Coronavirus Discussion

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2020 Posts: 24,159
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs
    I believe you're right about the handshaking. Some--let's be frank: minor--things will definitely go out of style. But I also believe our society will renormalize. We're creatures of habit who, no matter what's happened, can easily forget.

    After 9/11, the world was going to change dramatically, or so people predicted. And yet, close to home, for most people it didn't. Sure, there's tighter security at the airports now and we still remember those days like they happened yesterday, but people keep using public transportation to commute, they still go to sports events and theatres and whatnot, and most of us are smart enough not to randomly shun Muslims for fear that they might be terrorists. Many of the predictions from back in the day about how we would be living in fear for the rest of our lives, about how our economies would bleed for decades to come... proved wrong.

    That is because we want to let things renormalize. And we're social beings. We like to hang out. We know that we're sitting ducks in movie theatres but even after the Dark Knight Rises shooting, we kept going. Despite ugly things happening, we're back after a week, a month, a year... There really is an "old normal". Even in Europe, many people managed to pick that old normal up after WWII. Minor changes are inevitable; I'd even say they're probably good. But we're resilient in more ways than people can imagine. We're easily frightened, but we can also easily forget.

    At some point, there will be a vaccine. By then, most of us will have left the worst behind them. Even if the infection rates drop to near-zero, we will still read about new cases, but over time, they will affect us less and less. Then the newspapers will stop reporting them. It'll just be like another madman knifing some people in the streets. "That's terrible," we'll say, and for two minutes we will hope it'll never happen to us, and then we move on.

    Corona will not be forgotten, but that's not the same thing as letting it control our lives. It will become a big issue in many democratic elections across the globe. Some economies will pick themselves up fast, and some won't. Some people will publish factual books about the crisis, others will incorporate it into their fiction. Kids will be born who didn't experience any of it; it'll be a story they hear about in school and at home, and they will care no more or less about it than they will about the holocaust, the plague, the Gulf wars, 9/11, ...

    Indeed, we will focus on certain things a tad more, like washing our hands, staying home when we feel ill (although...) and perhaps telling people to please mind what they're doing when we catch them coughing things up in a public place. Those are not really new things when you think about it, but we'll just be taking them to new levels. When people say that Corona will stay with us for a very long time, I see no reason to disagree. It will. But gradually more and more as an event, as a "remember when?", as a cautionary tale, as the cause for things that happened close to you, perhaps to you. But there will be a new normal not significantly different from the old normal.

    We will, of course, demand that virology labs be given more means to better anticipate the next outbreak and be prepared this time like we could have been now if budgets hadn't been cut short for less meaningful purposes. The next big issue to deal with probably won't be a virus. It'll be something else. And we'll learn to deal with that too.
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs
    I believe you're right about the handshaking. Some--let's be frank: minor--things will definitely go out of style. But I also believe our society will renormalize. We're creatures of habit who, no matter what's happened, can easily forget.

    After 9/11, the world was going to change dramatically, or so people predicted. And yet, close to home, for most people it didn't. Sure, there's tighter security at the airports now and we still remember those days like they happened yesterday, but people keep using public transportation to commute, they still go to sports events and theatres and whatnot, and most of us are smart enough not to randomly shun Muslims for fear that they might be terrorists. Many of the predictions from back in the day about how we would be living in fear for the rest of our lives, about how our economies would bleed for decades to come... proved wrong.

    That is because we want to let things renormalize. And we're social beings. We like to hang out. We know that we're sitting ducks in movie theatres but even after the Dark Knight Rises shooting, we kept going. Despite ugly things happening, we're back after a week, a month, a year... There really is an "old normal". Even in Europe, many people managed to pick that old normal up after WWII. Minor changes are inevitable; I'd even say they're probably good. But we're resilient in more ways than people can imagine. We're easily frightened, but we can also easily forget.

    At some point, there will be a vaccine. By then, most of us will have left the worst behind them. Even if the infection rates drop to near-zero, we will still read about new cases, but over time, they will affect us less and less. Then the newspapers will stop reporting them. It'll just be like another madman knifing some people in the streets. "That's terrible," we'll say, and for two minutes we will hope it'll never happen to us, and then we move on.

    Corona will not be forgotten, but that's not the same thing as letting it control our lives. It will become a big issue in many democratic elections across the globe. Some economies will pick themselves up fast, and some won't. Some people will publish factual books about the crisis, others will incorporate it into their fiction. Kids will be born who didn't experience any of it; it'll be a story they hear about in school and at home, and they will care no more or less about it than they will about the holocaust, the plague, the Gulf wars, 9/11, ...

    Indeed, we will focus on certain things a tad more, like washing our hands, staying home when we feel ill (although...) and perhaps telling people to please mind what they're doing when we catch them coughing things up in a public place. Those are not really new things when you think about it, but we'll just be taking them to new levels. When people say that Corona will stay with us for a very long time, I see no reason to disagree. It will. But gradually more and more as an event, as a "remember when?", as a cautionary tale, as the cause for things that happened close to you, perhaps to you. But there will be a new normal not significantly different from the old normal.

    We will, of course, demand that virology labs be given more means to better anticipate the next outbreak and be prepared this time like we could have been now if budgets hadn't been cut short for less meaningful purposes. The next big issue to deal with probably won't be a virus. It'll be something else. And we'll learn to deal with that too.

    I also wonder if it will have an impact on our working lives. Maybe working from home will also become a new normal for a lot of people. Environmentalists will no doubt point to it as a way that we can reduce our carbon emissions. Indeed, if this amount of people can truly do their work from home is there a need to have all that traffic on our roads? Road accidents would also decrease - less cars on the road would mean that accidents are less likely to happen. Imagine if an employee has a reason to want to work from home for some or part of the week - they can always point to how it was possible and worked during this crisis. People would also save money on their commuting - especially on rail in the UK which is exorbitant.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    There’s nothing being done to prepare us for the next pandemic. We’re literally sitting ducks waiting to get hit. It happened before back in 2002, killing more than 700 people. As we’ve seen from the Coronavirus, a contagious disease can develop in a blink of an eye and spread like wildfire. It isn’t the last pandemic, if anything, it’s the first warning bell for the next deadly pandemic. I believe most people will have caught the virus before a vaccine is readily available. In some parts of the world many people personally know another person who's got COVID19. It's not too far from the doorstep of any person.

    If truly it's abated by the summer heat it will remain in the bodies of asymptomatic carriers and pets without a means of propagation. Giving it ample time to mutate into something slightly different and potentially more virulent and reappear when cold weather hits the northern hemisphere. Only time will tell. But I hope for a better scenario.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    I also wonder if it will have an impact on our working lives. Maybe working from home will also become a new normal for a lot of people. Environmentalists will no doubt point to it as a way that we can reduce our carbon emissions. Indeed, if this amount of people can truly do their work from home is there a need to have all that traffic on our roads? Road accidents would also decrease - less cars on the road would mean that accidents are less likely to happen. Imagine if an employee has a reason to want to work from home for some or part of the week - they can always point to how it was possible and worked during this crisis. People would also save money on their commuting - especially on rail in the UK which is exorbitant.

    I'm really hoping we will, indeed, explore and exploit those opportunities, @BonSimonLeBon_1. You've summed up nicely how a few good intentions could easily lead to many positive results.

    Take education for example. I was into the whole "flipping the classroom" thing way before this crisis. I had already recorded many of my 1-hour lessons as 12-minute video's. (Without interruptions from the students and with the opportunity for them to "rewind", that's actually a surprisingly easy thing to do.) As such, long-distance-teaching isn't so hard for me to do right now. I tell my students to watch a video, they ask questions via online forums in case something isn't entirely clear, then I tell them to solve some problems and upload their solutions and then I give them feedback on those. It works rather well. And I have an easier time now diversifying amongst my students, making the program more "taylored to the student" as it were. Now, imagine if, after this crisis, we could continue that way. I understand that the "social aspect" of school would then be lost. But we could cut at least some of our home-school traffic, if not in full. We could better organize things and downsize the crowds that tend to overpopulate our schools. I also see problems, of course, like how to avoid youngsters from hanging out in places where they shouldn't be while they should be working on their assignments. But I'm optimistic that good things could come from this. After all, I do honestly believe that in some future, a school building won't be the centre of our educational system anymore. Perhaps those who still really need the closer contact with a teacher or with peers will then find the space for that in a re-organized school building and more time will be dedicated to them while other students are, at least during some of their schooltime, following a more digital route, for example from home.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,276
    There has never been a successful vaccine found for a coronavirus. Not yet. While I hope that the resources being thrown at it now will ultimately yield a vaccine, the most important thing at the moment is to slow down the spread of the virus. Namely, stay home if you can!

    That way, hospitals can focus on treatment, and the longer the disease is spread out, the better treatment they can give to each patient.
  • Posts: 4,603
    "We’re literally sitting ducks" :)
  • Posts: 628
    patb wrote: »
    "We’re literally sitting ducks" :)

    This reminds me of when a co-worker remarked that it was literally raining cats and dogs outside. I spit out my coffee.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Even the literal isn't literally literal nowadays... :(
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 1,314
    It’s eye opening and that’s for sure. I don’t want rock back to 5 days a week in an office. I know now that much

    Regarding home education @DarthDimi though I disagree to an extent there. You can’t learn collaboration in teams as spontaneously or helping others or generating ideas together as well at home on your own. All these skills are so important in the work place and through life. Most of the education methods I like are where the children contribute to their learning and shape their own lessons to an extent.

    Also school in the uk form an integral part of the community beyond education. Free school Meals for disadvantaged children, safeguarding for vulnerable children etc. And it’s a more level playing field in terms of access to equipment etc. Not everyone has a laptop or even paper and pens.

    But I do hope we remove the things that are unnecessary after all this. I mean really most of us don’t need to travel to a place of work 5 days a week at the expense of our sanity.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Matt007 wrote: »
    It’s eye opening and that’s for sure. I don’t want rock back to 5 days a week in an office. I know now that much

    Regarding home education @DarthDimi though I disagree to an extent there. You can’t learn collaboration in teams as spontaneously or helping others or generating ideas together as well at home on your own. All these skills are so important in the work place and through life. Most of the education methods I like are where the children contribute to their learning and shape their own lessons to an extent.

    Also school in the uk form an integral part of the community beyond education. Free school Meals for disadvantaged children, safeguarding for vulnerable children etc. And it’s a more level playing field in terms of access to equipment etc. Not everyone has a laptop or even paper and pens.

    But I do hope we remove the things that are unnecessary after all this. I mean really most of us don’t need to travel to a place of work 5 days a week at the expense of our sanity.

    @Matt007
    Yes, you're right. I agree that there are many issues involved which have to be resolved first.

    Our school has provided material to kids who live in poverty, including laptops and more. We mustn't ever forget about those students.

    You're also correct about collaboration and other skills. That is incredibly important. I myself come from a school system entirely focused on individual learning with only rarely a group assignment. Suddenly, in college, I had to learn to work with people. That was a weakness.

    So I completely agree with you: we cannot entirely rely on long-distance learning. But perhaps there are avenues which we can explore to step away from traditional schooling, finding opportunities which, hopefully, can be made beneficial to all.
  • Also to point out, it's interesting isn't it how managers and people higher up have for years been using this model of working from home and working in the office through the week - why this isn't common across the workforce for those who are able is beyond me. The boss in our workplace is only in the office 2-3 days a week and then works at home the rest of the time. Why should his working pattern be different to others just because he's higher up?
  • Also to point out, it's interesting isn't it how managers and people higher up have for years been using this model of working from home and working in the office through the week - why this isn't common across the workforce for those who are able is beyond me. The boss in our workplace is only in the office 2-3 days a week and then works at home the rest of the time. Why should his working pattern be different to others just because he's higher up?

    Because what good is power if you can't use it arbitrarily?
  • Posts: 1,314
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Matt007 wrote: »
    It’s eye opening and that’s for sure. I don’t want rock back to 5 days a week in an office. I know now that much

    Regarding home education @DarthDimi though I disagree to an extent there. You can’t learn collaboration in teams as spontaneously or helping others or generating ideas together as well at home on your own. All these skills are so important in the work place and through life. Most of the education methods I like are where the children contribute to their learning and shape their own lessons to an extent.

    Also school in the uk form an integral part of the community beyond education. Free school Meals for disadvantaged children, safeguarding for vulnerable children etc. And it’s a more level playing field in terms of access to equipment etc. Not everyone has a laptop or even paper and pens.

    But I do hope we remove the things that are unnecessary after all this. I mean really most of us don’t need to travel to a place of work 5 days a week at the expense of our sanity.

    @Matt007
    Yes, you're right. I agree that there are many issues involved which have to be resolved first.

    Our school has provided material to kids who live in poverty, including laptops and more. We mustn't ever forget about those students.

    You're also correct about collaboration and other skills. That is incredibly important. I myself come from a school system entirely focused on individual learning with only rarely a group assignment. Suddenly, in college, I had to learn to work with people. That was a weakness.

    So I completely agree with you: we cannot entirely rely on long-distance learning. But perhaps there are avenues which we can explore to step away from traditional schooling, finding opportunities which, hopefully, can be made beneficial to all.

    Yep for sure. Will be interesting how the world looks. I also hope there is a new found respect for educators!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    Respect for everyone, @Matt007. Nurses, doctors, the many people who kept the food stores full, the police, firemen, ... I might even go so far as to say: respect for journalists. But I'm not ready for that yet. ;)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    This just in: Stupid people do stupid things.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,045
    Been out today and some people just don't seem to care about Covid - 19 and are making zero effort with regards to social distancing and risk assessing. I find myself constantly having to tell people to watch where they are going. ~X(
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Respect for everyone, @Matt007. Nurses, doctors, the many people who kept the food stores full, the police, firemen, ... I might even go so far as to say: respect for journalists. But I'm not ready for that yet. ;)

    I'm an 'essential' food store worker, and I respect the journalists that risk their livelihood for reporting the truth. I face hundreds of people all day that may infect me, but news dudes face an even greater threat in this era of 'truth-hatred'. Fox News is safe from that.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    chrisisall wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Respect for everyone, @Matt007. Nurses, doctors, the many people who kept the food stores full, the police, firemen, ... I might even go so far as to say: respect for journalists. But I'm not ready for that yet. ;)

    I'm an 'essential' food store worker, and I respect the journalists that risk their livelihood for reporting the truth. I face hundreds of people all day that may infect me, but news dudes face an even greater threat in this era of 'truth-hatred'. Fox News is safe from that.

    You are among the true heroes, @chrisisall. I mean that! I've seen hoarders go rampant in stores, giving food store workers not even a decent chance to get things unpacked. Those were insane things to behold; they repulsed me. And still, food store workers never went on strike or decided to quit. Respect.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    About half of all workers worldwide are in danger of having their livelihoods destroyed because of the pandemic, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) has warned.

    The figure equates to more than 1.5 billion people.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/half-of-worlds-workers-at-immediate-risk-of-losing-livelihood-due-to-coronavirus
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    About half of all workers worldwide are in danger of having their livelihoods destroyed because of the pandemic, the International Labour Organisation (ILO) has warned.

    The figure equates to more than 1.5 billion people.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/29/half-of-worlds-workers-at-immediate-risk-of-losing-livelihood-due-to-coronavirus

    Sadly, a pandemic never happens in a tragedy vacuum. The cascade effect of it all leads to a linear sequence of disasters. I truly hope we can all work together to help each other where possible.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    This past week, 3.3 million US citizens registered to claim unemployment benefits. This is the all-time highest unemployment rate in US history. The previous record was set in 1982, when unemployment claims hit 695,000.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52050426

    As feared, the global economy will be left in very, very bad shape from the coronavirus.
    The US has once again obliterated their all-time highest unemployment rate, as this past week 6.6 million US citizens registered to claim unemployment benefits.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/02/economy/unemployment-benefits-coronavirus/index.html
    A further 6.6 million US citizens have filed for unemployment benefits this past week. That makes for a total of 16 million jobs lost in the United States in the past 3 weeks. For comparison, the 2008 financial crisis accounted for a total 9 million jobs lost, over a much longer period (18 months).
    Another 5.5 million US citizens have filed for unemployment benefits this past week. There is now a total of nearly 22 million jobs lost in the United States in the last month. This is nearly 32 times than the previous highest unemployment rate in U.S. history (695,000 jobless citizens in 1982).

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/jobless-claims-hovered-at-5-2-million-last-week-over-21-million-have-filed-for-unemployment-in-pandemic
    Another 4.4 million US citizens have filed for unemployment benefits this past week. There is now a total of of 26.4 million jobs lost in the United States since the coronavirus outbreak begun. This means that more than 15% of the U.S. workforce are now unemployed. This is nearly 38 more times more than the previous highest unemployment rate in U.S. history.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52398837

    A further 3.8 million US citizens have filed for unemployment benefits this past week. There is now a total of over 30 million jobs lost in the United States since the coronavirus outbreak begun. This is over 43 times bigger than the previous highest unemployment rate in U.S. history (695,000 jobless citizens in 1982).

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/30/us-weekly-jobless-claims.html
  • Posts: 17,740
    Events gathering up to 50 people can be held in public places from 7 May, the Norwegian Minister of Health announced today.

    Events are allowed where it is possible to keep a distance of at least one meter between people who are not from the same household, and the events must have a responsible event organiser who has an overview of who is present.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    1st death from coronavirus: January 9th.
    100 deaths reached on January 27th (18 days later).
    500 deaths reached on February 5th (9 days later).
    1,000 deaths reached on February 10th (5 days later).
    5,000 deaths reached on March 13th (32 days later).
    10,000 deaths reached on March 19th (6 days later).
    15,000 deaths reached on March 23rd (4 days later).
    20,000 deaths reached on March 25th (2 days later).
    25,000 deaths reached on March 27th (2 days later).
    30,000 deaths reached on March 28th (1 day later).
    35,000 deaths reached on March 30th (2 days later).
    40,000 deaths reached on March 31st (1 day later).
    45,000 deaths reached on April 1st (1 day later).
    50,000 deaths reached on April 2nd (1 day later).
    60,000 deaths reached on April 4th (2 days later).
    70,000 deaths reached on April 6th (2 days later).
    80,000 deaths reached on April 7th (1 day later).
    90,000 deaths reached on April 9th (2 days later).
    100,000 deaths reached on April 10th (1 day later).
    110,000 deaths reached on April 12th (2 days later).
    120,000 deaths reached on April 14th (2 days later).
    130,000 deaths reached on April 15th (1 day later).
    140,000 deaths reached on April 16th (1 day later).
    150,000 deaths reached on April 17th (1 day later).
    160,000 deaths reached on April 18th (1 day later).
    170,000 deaths reached on April 20th (2 days later).
    180,000 deaths reached on April 21st (1 day later).
    190,000 deaths reached on April 23rd (2 days later).
    200,000 deaths reached on April 24th (1 day later).
    210,000 deaths reached on April 26th (2 days later).
    220,000 deaths reached on April 28th (2 days later).
    230,000 deaths reached on April 30th (2 days later).
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,838
    @BeatlesSansEarMuffs. Per my earlier posting about the role that the New York City transit system may have played in spreading COVID-19, Gov. Cuomo and Mayor DeBlasio have just announced that they are closing the New York City Subway system each day between the hours of 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM. During those hours the train cars and stations will be disinfected. This “every 24-hour” cleaning is a significant mark up from the prior policy of cleaning them every 72 hours.

    In addition to increasing the frequency of cleaning, it is hoped that this will give advocates a better chance to refer the homeless to available shelters and temporary hotel housing. With ridership down by 90%, this issue of the homeless on the subways was becoming a major issue – especially since “essential workers” (nurses, grocery store clerks, etc..) still rely on public transit to get to work.

    I also want to thank @chrisisall. Its somewhat ironic that grocery store employees, take-out delivery drivers are emerging as “un-sung” heroes, given that many people either take them for granted or (worse) look down on them. Here in the U.S. anytime there is a call to pay them more, certain politicians disparage their work as trivial or somehow “beneath them”. The COVID-19 crisis, however, finds their efforts being the glue that often holds entire neighborhoods together. Will their efforts be noted when this is over? Will they finally be respected? I hope so, but human nature being what it is……
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    Dwayne wrote: »
    @BeatlesSansEarMuffs. Per my earlier posting about the role that the New York City transit system may have played in spreading COVID-19, Gov. Cuomo and Mayor DeBlasio have just announced that they are closing the New York City Subway system each day between the hours of 1:00 AM to 5:00 AM. During those hours the train cars and stations will be disinfected. This “every 24-hour” cleaning is a significant mark up from the prior policy of cleaning them every 72 hours.

    In addition to increasing the frequency of cleaning, it is hoped that this will give advocates a better chance to refer the homeless to available shelters and temporary hotel housing. With ridership down by 90%, this issue of the homeless on the subways was becoming a major issue – especially since “essential workers” (nurses, grocery store clerks, etc..) still rely on public transit to get to work.

    I also want to thank @chrisisall. Its somewhat ironic that grocery store employees, take-out delivery drivers are emerging as “un-sung” heroes, given that many people either take them for granted or (worse) look down on them. Here in the U.S. anytime there is a call to pay them more, certain politicians disparage their work as trivial or somehow “beneath them”. The COVID-19 crisis, however, finds their efforts being the glue that often holds entire neighborhoods together. Will their efforts be noted when this is over? Will they finally be respected? I hope so, but human nature being what it is……

    Given that everything is closed where I live, and the rare supermarkets have long queues to get in to inforce social distancing, I've been ordering a lot of take out food since the lockdown started. I have generously tipped every single delivery driver and thanked them for their service. It's not much, but hopefully such workers will know they are greatly appreciated.
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 3,566
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    Wikipedia is our friend. You can find lots of references to balm from Gilead in the Bible and Wikipedia will tell you about them if you look. For me, though, the first reference I ever remember hearing about B from G is from "The Raven" by Edgar Allen Poe: ' "Is there—is there balm in Gilead?—tell me—tell me, I implore!" Quoth the Raven "Nevermore." ' I use the quote in this context because the drug described here is the product of a company called Gilead Sciences.
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