NEW 2021 UPDATES ON 'Quick Big Mi6 Bond Ranking Game': JOIN IN, FOLKS!

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  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,617
    I thought DAF was boring the few times I watched it back in the 90s/00s. Then, about four years back, I really took a liking to it. #21 for me, but can move up or down a spot.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,218
    I had the film at 21 too, @QBranch. "Small world."
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    There are two ways to look at this film. As the "sequel" to OHMSS, it fails completely--so much so that one might be tempted not to look at the film that we got, but at the film that we could have gotten. If, however, one is willing to isolate DAF from the rest of the lot, there's an imperfect yet enjoyable film hidden in there. I don't hate Charles G's Blofeld nearly as much as some, but I would rate Jill St. John as one of the very worst Bond girls ever. Many actors can barely act, but most give delicious performances nevertheless. And every time the film is about to irreparably break down, Barry's fantastic score keeps the pieces together. The oil rig climax is where I start to lose my patience. The whole thing looks like something out of an A-Team episode. But there's enough "fun juice" running through DAF for me to extract a couple of good smiles and smirks from it whenever I watch it.

    Fun juice? .....


    Fun juice?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,617
    I wanted to rate it higher, but Ernst kept yelling, "Lower! Not up!"
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,161
    QBranch wrote: »
    I wanted to rate it higher, but Ernst kept yelling, "Lower! Not up!"

    Haha good one :))
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Despite my fondness for DAF, it was always going to struggle. I do believe I had it a no. 22? This movie misses that Hunt touch.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited April 2021 Posts: 7,314
    Ah, my poor Diamonds. Not quite the Akbar Shah is it? Seriously though I loved this one as a kid, but somewhere along the way the relationship soured. Nowadays I appreciate it quite a bit despite the obvious flaws. But just consider the score, the dialogue, Connery's underrated funny bone... there's slots-a-fun to be had. Sorry, couldn't resist! Anyway, I had it at 15th so I will have to agree to disagree with my fellow members on this one.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    pachazo wrote: »
    Ah, my poor Diamonds. Not quite the Akbar Shah is it? Seriously though I loved this one as a kid, but somewhere along the way the relationship soured. Nowadays I appreciate it quite a bit despite the obvious flaws. But just consider the score, the dialogue, Connery's underrated funny bone... there's slots-a-fun to be had. Sorry, couldn't resist! Anyway, I had it at 15th so I will have to agree to disagree with my fellow members on this one.

    More like a rather dull quartz, unfortunately.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,161
    Personally I find Diamonds a bit crass, possibly due to the rather vulgar kitch of Las Vegas and Tiffany Case shouting 'Blow up your pants'.

    That being said, it does have good dialogue, a fabulous Barry score (and a great title song), two hilarious henchmen and one fantastic scene right at the end: "Mouton Rothschild is a claret."
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,984
    I'm hot and cold with DAF. I like what I like and really don't care for the bits I don't. The buggy chase is a bit goofy, the dialogue is off at times, and the finale is terribly dull, but the cast of characters are larger than life, Connery is solidly stoic and determined, and that elevator fight scene is one of my favorites in the series. Definitely more enjoyable than some other installments for me and one that I have no real problem returning to and finding something to admire.
  • It’s the most fun of the “bad” Bond movies, imo (unless Golden Gun counts there, which I prefer). It’s nonsensical and very silly but I find it quite fun all the same.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 2021 Posts: 4,487
    DAF is one of my least favoured EON Bond films. Nevertheless, I agree that Wint& Kidd, the elevator fight and the score are very good. I even love Tiffany in the scenes before she is captured by Granny Blofeld...
  • Re: DAD, I'm in the same camp as @Birdleson in having a decent cushion that's keeping DAD from the bottom. Despite its glaring flaws and despite how blindsided, how sunken-hearted, how completely without words I was as I walked from the theaters that opening night, I have to admit it's a damned rewatchable Bond. It's like a cheap beer that somehow, magically, manages to age like port, and I'm proud to say I have it on tap in my home. There's a lot of great stuff in this film. So much in fact that I'll happily take that which once drove a near mortal wound through my young fandom along with the good and give this one a fair mid-to-low tier ranking these days.

    Re: DAF, I've long viewed DAF as a spiritual precursor to DAD, replete with space lasers and an illicit diamond trail leading the way to villains with surgically modified doubles or replacement faces courtesy of replacement gene therapy. And hovercrafts. I used to have DAF in bottom place. More recently, it's been fortuitously dislodged from that ignominy by one other. Even so, there's a lot to enjoy in DAF, too: prime Barry (au jus), devilishly good Mankiewiczian humor, all those retro-futuristic sets, and a Tiffany Case that in her better moments does Fleming's creation proud. But yes, it's in my Bottom 3.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,161
    I have both DAD and DAF in my bottom three, but regardless of that status, I still find things to enjoy about them.

    I suppose that's typical of being a fan. For instance, I can appreciate the good Star Wars films, but the ones I don't like I don't plan to ever watch again. I'd gladly re-watch my least favourite Bond film though.
  • I echo that sentiment - DAF is comfortably in my bottom 3 and it's arguably as much a 180 degree turn in the series as from DAD to CR, but I still get a kick out of it whenever I revisit it... "Who is your floor?" "Klaus Hergerscheimer, G Section."
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2021 Posts: 7,161
    I love it that even the lower ranked entries are getting this much love.

    On to the next inevitable appearance:

    STARRING
    Daniel Craig as James Bond 007

    WITH
    Léa Seydoux, Christoph Waltz, Monica Bellucci & Dave Bautista

    SPECTRE

    MUSIC BY Thomas Newman
    DIRECTED BY Sam Mendes

    IMG_0901-968x1410.jpg

    SP was ranked last by 3 members and ended in the bottom 5 on no less than 14 occasions.

    That's not to say it doesn't have its fans. It received 3 top 10 spots, and another 4 top 15 spots. Its highest ranking was 6th place, which it reached on one occasion.

    In total SP managed to collect 88 points.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,343
    That's a surprise, but I have a feeling that it will grow on the audience with time, just as QoS did. Like that film, SP followed after a massive success, and when it did not convince on the whole, it was considered a lost opportunity. But I must agree, when I rack my mind, many not wholly convincing scenes come up first (car chase, helicopter fight in the PTS, torture scene), but they are balanced by many that I really like (PTS up to the helicopter scene, Q-Bond scenes, Hoffler clinic scene and chase, l'Americain scene). I had SP 3 ranks higher and definitively superior to AVTAK.
  • Posts: 7,518
    That's disappointing, but no surprise with all the negativity it gets round here!
    Its at 14 in rankings for me, and it will probably move around that spot in time. But its not a bottom tier Bond. There is lots to enjoy in it, that pts is still a cracker, love the whole section in Italy, am a fan of Lea's Swann character, one of the best fight scenes in the series........., and its got Monica Belluci too!!!
    Only consolation is that it finished ahead of DAD.
    It certainly nowhere near as bad as that abomination!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited April 2021 Posts: 24,218
    In 2012, I was very pleased with SF as the next Bond film, but I also thought it overpraised by fans, critics and general audiences alike. Many of my friends and colleagues, who hardly registered as Bond fans, jumped on the SF wagon, were impressed by things I felt we had seen in tons of other Bond films before and thoroughly seemed to enjoy elements that I struggled with, one of which is the script.

    Meanwhile, I felt deprived of more 'Quantum', of all the shadowy razmataz that Greene had hinted at. And with the S.P.E.C.T.R.E / Blofeld rights reverted back to EON, I would soon begin fantasizing about something even more sinister play out behind the cogs and wheels that were revealed in QOS. To save me from disappointment, I naturally assumed they'd never get there. But that SF left all of those things untouched (Mr White, Greene, who Guy Haines was working for, ...) was a small source of irritation too.

    Then SP happened in 2015. And SP delivered. Too much perhaps (Silva never had to be involved) and not always that good (it really shouldn't have been a family feud), but at least I saw major improvements over SF in almost every department, except for the theme song and photography (which rocks in both films). Craig's in good shape in this one (I was never a fan of the "old man Bond" idea from SF); I really appreciate the Bond girls in this film; yes, the action is a lot better in my opinion; the score is definitely an improvement over SF's; the story makes more sense to me; and so on. I really dig the Bond - Madeleine romance, which feels genuine and warm. Not a single scene in SF comes even close to the atmospheric "L'Américain" scene, which always pulls me in, as if I'm there, in those dizzy hours, awake but not quite, cooking in the heat, cooling off when unearthing important secrets. I also appreciate the train scene, which, before Hinx' interruption, plays out like a callback to Vesper, almost to grant Bond permission to finally love again. Even the London climax, though just a simple save-the-girl-in-time device, doesn't nearly strike me as the dull or offensively stupid sequence some have called it.

    My appreciation for SP isn't about me enthusiastically responding to the advent of a new Bond film--six years have passed!--nor a matter of remembering things better than they really are--I watch the film almost three times every year and continue to love it. Yes, it has flaws. Sure. But then, only CR is the truly flawless Craig Bond for me. On any given day, SP can be either my second or third favourite Craig Bond, interchangeable with QOS.
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    That's disappointing, but no surprise with all the negativity it gets round here!
    Its at 14 in rankings for me, and it will probably move around that spot in time. But its not a bottom tier Bond. There is lots to enjoy in it, that pts is still a cracker, love the whole section in Italy, am a fan of Lea's Swann character, one of the best fight scenes in the series........., and its got Monica Belluci too!!!
    Only consolation is that it finished ahead of DAD.
    It certainly nowhere near as bad as that abomination!

    It is frustrating, for sure, to see films like TMWTGG, AVTAK and, in some people's rankings, even NSNA, score better than SP. These choices have been explained to me, and I certainly agree that a 2015 film need not be judged the same way we judge a 1974 or 1985 film, that expectations make a huge difference and that nostalgia can clear up a clouded sky. But it nevertheless remains difficult for me to accept that 'Brothergate' can push a competent film to a last place while Bond taking out a baddy with his own urine or racing a motorcycle with some annoying '60s TV jazz playing in the background can be so easily forgiven.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited April 2021 Posts: 1,711
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Not a single scene in SF comes even close to the atmospheric "L'Américain" scene, which always pulls me in, as if I'm there, in those dizzy hours, awake but not quite, cooking in the heat, cooling off when unearthing important secrets. I also appreciate the train scene, which, before Hinx' interruption, plays out like a callback to Vesper, almost to grant Bond permission to finally love again. Even the London climax, though just a simple save-the-girl-in-time device, doesn't nearly strike me as the dull or offensively stupid sequence some have called it.

    It is frustrating, for sure, to see films like TMWTGG, AVTAK and, in some people's rankings, even NSNA, score better than SP. These choices have been explained to me, and I certainly agree that a 2015 film need not be judged the same way we judge a 1974 or 1985 film, that expectations make a huge difference and that nostalgia can clear up a clouded sky. But it nevertheless remains difficult for me to accept that 'Brothergate' can push a competent film to a last place while Bond taking out a baddy with his own urine or racing a motorcycle with some annoying '60s TV jazz playing in the background can be so easily forgiven.

    Terrific post. Spectre is so full of scenes I look forward to, and L'Americain is a great one that perfectly encapsulates the atmosphere of the film for me.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I still don’t understand why so many of you guys get so caught up in and frustrated with why other people feel the way they feel. And need o explain it, excuse it, and/or say it’s because they didn’t see this or they didn’t understand that or they anticipated this, or they’re excusing whatever. I don’t try to explain why you guys like SP, or why so many people for so long disparage GF, my favorite. I just accept that’s what they like or don’t like. I can’t get angry or personally offended about it. I, for one, enjoy seeing rankings that are completely opposite mine, or make no sense to me whatever.

    I'm sure I've been guilty of trying to explain people's views of SP, and I probably shouldn't do that!

    The crux of it may be the fact that the film can scarcely be mentioned at all, in any context, without inviting a barrage of irrelevant moaning, rather unlike GF. And there's the inescapable sense that folks are being more than a little hyperbolic in discussing it. If someone says the PTS is bad, L'Americain is bad, the Hinx fight is bad, the Spectre meeting is bad, okay, I'll just have to take their word for it, but it's hard for me to relate to the idea that, for the first time, everything in a Bond film has been done badly.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was the one who ranked this at no 6. So I guess I am its biggest fan. In the tournament, it ended up as no 20, so marginally better than here.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,487
    I ranked SP a bit better (17th), but it is possible that it will fall even lower with my next watch. There is enough for me to looking forward to (the train fight is one of my favourite fights of the series, the Vivaldi/Belucci scene is another highlight, and Q is very entertaining). However, I have the same problem as @Birdleson : I feel a bit bored in more than one scene (every scene with C, the SPECTRE meeting, Bond at home, Bond is searching a secret door in Altaussee etc.). Furthermore, the action scenes are not as exciting/creative as they should be.

    Great choices of the posters @GoldenGun.
  • I would like to like Spectre better than I do, but every time I’ve given it a chance so far I come away with more or less the same impression. It’s not *horrible* I just find it dull. Everything from the action, train fight aside, to the locations that all look and feel the same thanks to the blanket color grading, it just feels so drab and lifeless. QoS was never a grower for me, I liked it from the get-go so I’m not sure Spectre has a shot of rising in my esteem much. But you never know!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,617
    I think I'm in the minority who like the car chase as something different, and the helicopter shoot down being a classic 007 moment. I enjoy the entire London finale. Main niggles are the filter and some repetitive dialogue. Action could be a bit more dynamic too. The 'Brofeld' angle doesn't bother me if it remains in this film alone. Lots of good stuff in there: "I'll send you a postcard"; Bond offering life insurance; Lucia beside the pool; the kite dancing in a hurricane; mouse; waiting at the train station; meteorite room; Ernst playing the video in Maddy's presence; safe house confirmed safe. Would like to have seen more of Detlef Bothe.

    Enjoyed it a lot more on the last viewing. Got to see it at the cinema a couple weeks back.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,984
    I was one of the few with it ranking in last place, and it's going to take a lot for that film to do anything in my raking but stay where it's at. Bloated, overpriced and poorly acted, SP is a boring slog to get through. The cinematography's awful yellow filter ruins what could be some otherwise fine looking sequences, the CGI is rough for such a pricy film, taking away from some otherwise great practical stunts or flashy car chases (the one in Rome being very hollow and superfluous), the stepbrother twist is laughably, laughably stupid (seriously, it's ripped from an Austin Powers film), and there's virtually nothing on display that keeps me coming back. I haven't seen the film in years, might sit through it before NTTD, but honestly? I doubt I do. It's the one film in the series I don't ever feel like giving another chance to - I've seen it enough and it's bad across the board.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2021 Posts: 7,161
    SP used to be my last-placed Bond film for quite a few years.

    But recently it has gained a few spots mainly thanks to the classy Bond girl duo Léa Seydoux-Monica Bellucci. The PTS, Altaussee, the Rome scenes and L'Américain are definitely parts that I like.

    Not so much love for the stuff with C, Brothergate and the London finale though.

    Still a bottom three for me in the end, but it did move past DAD and DAF recently.

    Oh and thanks @goldenswissroyale :) I will try to keep them interesting ;)
  • The C stuff would have almost been justified if they hadn’t botched the “now we know what C stands for” punchline!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,218
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Not a single scene in SF comes even close to the atmospheric "L'Américain" scene, which always pulls me in, as if I'm there, in those dizzy hours, awake but not quite, cooking in the heat, cooling off when unearthing important secrets. I also appreciate the train scene, which, before Hinx' interruption, plays out like a callback to Vesper, almost to grant Bond permission to finally love again. Even the London climax, though just a simple save-the-girl-in-time device, doesn't nearly strike me as the dull or offensively stupid sequence some have called it.

    It is frustrating, for sure, to see films like TMWTGG, AVTAK and, in some people's rankings, even NSNA, score better than SP. These choices have been explained to me, and I certainly agree that a 2015 film need not be judged the same way we judge a 1974 or 1985 film, that expectations make a huge difference and that nostalgia can clear up a clouded sky. But it nevertheless remains difficult for me to accept that 'Brothergate' can push a competent film to a last place while Bond taking out a baddy with his own urine or racing a motorcycle with some annoying '60s TV jazz playing in the background can be so easily forgiven.

    Terrific post. Spectre is so full of scenes I look forward to, and L'Americain is a great one that perfectly encapsulates the atmosphere of the film for me.
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I still don’t understand why so many of you guys get so caught up in and frustrated with why other people feel the way they feel. And need o explain it, excuse it, and/or say it’s because they didn’t see this or they didn’t understand that or they anticipated this, or they’re excusing whatever. I don’t try to explain why you guys like SP, or why so many people for so long disparage GF, my favorite. I just accept that’s what they like or don’t like. I can’t get angry or personally offended about it. I, for one, enjoy seeing rankings that are completely opposite mine, or make no sense to me whatever.

    I'm sure I've been guilty of trying to explain people's views of SP, and I probably shouldn't do that!

    The crux of it may be the fact that the film can scarcely be mentioned at all, in any context, without inviting a barrage of irrelevant moaning, rather unlike GF. And there's the inescapable sense that folks are being more than a little hyperbolic in discussing it. If someone says the PTS is bad, L'Americain is bad, the Hinx fight is bad, the Spectre meeting is bad, okay, I'll just have to take their word for it, but it's hard for me to relate to the idea that, for the first time, everything in a Bond film has been done badly.

    My sentiments exactly, @ProfJoeButcher!

    @Birdleson is, of course, correct. Someone else's opinion shouldn't upset me, nor should anyone feel pressured into apologizing for anything. I certainly know that Birdleson just leaves his opinion and then walks away, which is how I wish I could do things, but I'm weak. ;-)

    It does, however, work both ways, and discussions about SP seemingly cannot be had without people telling us how everything stinks. That 'last place' can be an honest choice for some, but I'm willing to bet that it's more hyperbole than anything else for others. I adore SP, but I only had it at #9. I could've easily thrown it in the top 3, but then I wouldn't have been honest with myself; I'd have made a statement. And that's how I feel about that last place in many a ranking (not everyone's!) for SP. If the film bores you to death, @Birdleson, and other Bond films don't or to a lesser extent, then that last place seems nothing but fair. That said, I've also read complaints about SP that are, or course, subjective and therefore always "correct" from the POV of who has them, but cannot explain why SP deserves the last place in a series replete with imperfect films, some of them, at least in my opinion, suffering from many more and way worse issues than SP. Yes, it's all subjective, I know. ;-)

    Of course, the quality of a film exists in isolation, not in comparison to other films. I love GF too, but where would I rank it against 2001: A Space Odyssey? Hold on, that's not a fair comparison. But GF is a Bond film, so comparing it to other Bond films comes naturally. And since this is a ranking thread, comparing films is not merely allowed, but in this instance, it's the very bread and butter of the game. And no, of course I'm not angry. ;-) This is all for fun, no? So when I conclude by saying that I think SP is unfairly maligned, I do so with a smile, not red-faced and ready to pump iron.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2021 Posts: 10,591
    Nearly six years later I still find many aspects of SP to be highly enjoyable while at the same time (much like QoS) being frustrated by how great it could have been. It has one of the greatest Bond PTS of all time, beautiful cinematography and some wonderful casting (regardless of how their characters were handled I still believe Waltz and Seydoux are brilliantly cast in their respective roles, which is why I was excited to hear they were returning for NTTD under a different director). Where the film falls short is its script, which no amount of great production can fix. The re-introduction of SPECTRE and Blofeld is not nearly as memorable as it should have been, which is why this film doesn't rank among the very best of the franchise for me. Also, Tom Newman appears to have been asleep while recording half the score.
  • Posts: 7,518
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I was one of the few with it ranking in last place, and it's going to take a lot for that film to do anything in my raking but stay where it's at. Bloated, overpriced and poorly acted, SP is a boring slog to get through. The cinematography's awful yellow filter ruins what could be some otherwise fine looking sequences, the CGI is rough for such a pricy film, taking away from some otherwise great practical stunts or flashy car chases (the one in Rome being very hollow and superfluous), the stepbrother twist is laughably, laughably stupid (seriously, it's ripped from an Austin Powers film), and there's virtually nothing on display that keeps me coming back. I haven't seen the film in years, might sit through it before NTTD, but honestly? I doubt I do. It's the one film in the series I don't ever feel like giving another chance to - I've seen it enough and it's bad across the board.

    Pretty much how I feel about 'DAD'!
    Wouldnt be bothered if I never watched it again! Gave it plenty of views, but has no redeeming features!
    I get what Birdleson is saying, but I think it would be pretty dull around here if we all agreed!!
    Anyhow, cant wait to see what's next in the list!
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