Coronavirus Discussion

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  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    OK, here we have our joint conspiracy theorists making up fake stuff again. Sickening bullshit.
  • Posts: 5,989
    To sober up the debate :

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    expose-news.com :))
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Thanks, @Gerard and @NickTwentyTwo, for your support in the fight against this Q-anon type nonsense.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited August 2022 Posts: 7,546
    I struggle with the conspiracy theory stuff ultimately because of my own uncertainty of things. I’m extremely uncertain about what’s in the vaccines, who’s making them, for what purpose, etc etc etc. but these conspiracies are such an extreme reaction to that sort of uncertainty I think. And the reason I don’t subscribe to any of them is because they work in exactly the opposite way as I understand science to work; conspiracy theorists have their conclusion built in (the government can’t be trusted or whatever else), and they’ll only engage with what supports that conclusion, and disregard everything that doesn’t (I remember at one point NASA aimed to combat the idea that the moon landing was fake by releasing tens of thousands of photos of the project, and my first thought was, “this isn’t going to convince anyone who already thinks it’s fake”). Science on the other hand knows it can’t prove anything to be true; it can only surmise what may be true based on evidence, but then is only interested in engaging with that which aims to prove it *not true*, in order to determine the strength of the original hypothesis.

    I am in no way armed to prove that vaccines are wholly good, or that we landed on the moon, or a large amount of other things, to even myself, let alone others (flat earth is an exception; I think this is something that is visible to us every day, and I’m fairly confident I can illustrate that scale *does* matter, which seems to be a crux of their argument). But I’m comfortable in my understanding how science, and the pursuit of objective truths, works.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Thanks, @Gerard and @NickTwentyTwo, for your support in the fight against this Q-anon type nonsense.

    @j_w_pepper
    Willful stupidity, worse than simple stupidity, is a callow indifference to facts or logic. It shows itself as a stubborn devotion to uninformed opinions. It exists in echo chambers and on self-serving websites full of fake data. And then there are the stories about the people it knows, whose individual experiences somehow support the oblique thesis it tries to defend. We can all do the same, and it would prove nothing.

    Let us not worry about the fight against the Q Anon nonsense. We are talking about an exceptionally marginal community here. It's wasted energy. 😉
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    edited August 2022 Posts: 9,019
    Basically agreed, @DarthDimi, but it's still there. Forging ahead to poison general discussion with their fake and fabricated examples, while willfiully ignoring the countless deaths that Covid-19 has left in its wake for the last 2 1/2 years. Just because some of the protagonists haven't caught it yet. Because they were lucky and nothing more, and don't give a shit to what happens to others.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    +1.

    Pro-vaccine, pro-science, pro-no-needless-suffering-and-dying.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2022 Posts: 24,157
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Basically agreed, @DarthDimi, but it's still there. Forging ahead to poison general discussion with their fake and fabricated examples, while willfiully ignoring the countless deaths that Covid-19 has left in its wake for the last 2 1/2 years. Just because some of the protagonists haven't caught it yet. Because they were lucky and nothing more, and don't give a shit to what happens to others.

    I acknowledge the dangers--they are certainly there. Some people are easily trapped in a tunnel vision engineered by smarter people who find personal gain in exploiting the ignorant. Thus, you have the likes of Alex Jones who propagate and sell conspiracies for a living, and the likes of Marjory Taylor Green who buy them and try to win elections with them.

    Concerning Covid and the vaccines, we are all still standing at the bottom of the learning curve. But some are doomed to stay there because they have poisoned their minds with dogmatic views, created, multiplied, and bounced back-and-forth between those who already know what they want to read, or hear, of see proven in graphs, even if the data were fabricated. Empirical evidence, new observations that lead to a new and better understanding of things... none of that matters to them. They simply seek confirmation wherever they can, even if it’s all based on lies.

    The truth is that fighting epidemics is messy and extremely difficult. It usually takes many years if not decades to do so. In a world as densely populated as ours, with more human interactions across the globe than ever before, we should be in extremely dark times for many more years. Yet, a few simple tricks (masks, vaccines and booster vaccines and more of those to come, social distancing, …) are obviously helping us to safeguard our society from decay.

    Either way, weren’t we all going to die from the vaccines we took many months ago? Weren’t we all going to end up mind-controlled by Bill Gates? What about all those babies that would be born dead? What about all those birth defects we were told to expect? What about all those governments that would never give us our freedom back? What about the masks that we would be forced to wear forever? Every single prediction from conspiracy nuts that I have read about in the media has turned out wrong.

    So, @j_w_pepper, I have long ago lumped these people in with the end-of-the-world thinkers who are forced to always re-calculate the Mayan calendar and whatever, because their doomsday predictions have never been accurate, not even faintly.

    Let them try to follow in the footsteps of Andrew Wakefield, the man who fabricated his data, faked his observations, lost his medical licence, and became the joke of the medical community. Let them join the retarded Bible Belt communities where forgotten diseases have now resurfaced because frightened parents refused a few harmless jabs for their kids, some of whom will die thanks to their superstitious surroundings. Let them.

    Isn't it also funny that this thread was bumped with silly videos about mouth masks? Ask yourself: why was that necessary? Why, if any of it were the obvious truth, would it need such a strong PR campaign? I don't have to remind this community that the Earth is round every single day, but Flat-Earthers persistently have to send each other confirmation of their ridiculous thoughts. Neither do I feel compelled to remind you that mouth masks work because by now that is what recent experience and common sense have proven. It's the other side that has to boost its morale by seeking affirmation and confirmation whenever it can.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,044
    What happened to discourse as apposed to mud slinging?
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,515
    The hospitals here in australia seem to be full of covid patients.
    I don't know what percentage were vaccinated, boosters etc.
    It would be good if they provide that info ?

    The vacc rate was quite high so it's terrible that this is happening.
  • Misinformation kills.. a wonder why places like Facebook have so many problems blocking it. Too bad this site is a little more lenient on 'alternative opinions" that can linked on here.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    What happened to discourse as apposed to mud slinging?
    Who do you think is slinging mud here?
  • Posts: 12,526
    Some neighbours of ours came back from Florida yesterday, a 3 week break. 3 contracted covid whilst out there, the other 2 contracted it the day they got back.

    The most interesting thing i learned from them is that if you don't go to work because you have caught covid, allegedley you only get 10% of your wages? Obviously i have no idea if accurate as its third hand conversation?

    But you can see how this thing is gonna take off again because of the cost of living and inflation crisis?
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,019
    Sounds like a typical U.S. problem. Over here (Europe, or at least Germany and quite a few others) you're covered for six weeks of sick leave by your employer, and by the public or private health insurance after that. Doesn't mean we won't have another surge in fall and winter. Just that basically nobody is going broke over it.
  • Posts: 377
    My employer is a small company and no sick pay for us. If you don't work you don't get paid. Just had a week off with the COVID and lost a week's pay. They also said I did not need to self isolate anymore so I could go in. The fact I felt like crap and could barely get out of bed
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    My employer is a small company and no sick pay for us. If you don't work you don't get paid. Just had a week off with the COVID and lost a week's pay. They also said I did not need to self isolate anymore so I could go in. The fact I felt like crap and could barely get out of bed

    That is utterly disgusting! No paid sick leave?
  • Posts: 12,462
    cooperman2 wrote: »
    My employer is a small company and no sick pay for us. If you don't work you don't get paid. Just had a week off with the COVID and lost a week's pay. They also said I did not need to self isolate anymore so I could go in. The fact I felt like crap and could barely get out of bed

    I work at a huge company and I'm 99% sure I don't get any sick pay either, but this is also an issue of the state government I'm stuck in.
  • Posts: 377
    Lots of companies in the UK don't provide paid sick leave. There is statutory sick pay only which is provided by the government.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    Then any attempt by the government at keeping Covid under control is futile.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,044
    I am fortunate I get three months sick leave full pay in the UK. The only time I have been off sick in the last few years ironically was because of C19, which was irritating as I pride myself on rarely going off sick.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    I usually become ill during a vacation. It's as if I'm not allowed a break. 😉 Anyway, even extended sick leaves are possible with full or close to full payment here in Belgium. I don't think that is always a good thing, though, as it invites abuse.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,044
    I find if I keep going I don't get ill, in the past if I rested too much I picked something up.

    Touch wood the last few years even with C19 (had no symptoms really) had no illness at all unless it was a injury through training. I think my diet and nutrition has contributed a lot to that.
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