Coronavirus Discussion

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  • Posts: 12,837
    Feeling a bit better about things today. Happy with the £330 billion pledged by the government for businesses. Loans, not grants unfortunately, but giving that much away in grants seems like it'd cause economic damage, they'll have to make it up somehow. And it'll at least go some way for helping businesses (and therefore jobs) in what's sure to be a pretty dire economic crisis. So, good start imo, fair play to them for that one.

    Now I'm waiting for them to announce more to help individuals. Our statutory sick pay wouldn't even cover some people's rent and then there's 0 hour contracts etc. Mortgage payments and evictions should definitely be suspended while this is going on. I'm hoping for daily announcements as they get more on top of things and decide on what action they're taking.

    If any good will come of this, it's that this crisis is essentially going to force governments into democratic socialist style support imo. It's really highlighting the flaws in America's healthcare system for example, with even right wing figures arguing for free testing etc. Hopefully when all is said and done we'll be able to see the advantages of those sort of systems. As much as I was making fun last night of the idea of Blitz spirit etc, it is reminiscent of the Second World War in a way. Efforts to rebuild the country after that led to the NHS. We're only ever one big crisis away from needing these systems. We need to protect the ones we have and argue for the ones we don't imo.

    @DarthDimi @Benny Okay, I get what you mean now. No point arguing when we're all in this together etc. But civil comments on the politics involved is alright then? As with any crisis on this scale politics is going to play a large part in the outcome. There are reports saying that my government's original herd immunity plan could have caused over 250,000 deaths. I know it's not politics in the sense of left vs right, but the idea of what course to take, minimising economic damage or loss of life, is a political issue right?

    Not trying to cause an argument, just trying to get a handle on what I can say on this thread. If I say anything over the line then I'm genuinely sorry and please let me know.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    There is a huge potential problem that few people are considering....

    What if coronavirus remains active, never goes away? Flu has never been eradicated, kills around 50 - 60 thousand people per year even with vaccines. Are we all going to remain in near permanent lock down, not going out much? That would be crazy.

    I think the governments of the world, WHO and other health authorties may have created an even bigger problem than cr! If the virus is still active in November what happens to all the delayed films? What happens to all the service industries that have had suffered during the spring and summer months? What happens to the airline industry, to the share prices of major corps? What happens to all the jobs that have been put on hold, all the salaries, all the people that need to keep working to pay their rent and mortgage?

    We're all playing with major fire here if the virus is not contained or in reverse after summer. At some point the travel bans will have to be lifted with or without coronavirus because the world economy cannot operate under such strict restrictions. For example, you can't expect Italians to remain under curfew for months. The reaction to coronavirus - even if it's well-intentioned - may turn out to be a catastrophic mistake. It might be better to leave cr alone, some people will die but others will be immune to it. Long term that makes more sense than the world economy collapsing due to crazy restrictions. People die from the flu - there is no world panic. We may have to adopt the same mindset with cornavirus if there is no dramatic fall in cases and no feasible vaccine.

    The best way forward is to drop all restrictions and invest in huge scanning machines at all airports, seaports and any other areas of entry. Every person entering a country has to have a cr scan and if they get the negative result they have to be put in self isolation. That makes more sense than long term travel bans and other restrictions.

    You cannot allow the service sector of a country to collapse. It will be catastrophic for hundreds or millions of people, their jobs, their mortgages/rent, their child care the list goes on and on. We live in a capitalist world. If you break that system you're screwed. We're playing with fire, folks. Forget coronavirus, the world economy might be at even greater risk. Hopefully this scenario won't happen but it's possible. Just pointing this out. I try to be brutally honest rather than just say what's politically correct. We all want the virus to end asap but we have to think of the longer term ramifications.

    There is a lesson to be learned, here. I am interested to find out (but not optimistic) that it will be learned: that demand drives the economy, not supply. And to foster demand means to take care of the masses. I can see that what concerns you most is money, not people's safety. And it is this very thinking that has caused this catastrophe in the first place.

    What "Capitalists" never seem to figure out is that it is their own greed, short-sightedness, and worship of money that ALWAYS brings about disaster. ALWAYS.




  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

    The sooner people in the US realize Big Pharma has been doing this kind of thing for a long time, the sooner they'll want to switch to M4A.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Feeling a bit better about things today. Happy with the £330 billion pledged by the government for businesses. Loans, not grants unfortunately, but giving that much away in grants seems like it'd cause economic damage, they'll have to make it up somehow. ,
    ...
    I may not have followed Boris Johnson as closely as you have, but did he really promise GBP 330 BILLION? Sounds a little luxurious, even in present circumstances...
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    edited March 2020 Posts: 3,126
    Time to start the communist revolution I guess the USSR is the template throw those capitalists and our freedom into the gulags. Waiting for the mods to start cleaning.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

    The sooner people in the US realize Big Pharma has been doing this kind of thing for a long time, the sooner they'll want to switch to M4A.

    You may have read that in the article you linked to yourself, but that guy has opted for donating his stock of sanitizer since... probably to avoid the charges of price gouging. My sympathy is definitely limited. Just like with the guys who tried to sell ten face masks on amazon.de for a paltry EUR 999.00.

    Anyway, what is M4A? I mean...it's not about the Apple file type, is it?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2020 Posts: 8,179
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

    The sooner people in the US realize Big Pharma has been doing this kind of thing for a long time, the sooner they'll want to switch to M4A.

    You may have read that in the article you linked to yourself, but that guy has opted for donating his stock of sanitizer since... probably to avoid the charges of price gouging. My sympathy is definitely limited. Just like with the guys who tried to sell ten face masks on amazon.de for a paltry EUR 999.00.

    Anyway, what is M4A? I mean...it's not about the Apple file type, is it?

    He was actually forced to donate.

    https://www.today.com/news/brothers-who-hoarded-17-700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-forced-donate-t176028

    M4A is short for Medicare for All

    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Time to start the communist revolution I guess the USSR is the template throw those capitalists and our freedom into the gulags. Waiting for the mods to start cleaning.

    @007Blofeld There’s other options than starting another USSR.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

    The sooner people in the US realize Big Pharma has been doing this kind of thing for a long time, the sooner they'll want to switch to M4A.

    You may have read that in the article you linked to yourself, but that guy has opted for donating his stock of sanitizer since... probably to avoid the charges of price gouging. My sympathy is definitely limited. Just like with the guys who tried to sell ten face masks on amazon.de for a paltry EUR 999.00.

    Anyway, what is M4A? I mean...it's not about the Apple file type, is it?

    He was actually forced to donate.

    https://www.today.com/news/brothers-who-hoarded-17-700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-forced-donate-t176028

    M4A is short for Medicare for All

    Ah, thanks for the clarification! It was my impression that he was forced to donate...rightfully so. I had just never encountered the abbreviation M4A in that context...in spite of being aware of the political discussion.
  • The Black Widow news is depressing (the film I was looking forward to seeing the most this year besides NTTD) yet funny in a way because the main cinema I go to (VUE) closed today indefinitely because of the virus!

    This is all sodding depressing. Culture and life might as well stop until next year now.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    He Has 17,700 Bottles of Hand Sanitizer and Nowhere to Sell Them

    The sooner people in the US realize Big Pharma has been doing this kind of thing for a long time, the sooner they'll want to switch to M4A.

    You may have read that in the article you linked to yourself, but that guy has opted for donating his stock of sanitizer since... probably to avoid the charges of price gouging. My sympathy is definitely limited. Just like with the guys who tried to sell ten face masks on amazon.de for a paltry EUR 999.00.

    Anyway, what is M4A? I mean...it's not about the Apple file type, is it?

    He was actually forced to donate.

    https://www.today.com/news/brothers-who-hoarded-17-700-bottles-hand-sanitizer-forced-donate-t176028

    M4A is short for Medicare for All

    Ah, thanks for the clarification! It was my impression that he was forced to donate...rightfully so. I had just never encountered the abbreviation M4A in that context...in spite of being aware of the political discussion.

    For sure. I get into political discussions elsewhere where the abbreviation is used, whereas at MI6 I typically avoid such dicussions. Hell, I never even opened the Brexit thread, I'm pretty sure that's a doozy.
  • DeerAtTheGatesDeerAtTheGates Belgium
    Posts: 524
    Watched prime minister Abe of Japan say that the Olympic Games are still planned for this summer, and that he sees them as a way of celebrating our victory on the coronavirus.

    I honestly have no idea if he can keep those promises, but there’s something weirdly beautiful and touching about the Olympics as a sign of hope and light in the world. Let’s hope that by summer, this pandemic has been fought and the Games can go on.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Watched prime minister Abe of Japan say that the Olympic Games are still planned for this summer, and that he sees them as a way of celebrating our victory on the coronavirus.

    I honestly have no idea if he can keep those promises, but there’s something weirdly beautiful and touching about the Olympics as a sign of hope and light in the world. Let’s hope that by summer, this pandemic has been fought and the Games can go on.

    I'd wager the Olympics will go the way of the Euro 2020...which, if they're lucky, will be the Euro 2021.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited March 2020 Posts: 12,480
    The Olympics in Tokyo should definitely be postponed until next year. It is NOT safe for anybody; athletes or visitors. I have no doubt that it should be postponed for a long time ... and I hope it is announced soon (for the athletes' sakes).

    Here is news on Belgium:
  • edited March 2020 Posts: 12,837
    Mortgage payments suspended too apparently. We're getting there. Be nice if they could do the same for renters. A temporary Universal Basic Income is starting to seem like a must to be honest. Nobody ever asks where the money's coming from if there's a war, or a bailout, and they've just pledged 15% of our GDP to help small businesses.
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Feeling a bit better about things today. Happy with the £330 billion pledged by the government for businesses. Loans, not grants unfortunately, but giving that much away in grants seems like it'd cause economic damage, they'll have to make it up somehow. ,
    ...
    I may not have followed Boris Johnson as closely as you have, but did he really promise GBP 330 BILLION? Sounds a little luxurious, even in present circumstances...

    Keep in mind that this is available for any small businesses (for big ones they're just scrapping rates for premises I think, haven't got round to watching the press conference, but that'd save them a lot of money). So, it might seem like a lot, but there are a lot of small businesses that are going to suffer. It's a good move.
    TripAces wrote: »
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    There is a huge potential problem that few people are considering....

    What if coronavirus remains active, never goes away? Flu has never been eradicated, kills around 50 - 60 thousand people per year even with vaccines. Are we all going to remain in near permanent lock down, not going out much? That would be crazy.

    I think the governments of the world, WHO and other health authorties may have created an even bigger problem than cr! If the virus is still active in November what happens to all the delayed films? What happens to all the service industries that have had suffered during the spring and summer months? What happens to the airline industry, to the share prices of major corps? What happens to all the jobs that have been put on hold, all the salaries, all the people that need to keep working to pay their rent and mortgage?

    We're all playing with major fire here if the virus is not contained or in reverse after summer. At some point the travel bans will have to be lifted with or without coronavirus because the world economy cannot operate under such strict restrictions. For example, you can't expect Italians to remain under curfew for months. The reaction to coronavirus - even if it's well-intentioned - may turn out to be a catastrophic mistake. It might be better to leave cr alone, some people will die but others will be immune to it. Long term that makes more sense than the world economy collapsing due to crazy restrictions. People die from the flu - there is no world panic. We may have to adopt the same mindset with cornavirus if there is no dramatic fall in cases and no feasible vaccine.

    The best way forward is to drop all restrictions and invest in huge scanning machines at all airports, seaports and any other areas of entry. Every person entering a country has to have a cr scan and if they get the negative result they have to be put in self isolation. That makes more sense than long term travel bans and other restrictions.

    You cannot allow the service sector of a country to collapse. It will be catastrophic for hundreds or millions of people, their jobs, their mortgages/rent, their child care the list goes on and on. We live in a capitalist world. If you break that system you're screwed. We're playing with fire, folks. Forget coronavirus, the world economy might be at even greater risk. Hopefully this scenario won't happen but it's possible. Just pointing this out. I try to be brutally honest rather than just say what's politically correct. We all want the virus to end asap but we have to think of the longer term ramifications.

    There is a lesson to be learned, here. I am interested to find out (but not optimistic) that it will be learned: that demand drives the economy, not supply. And to foster demand means to take care of the masses. I can see that what concerns you most is money, not people's safety. And it is this very thinking that has caused this catastrophe in the first place.

    What "Capitalists" never seem to figure out is that it is their own greed, short-sightedness, and worship of money that ALWAYS brings about disaster. ALWAYS.




    Well said @TripAces.
  • Posts: 1,314
    My first day working for home. I feel for a few co worker who have left recently to go freelance.....

    I think Coronavirus has shown some aspects of modern [western] society up for what it is - self-centred, impatient, greedy, childish, and overly concerned with the trivial in the absence of something genuine to worry about.

    I mean people complaining how unfair it was that a film was going to be delayed by a few months. How 'ridiculous' the whole thing was, while the Chinese were dying in their thousands. Hopefully this will be a moral reset of society on things that matter.

    How come the US are offering free testing? Its almost like a free healthcare system works isn't it....?

    Everyone stay safe, and let's all come out the other side....
  • Posts: 631
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Based on what I've read online - and you got be open minded about what how accurate things are online - season flu kills around 50 - 60,000 people per year. Coronavirus has killed just over 6,000 people. It's doubtful to exceed the flu's mortality rate.

    I don’t know where you are getting your information but it is wrong.

    Seasonal flu kills ‘only’ 50 to 60,000 because it infects about 50-60 million a year and it has a 0.1% death rate (ballpark).

    This new virus has a death rate of about 1%, even more than that in circumstances where health services are overloaded, but let’s stick with 1% for now to keep the maths simple. If we let C-19 become as endemic as flu, if we let it infect about 50-60 million a year, then then that’s half a million or more new dead people, every year, on top of all the other threats that overstressed western health services have to deal with.

    Seasonal flu on its own, with its pathetic death rate of 0.1%, can bring health services to the brink of collapse. This is an order of magnitude worse.

    If we nip its spread in the bud then we don’t have to worry about it. That’s why governments are reacting so strongly. Act with resolution now, stop it in its tracks.

  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I start working from home tomorrow for the foreseeable until otherwise informed. The company I work for is aiming for 75% working from home target.

    Although if a case pops up in the building it is likely that it will be cleared and the whole company are working from home.

    My Wife works from home and has for the last decade so we'll be both together so should help to keep each other sane.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,512
    Whyle it official plan to be confirmd or it be canceld on 05 April, i think we should expect that that there going to cancel Europe Songcontest in Rotterdam this weak. Because last couple of days it be confirmd that KINGSDAY on 27 April is canceld for this year and Soccer game is delayd till next year. If so i think there should not move one year later it to May 2021, but with 10 months to March 2021. In my opnion the winner can deside or there whant to do next one in March again or in May 2022.

    I understand it and alternate date of 26 June for example i thinking about for Kingsday is possible stil to soon too. I stil hope there change there minds from the moment it is possible to choose alternate month like September/October.

    And there is stil a possible No Time To Die wil be delayd again because of news Italy possible can be on hold for year.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    TripAces wrote: »
    What "Capitalists" never seem to figure out is that it is their own greed, short-sightedness, and worship of money that ALWAYS brings about disaster. ALWAYS.

    Looks like even now money is more important than human lives.

    Medical company threatens to sue volunteers that 3D-printed valves for life-saving coronavirus treatments

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  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
  • I mean people complaining how unfair it was that a film was going to be delayed by a few months. How 'ridiculous' the whole thing was, while the Chinese were dying in their thousands. Hopefully this will be a moral reset of society on things that matter.

    Pardon me, but how can you tell people off for being upset that a film that they were so looking forward to seeing was delayed at practically the last minute (after it had been delayed twice already) for 7 months - not just a few?

    I was keeping up with the news when the virus had broken put in China. I cared about it, but it's not healthy / fair on yourself to keep worrying about it when you can't do anything to help the situation. Everyday life (pardon the expression) has to carry on. Culture - be it films, television, literature, video games, music or sports and more matter to people. I thought ordinary cinema showings would be the last thing to be affected by this as long as people exercised caution - not panic and act like the world's ending.
    God forbid people try to have a bit of escapism for a few hours and get away from the constant bloody news updates. No, coop yourself up in your house for months on end because of the fault of people's appalling hygiene and common sense and keep yourself company with fearmongering news updates, while waiting for the world to reset so that you can actually go out and enjoy life.
  • Posts: 618
    Being "upset" about the delay of a movie release at this time is, quite frankly, incomprehensible.

    Unfathomable. Inconceivable.

    "Miffed"... "Irked"... :Annoyed"... Sure. That's understandable.

    But upset?

    Save that emotion for the kakistocracy. Or the guy that's buying up all the toilet paper and eggs.

    To borrow a memorable bit of promotional ballyhoo from an American exploitation film of the early 1970s:

    "Keep telling yourself...
    It's only a movie...
    Only a movie...
    ONLY A MOVIE!"
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited March 2020 Posts: 4,343
    Italy has now 2500+ casualties.

    Forced quarantine will be 100% extended from April 3 to mid April or even to the end of the month.

    Meanwhile people across Italy have been singing from their balconies in an effort to keep up morale:

  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497

    Yes, but we can still play sports. And get our French fries. :ar!
  • Being "upset" about the delay of a movie release at this time is, quite frankly, incomprehensible.

    Unfathomable. Inconceivable.

    "Miffed"... "Irked"... :Annoyed"... Sure. That's understandable.

    But upset?

    Yes I am upset about it, it is a perfectly valid feeling and nothing is going to change my mind about it. Reading / hearing the news about all the delays since and everything that's happened in the UK since makes me all the more upset about this delay than I was before.

    Yes I know it's only a movie but it still matters - especially in times like this.

    Maybe if things get worse, more studios (including EON) might put their films on streaming services. I normally just watch TV shows on streaming services but I wouldn't mind doing this for films that I was going to see at the cinema which have been delayed and, in some cases (such as Black Widow and The New Mutants) haven't had new release dates announced at this point.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    After all the efforts put on making a gigantic Bond film experience filled with glorious IMAX sequences presenting NTTD on streaming services seemes quite unlikely.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    Being "upset" about the delay of a movie release at this time is, quite frankly, incomprehensible.

    Unfathomable. Inconceivable.

    "Miffed"... "Irked"... :Annoyed"... Sure. That's understandable.

    But upset?

    Save that emotion for the kakistocracy. Or the guy that's buying up all the toilet paper and eggs.

    To borrow a memorable bit of promotional ballyhoo from an American exploitation film of the early 1970s:

    "Keep telling yourself...
    It's only a movie...
    Only a movie...
    ONLY A MOVIE!"

    It's not being "upset".

    It's being a bit down because movies that we have been looking forward to for months and even years (NTTD, Black Widow) had to be postponed.

    You do understand the basic concept of a discussion forum do you? It's all about exchanging opinions that aren't facts.

    Meanwhile, Bad Boys For Life, directed by Belgium's own Adil El Arbi & Bilal Farrah, is the most succesful movie of 2020 with 419.000.000 dollars.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,129
    Australian prime minister Scott Morrison has closed the borders.
    https://www.bay939.com.au/news/local-news/115468-borders-closed-overseas-travel-banned

    Australians banned from traveling over seas.
    Non essential indoor gatherings limited to 100 people.
    Heavy restrictions on aged care facilities.
    Schools to remain open.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    :)>- Stay safe.
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