NEW 2021 UPDATES ON 'Quick Big Mi6 Bond Ranking Game': JOIN IN, FOLKS!

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  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,487
    Good points @DarthDimi. The Beirut scene isn't my issue, although it really is a forced fight scene.
    I always define this film as the “small Bond flick“. Is there a Bond movie with less action? Maybe the first two entries with Connery. Don't get me wrong, a movie doesn't need to be action packed (DN and FRWL are my favourite Connery entries), but if there isn't much excitement in the action department, it needs to be improved by interesting characters, plots or witty dialogues etc. However, it doesn't stand out in any of these aspects and it's almost strange how little bad guys/henchmen we get. On the whole island are only two men working for Scaramanga. One of then, Kra, is the most uninteresting henchman of the series and killed before Bond gets to him, and the other, Nick Nack, is good in his earliet scenes but the end confrontation with him is very odd. And how the hell did he disappear under the coach and suddenly come back from the other room? The climax with Scaramanga has a great build-up but is disappointing in the end and unrealistic. How could he manage to change his clothes so quick? I would have to see more from the island, instead they go directly back in fun house after a few seconds.
    And what is the most dangerous thing of the climax? Goodnight's butts...At least you can say that the writers warned us before by calling the night club “Bottom's up“...
    Highlights: the flying car, the MI6 headquarter in the ship wreck, the car, chase and the exotic locations, especially the flight to the island.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited April 2021 Posts: 40,985
    TMWTGG is one of the weaker installments for me, usually appearing in my bottom 3-5...which is a damn shame, because Lee is an excellent villain and this is certainly one of Moore's best performances in the role, a bit darker and more sarcastic.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    Good points @DarthDimi. The Beirut scene isn't my issue, although it really is a forced fight scene.
    I always define this film as the “small Bond flick“. Is there a Bond movie with less action? Maybe the first two entries with Connery. Don't get me wrong, a movie doesn't need to be action packed (DN and FRWL are my favourite Connery entries), but if there isn't much excitement in the action department, it needs to be improved by interesting characters, plots or witty dialogues etc. However, it doesn't stand out in any of these aspects and it's almost strange how little bad guys/henchmen we get. On the whole island are only two men working for Scaramanga. One of then, Kra, is the most uninteresting henchman of the series and killed before Bond gets to him, and the other, Nick Nack, is good in his earliet scenes but the end confrontation with him is very odd. And how the hell did he disappear under the coach and suddenly come back from the other room? The climax with Scaramanga has a great build-up but is disappointing in the end and unrealistic. How could he manage to change his clothes so quick? I would have to see more from the island, instead they go directly back in fun house after a few seconds.
    And what is the most dangerous thing of the climax? Goodnight's butts...At least you can say that the writers warned us before by calling the night club “Bottom's up“...
    Highlights: the flying car, the MI6 headquarter in the ship wreck, the car, chase and the exotic locations, especially the flight to the island.

    Yeah, I'm not a prude, not by a long shot, but Goodnight's bum is not the sort of "tool" I want to see used so ostensibly and so importantly during the climax of the film. The whole thing feels like they were making it up as they went. "So, fellas, what can we do to increase the tension in this scene?" "Let's have the girl rub her cheeks on the control panel so Bond is almost killed." "Great! Go, write those pages!"
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,487
    Yes, that's the way I imagine it, too @DarthDimi
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,334
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Good points @DarthDimi. The Beirut scene isn't my issue, although it really is a forced fight scene.
    I always define this film as the “small Bond flick“. Is there a Bond movie with less action? Maybe the first two entries with Connery. Don't get me wrong, a movie doesn't need to be action packed (DN and FRWL are my favourite Connery entries), but if there isn't much excitement in the action department, it needs to be improved by interesting characters, plots or witty dialogues etc. However, it doesn't stand out in any of these aspects and it's almost strange how little bad guys/henchmen we get. On the whole island are only two men working for Scaramanga. One of then, Kra, is the most uninteresting henchman of the series and killed before Bond gets to him, and the other, Nick Nack, is good in his earliet scenes but the end confrontation with him is very odd. And how the hell did he disappear under the coach and suddenly come back from the other room? The climax with Scaramanga has a great build-up but is disappointing in the end and unrealistic. How could he manage to change his clothes so quick? I would have to see more from the island, instead they go directly back in fun house after a few seconds.
    And what is the most dangerous thing of the climax? Goodnight's butts...At least you can say that the writers warned us before by calling the night club “Bottom's up“...
    Highlights: the flying car, the MI6 headquarter in the ship wreck, the car, chase and the exotic locations, especially the flight to the island.

    Yeah, I'm not a prude, not by a long shot, but Goodnight's bum is not the sort of "tool" I want to see used so ostensibly and so importantly during the climax of the film. The whole thing feels like they were making it up as they went. "So, fellas, what can we do to increase the tension in this scene?" "Let's have the girl rub her cheeks on the control panel so Bond is almost killed." "Great! Go, write those pages!"

    It's basically a remake of the "end" of DAF. ;)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,162
    My nickname already gives away that TMWTGG is yet another one of those less popular Bond films that I really like.

    The villains, the locations, the sets, the music, it's all very good. Goodnight isn't written well, I agree, but Ekland makes her very likeable nonetheless. Silly humour and a nonsensical screenplay are present as well, though the overall atmosphere makes up for those weaknesses in my book.

    I'd say the only thing that really bugs me, is Rog 'questioning' Miss Anders. Never liked that part one bit.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,343
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    The villains, the locations, the sets, the music, it's all very good. Goodnight isn't written well, I agree, but Ekland makes her very likeable nonetheless. Silly humour and a nonsensical screenplay are present as well, though the overall atmosphere makes up for those weaknesses in my book.

    I am with you 100%. TMWTGG always lights up my life when it is on TV and I am enjoying it more and more over the years (I ranked it at #7 and as the second most enjoyable Moore-Bond film). Incidentally, it was the first Bond movie I saw in full length (I was late for a double feature of LALD and TMWTGG) and it might have set the tone for me as to what to expect from a Bond movie.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I too had it in my top ten. It is the best Bond from the 70s/80s/90s.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    echo wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Good points @DarthDimi. The Beirut scene isn't my issue, although it really is a forced fight scene.
    I always define this film as the “small Bond flick“. Is there a Bond movie with less action? Maybe the first two entries with Connery. Don't get me wrong, a movie doesn't need to be action packed (DN and FRWL are my favourite Connery entries), but if there isn't much excitement in the action department, it needs to be improved by interesting characters, plots or witty dialogues etc. However, it doesn't stand out in any of these aspects and it's almost strange how little bad guys/henchmen we get. On the whole island are only two men working for Scaramanga. One of then, Kra, is the most uninteresting henchman of the series and killed before Bond gets to him, and the other, Nick Nack, is good in his earliet scenes but the end confrontation with him is very odd. And how the hell did he disappear under the coach and suddenly come back from the other room? The climax with Scaramanga has a great build-up but is disappointing in the end and unrealistic. How could he manage to change his clothes so quick? I would have to see more from the island, instead they go directly back in fun house after a few seconds.
    And what is the most dangerous thing of the climax? Goodnight's butts...At least you can say that the writers warned us before by calling the night club “Bottom's up“...
    Highlights: the flying car, the MI6 headquarter in the ship wreck, the car, chase and the exotic locations, especially the flight to the island.

    Yeah, I'm not a prude, not by a long shot, but Goodnight's bum is not the sort of "tool" I want to see used so ostensibly and so importantly during the climax of the film. The whole thing feels like they were making it up as they went. "So, fellas, what can we do to increase the tension in this scene?" "Let's have the girl rub her cheeks on the control panel so Bond is almost killed." "Great! Go, write those pages!"

    It's basically a remake of the "end" of DAF. ;)

    I'll echo that. ;-)

    Also, all of Hamilton's Bond films have somehow ended on a post-climax coda, but there's an enormous quality difference between them. The final fight with Goldfinger rocks, Kidd and Wint's send-off is stupid fun, Tee-Hee's feels redundant but NicNac's is just painful. Boy, am I glad that TSWLM went for good suspense within a grand-scale action film! Let me rephrase; the things that DAF, LALD and TMWTGG do at the end, is the kind of goofy fighting YOLT, TSWLM and MR do for an early snack long before the grand meal is served. And even then, Bond fighting the wrestler in Japan, Sandor in Egypt and Chang in Venice are still far more satisfying scenes than anything in the final minutes of Hamilton's last three Bonds, at least in my opinion.
  • Max_The_ParrotMax_The_Parrot ATAC to St Cyril’s
    edited April 2021 Posts: 2,426
    Well, looks like I'm the groups biggest TMWTGG fan! (Although, I shall allow @GoldenGun to take that title in reality!)

    Yes, it comes as no surprise to some of you that I'd stick GG at number 6. When it comes to these ranking activities I've always gone with 'ranking according to the enjoyment I get out of each film' rather than 'ranking according to some imaginary objective worthiness' but my first few attempts still suffered from the tendency to tell myself I really should be putting a few of the 'better regarded' films in the top half to prove my Bond-fan-worthiness.

    With this thread I gave myself a good talking to and really tried hard to rank according to the films I really do get the most enjoyment out of, the ones I'm always wanting to watch, the ones that always make me smile, make me feel good, cheer me up, give me a good time, the ones that I call MY favourites. Nostalgia and childhood undoubtedly are a huge influence on this, but that's what makes me who I am, so it would be wrong to try and eradicate it.

    And so I've ended up taking my past attempts and having a good reordering with quite a few of the Bond films. I'm happy to place GG well into my top 10. I can't argue with all the valid points people have made in this thread, in other threads, and on other websites. But this film still gives me a great Saturday night's entertainment in front of the telly. Sir Rog, Nick Nack, the elephant boy, JW back for no reason other than to get cheap laughs, the swanee whistle, Cha and Nara and their kung fu fighting, the third nipple and Chew Mee, solar agitating nonsense and Bottoms Up all over the place. They're all positives for me!

    I think I'm going to stick the disc on tonight and watch it for the umpteenth-and-one time! Lost it's charm? Not from where I'm standing!! :)
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,343

    I think I'm going to stick the disc on tonight and watch it for the umpteenth-and-one time! Lost it's charm? Not from where I'm standing!! :)

    Same here!
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    TMWTGG always falls a bit outside my top ten, and I always feel it's too low somehow, even though it isn't. The locations, sets and score give it one of the best aesthetics in the series as far as I'm concerned, and before the sumo wrestlers show up, it's really on track to be one of the best. And it's one of the best Bond performances by any of the actors.

    I once described it elsewhere as a delicious cake someone dropped on the ground. Great recipe, and most of it still tastes fantastic, but there's some bad stuff in there.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,162
    Since you rank it higher than anyone else here, it seems that you're the biggest TMWTGG fan of us all @Max_The_Parrot ;)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    @Max_The_Parrot, it'd be a dreadfully boring thread if we all ranked them the same way! Good on you for ranking this one so highly.

    If I'm honest, there were many years when TMWTGG ranked almost at the bottom for me. It took me awhile to "get it", so to speak, especially regarding Moore's performance. This Bond is being hunted and is understandably on edge (although he is still suave) and this really comes through in Moore's portrayal. I know not every fan buys it.

    Anyway, Moore and Lee are excellent, especially in the lunch scene together, but then there is all the silly stuff (Hip's nieces, I'm looking at you!) that unfortunately drags the film down for me. In the end, I have it in the 14th spot.
  • Catching up a bit. Kudos to AVTAK for not coming in the bottom 3! On paper, it could've been one hell of a Bond film... you've got the Eiffel Tower, the Golden Gate Bridge, an iconic villain + henchwoman duo, a very violent and dramatic climax, and Duran Duran. And imagine if Dalton had been Bond by then!

    In my own rankings, I have DAF above AVTAK, as well as TWINE above TMWTGG, by a hair. So very close so far!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,162
    As we move onwards from our number 19 to our number 18 we cross the 100-point mark.

    STARRING
    Pierce Brosnan as James Bond 007

    WITH
    Michelle Yeoh, Jonathan Pryce, Teri Hatcher & Götz Otto

    TOMORROW NEVER DIES

    MUSIC BY David Arnold
    DIRECTED BY Roger Spottiswoode

    James_Bond_Music_Collection.gif

    We're seeing a clear shift upwards here, as TND only gathered 7 bottom 5 places, of which its lowest ranking was 24th on one occasion.

    TND also managed to secure 7 rankings between the 11th and 15th place. On top of that it received one 5th placement and two 8th spots.

    In total, TND received 107 points.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,179
    TND left me cold in the cinema after the enormous excitement of GE, but I've come round to it over the years. Highlights: Jonathan Pryce chewing the scenery; the PTS and the exchange between Judi Dench and Geoffrey Palmer; Wai Lin leaving Bond handcuffed to a shower.

    (This is the first entry I've commented on, as the heated discussion tends to take place while I'm asleep, but I am enjoying it all very much!)
  • Posts: 7,520
    Well I'm happy to place it at 23.
    Things didnt bode well when that catchpenny title was first announced (and it a typo!!)! It just so ordinary and Meh!
    Apart from Vincent Schiavellis film stealing turn, it just doesn't have anything of interest, a bad panto villain, an anonymous leading lady, no plot, padded out with long, really long, tedious action sequences and an abrupt finish!
    Kleinman does good work again, unfortunately along with another forgettable theme song like GE!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    No 18 is exactly where I rank it, and it is exactly where it landed in the tournament thread as well. It is also the 18th EON Bond film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    TND disappointed me in 1997 because it wasn't Goldeneye². At the same time, Arnold's score got 15-year old me hooked on the musical juice and the garage car chase, along with Brosnan's boyish excitement, is awesome. Alas, the plot is a pretty weak redo of YOLT and, agreeing with @Birdleson here, the '90s action vibes in the second half of the film lack Bondian charm and aren't nearly as thrilling or exciting as the film seems to think.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited April 2021 Posts: 8,223
    I wasn't here in time to chip in with my ranking, but I'd like to contribute anyway with views as we go along if that's okay!

    TND sits pretty firmly in the middle of the park at 13th spot. It was my first Bond in theatres and as such I always had a place for it in my heart. I used to rank TWINE above it but as time goes on I find the simplicity and relatively lower ambitions of TND to be more appealing. Broz is great in it - balancing the killer within with the exterior charm very well. The score is superb. Gotz Otto is one of the better Red Grant knock-offs we've had.
    And, while the film does devolve (for lack of a better word) into an action extravaganza in the second half, the action is so strong that I have little issue with it. It was Bond doing a 90s action blockbuster, with big stakes and lots of noise, and I really find it immensely enjoyable. The lack of pretension, especially these days, feels quite refreshing to me.

    It's not innovative enough to crack into the top half, but it executes most of the things I love about Bond with enough efficiency that it will likely always sit comfortably in the middle of my rankings. As such, I am sad to see it down in the lower end - hopefully time will be kind to it.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,619
    First Bond film I saw at the cinemas, and first film I saw at the cinemas more than once. That experience blew me away. So much fun in this one, and the music is just as memorable.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    TND is my least favorite from Brosnan's tenure. The film has a real lack in urgency and danger for me, and most of the action, at least the more intimate fight scenes and personal one-on-one moments, are pedestrian and more akin to a TV movie or '90s show. I've tried for years to enjoy this one the way I did when I was a kid but it never happens. One of the first films I saw from the series over and over again in the '90s, though, so there's still a special connection to it through nostalgia and my childhood alone.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2021 Posts: 6,334
    pachazo wrote: »
    @Max_The_Parrot, it'd be a dreadfully boring thread if we all ranked them the same way! Good on you for ranking this one so highly.

    If I'm honest, there were many years when TMWTGG ranked almost at the bottom for me. It took me awhile to "get it", so to speak, especially regarding Moore's performance. This Bond is being hunted and is understandably on edge (although he is still suave) and this really comes through in Moore's portrayal. I know not every fan buys it.

    Anyway, Moore and Lee are excellent, especially in the lunch scene together, but then there is all the silly stuff (Hip's nieces, I'm looking at you!) that unfortunately drags the film down for me. In the end, I have it in the 14th spot.

    TMWTGG was my bottom film for a long time. But then Eon kept making clunkers.

    Because of Barry, Maibaum, etc. TMWTGG does have some "old Bond team" alchemy that more recent entries lack.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2021 Posts: 10,592
    TND is filled with childhood nostalgia for me. It can be a bit vanilla at times but it has some great action (Carver’s HQ and motorcycle chase) and I love Arnold’s score. I’m also in the minority who enjoys Crow’s theme song. I find it to be Pierce’s worst performance of his four films but I still find him incredibly charismatic in it (probably speaks to how much I love Brosnan in the role). I don’t even mind the Paris/Bond subplot but I can’t help but wish it was Natalia instead of a new character we’ve never heard of. Also,TND has some beautiful cinematography.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,334
    I know they planned on Paris being Natalia but I am wondering which other Bond girls would fit that role...possibly someone like Pam?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    echo wrote: »
    I know they planned on Paris being Natalia but I am wondering which other Bond girls would fit that role...possibly someone like Pam?

    Sylvia Trench was considered for a while.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,487
    I hoped TND would be ranked better than MR.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    echo wrote: »
    I know they planned on Paris being Natalia but I am wondering which other Bond girls would fit that role...possibly someone like Pam?
    I guess Natalia happening to marry a media mogul like Carver would feel a bit contrived. Maybe if there was more focus on Carver’s use of the internet then they could have integrated Natalia’s programming expertise into the plot.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 2021 Posts: 6,334
    My guess is that Eon ultimately didn't want to take away from a previous film by killing its love interest off in another film...
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