost exclusively about his thuggish Bond to the exclusion of many of the things people admired in the earlier films - notably the effortlessness of Bond. Gun fight scenes just remind me of an extended Game of Doom.
    And where do they go now…. Maybe time to stop unless they have a Bobby Ewing moment and that didn’t really work out that well
  • Posts: 2,160
    I find it really amusing that ‘Wallace & Gromit’ has made it into a Bond film. Big smile when I saw it.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    bondywondy wrote: »
    You can have Bond survive in Bond 26 and he decides not to see Madeleine and Mathilde ever again. He will bring too much pain into their lives so he cuts them out of his life. No emotional bagage. No Bond with family. That's the way to end that subplot.

    All it takes is Barbara Broccoli to say to the screenwriters "Bond isn't dead... let's find a way to bring him back" and Bond comes back.

    It's just James Bond and there's only one James Bond. Not six clones played by six actors. One Bond played by six actors. Conclusion: Craig's Bond is alive and will be played by a new actor.

    See what I mean? 😊

    There is only one James Bond therefore it is impossible for Bond to have died in NTTD. Each Bond film features James Bond. The actors change and the time period moves on but it's still James Bond. There's no alternative reality Bonds (lol). It's always the same guy. If you kill Bond it can never be the same guy again so you establish a paradox. Bond dead but still alive.

    The only alternative is Bond remains alive.

    You know, this won't happen. Bond is not a Marvel Super Hero (or DC hero), never was, never will be. And to make him survive THIS, would really be worse than all the silliness in the Moore era (I actually happen to love Moore's Bond movies). And Conan Doyle's weird solution to Holmes surviving the drop down the Reichenbach falls was clumsy, awkward and silly. And mind you, when he wrote "The Final Problem", he really killed Holmes, as he wanted to get rid off him, and the odd theory how Holmes could survive and Moriarty dying is just lame and unconvincing at best.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Seve wrote: »
    Thanks, I just wish I was in a better position to talk about the actual movie lol!

    All the best, Seve! And take care and remain healthy.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    matt_u wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I admittedly sit on the underwhelmed/disappointed side of the fence over NTTD, but credit were it's due @matt_u mate you're pointing out great things about the film that I hadn't taken in

    Thanks man. Look, I perfectly understand the bitter feeling, but still there's a lot to appreciate even if the bigger picure may be disappointing for some. Perhaps in time, when a new film will come out, this one will start to resonate more for a lot of fans.

    How long did it take until OHMSS was recognized as a worthwhile film, let alone a stand-out entry into the franchise?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    Any small moments or lines or bits that you'd recommend one to keep an eye out for on their first viewing? Just two days to go now, already got a running mental list of things I want to keep a special eye towards when I get to see it.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Any small moments or lines or bits that you'd recommend one to keep an eye out for on their first viewing? Just two days to go now, already got a running mental list of things I want to keep a special eye towards when I get to see it.

    I smiled at Bond pouring himself a drink in his Jamaican home, then follows Nomi into the bedroom and pours another drink from a bottle in the bedroom. Bond covers all bases by having a bottle of whiskey in every room.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    NicNac wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Any small moments or lines or bits that you'd recommend one to keep an eye out for on their first viewing? Just two days to go now, already got a running mental list of things I want to keep a special eye towards when I get to see it.

    I smiled at Bond pouring himself a drink in his Jamaican home, then follows Nomi into the bedroom and pours another drink from a bottle in the bedroom. Bond covers all bases by having a bottle of whiskey in every room.

    That's great, this is the exact sort of thing I'm looking for. From what I've gathered over the last week or so, it seems like the film is packed with a lot of these cool moments and good lines.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Any small moments or lines or bits that you'd recommend one to keep an eye out for on their first viewing? Just two days to go now, already got a running mental list of things I want to keep a special eye towards when I get to see it.

    I smiled at Bond pouring himself a drink in his Jamaican home, then follows Nomi into the bedroom and pours another drink from a bottle in the bedroom. Bond covers all bases by having a bottle of whiskey in every room.

    That's great, this is the exact sort of thing I'm looking for. From what I've gathered over the last week or so, it seems like the film is packed with a lot of these cool moments and good lines.

    For the first 60 minutes or so yes.
  • I_Spy wrote: »
    Interesting to read the alternative perspectives on NTTD. In fact, quite therapeutic.

    After three days of trying to process this, still unable to see past the belief that this is an act of wanton vandalism. Bond the indestructible is one of life’s constants. A psychological safety net. You watch Bond movies secure in the knowledge that he will prevail. If you wanted tragedy you got tickets for Macbeth.

    Now what…?

    Whether it is a hard reboot or a soft reboot.
    Whoever they cast
    Whatever the time zone or universe
    Wherever it is filmed
    Whenever you watch the back catalogue

    You will always KNOW…. ‘Yeah, but he dies in the end’. That cannot now be undone. They have killed THE most sacred of cows.

    I sympathise with everyone who feels angry, exploited and betrayed. I envy those who can shrug it off.
    Totally agree.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,351
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Any small moments or lines or bits that you'd recommend one to keep an eye out for on their first viewing? Just two days to go now, already got a running mental list of things I want to keep a special eye towards when I get to see it.

    Don't know if it is first viewing stuff, as it is pretty minor, but the hat-tips/versions of the hat toss in Moneypenny's office and Q's "Now listen carefully, 007" much later in the film are quite good once you realize that is what they are doing, I thought. The contents of Q's field workbench are take it or leave it funny. I liked it.

    Edit:
    And just out of interest for me, someone said there are monitors with vital signs for both Bond and Nomi and they say "Bond, J." and "Nomi, M.". Wasn't able to confirm this myself, but maybe something to look out for. Should be when Q is on the plane while 007 and 00? are on the final mission.
    NicNac wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Any small moments or lines or bits that you'd recommend one to keep an eye out for on their first viewing? Just two days to go now, already got a running mental list of things I want to keep a special eye towards when I get to see it.

    I smiled at Bond pouring himself a drink in his Jamaican home, then follows Nomi into the bedroom and pours another drink from a bottle in the bedroom. Bond covers all bases by having a bottle of whiskey in every room.

    I think the first one is Blackwell rum and he picks up two glasses, but by the time he has one filled, Nomi is already on her way out of the room, so he just necks it and goes to his backup bar. Liked that as well.

  • Posts: 2,160
    @ImpertinentGoon I can confirm the Nomi, M.... as I looked for it too. Yep in that spot.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 692
    For the people complaining about negative fan reaction to NTTD, including from those like me who haven't (and won't) see it, well, maybe Eon shouldn't have done something so extreme and divisive. The Bond fanbase is now going the Star Wars route, but that's not because of the fans, it's because of out-of-touch and careless producers who think they have a right to piss people off and not face backlash. How about this: just make a good movie that satisfies everyone? It's actually not difficult. They've been doing it for decades. They did it as recently as CR. There is simply no excuse for the decision Eon made.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Bond movies are not solely and foremost - or exclusively - aimed at Bond fans, as much as we would like this idea. The movies are and were all intended for the average movie goers. And MGW and BB do not owe us anything, there is no moral responsibility they must take care of. James Bond is a fictional character created by a man, who died in 1964. And we don't live in the 1950's or 1960's, probably few of us had been living in these times. And there is not OMNE movie Bond, we had 6 of them so far and will have a seventh in 2-3 years. Within the movie, Bond's death makes sense, as Craig's Bond is not Connery's Bond (who would be out of service for age reasons), the movie Bond was not the Bond of the Fleming novels.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,963
    slide_99 wrote: »
    For the people complaining about negative fan reaction to NTTD, including from those like me who haven't (and won't) see it, well, maybe Eon shouldn't have done something so extreme and divisive. The Bond fanbase is now going the Star Wars route, but that's not because of the fans, it's because of out-of-touch and careless producers who think they have a right to piss people off and not face backlash. How about this: just make a good movie that satisfies everyone? It's actually not difficult. They've been doing it for decades. They did it as recently as CR. There is simply no excuse for the decision Eon made.

    Not everyone loves every single installment equally, though. It's impossible to make a film that satisfies everyone, in this series or beyond.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    @matt_u Yes, I loved that transition too! What a shame that the rest of the main title sequence was soo dull, probably the weakest one by Kleinman so far.

    I can barely remember it..!
  • TheQueensPeaceTheQueensPeace That's Classified
    Posts: 74
    perhaps kleinman felt like many viewers: amazing opening but dammit how to follow that and why go this route? i do not blame him for peaking with skyfall, much like the craig era and perhaps bond in its entirety, forever
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 692
    And MGW and BB do not owe us anything, there is no moral responsibility they must take care of.

    They owe the fans something very basic, and that is a movie that doesn't anger people. Like what was quoted a few posts up, this simply reeks of vandalism. And since BB and MGW didn't invent Bond, I actually don't think they have a right to do anything they want with the character.

    They could have made a movie where Craig's Bond saved the world and lived. Fans and general audiences alike are satisfied. There's no downside to that. But they chose an ending that they knew would anger people, and after the disasters that the Star Wars sequels were, they should have known better.
  • Posts: 7,507
    slide_99 wrote: »
    For the people complaining about negative fan reaction to NTTD, including from those like me who haven't (and won't) see it, well, maybe Eon shouldn't have done something so extreme and divisive. The Bond fanbase is now going the Star Wars route, but that's not because of the fans, it's because of out-of-touch and careless producers who think they have a right to piss people off and not face backlash. How about this: just make a good movie that satisfies everyone? It's actually not difficult. They've been doing it for decades. They did it as recently as CR. There is simply no excuse for the decision Eon made.

    Except CR didn't satisfy everyone. It is the only thing we know for certain: No Bond film will ever be universally liked. And looking at currebt box office numbers, the "repercussion" has been entirely positive.
  • I hate to say it but for some fans, maybe the franchise has run it's course which is sad.

    With regard to NTTD being Bonds Last Jedi, can't see this as the fan base isn't as big & EON don't have a production line of movies like Disney which disgruntled fans could boycott or effect, by the time Bond 26 gets to the cinema a lot of people I'm affraid will have forgotten all about this movie & just view Bond 26 as the new Bond, so lets go see it.
  • TheQueensPeaceTheQueensPeace That's Classified
    Posts: 74
    zimmer was DEFINITELY off his game for this one. Oh the missed opp! The guy excelled AT naval themed super heroic themes. But aside from a few quick goosebump riffs? cut and paste dark knight B list tracks imho and in any event now blurred by THAT ending so even if Zimmer does get me roused up..it dampens in seconds knowing Bond is toast.
  • Bueno1694Bueno1694 My James Bond Games' Playthroughs: linktr.ee/Xtreemo
    Posts: 70
    All right, we all talked a lot about Bond's death here but let's take a different route for a while.

    What about Mathilde? What a cute baby that poor thing is. :x They nailed it on the casting choice!
  • TheQueensPeaceTheQueensPeace That's Classified
    edited October 2021 Posts: 74
    there will be more bond films. for sure. going concern. But this feels like Dalton said post licence to kill: 'it feels like the last one'. And I for one feel jolted out of loving 007 by NTTD. Yes, here I am venting on a Bond messenger forum ok. But even so, perhaps everything has its 'time' and I as 41 year old man had to grow up and 007 dying = catalyst. The sheen of fantasy, calculated risk, patriotic reward and relentless drive..gone. Blofeld must be behind it all ;)
  • Posts: 82
    There’s no definitive version of any of the characters. It makes for an infinitely mutable world where any combination of the various elements of any of the books and films can be explored by the filmmakers, the only proviso being whether it works on screen. And how things work on screen is not like in the real world, fairly obviously. Looking for Aristotelian unities is pointless. It would be exceedingly boring if they’d only ever tried to make the same film again. And the series would have finished about 45 years ago. I say bravo to all involved, however painful the process and results can be. You can’t stand in the same stream twice.
  • I do agree that it feels like an insult to a lot of Bond fans. There's no denying the emotional investment that many people have with Bond, probably stretching back to their childhoods. A key element of Bond is that he always escapes alive. It's a constant that you can rely on. This seems like an unnecessary slap in the face when they could easily have left some ambiguity.
  • muzz100 wrote: »
    however painful the process and results can be. You can’t stand in the same stream twice.

    However If you die in the stream you'll never experience another.
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