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Denis Villeneuve's DUNE (2021)

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  • GetCarterGetCarter
    edited October 2021 Posts: 386
    I prefer what Lynch brought to the 1984 version.

    The 2021 release is breathtakingly elegant in almost every technical department, but it just isn’t very exciting or suspenseful.

    The Gom Jabbar scene is a pretty good case in point. The 1984 scene has a visceral impact - we genuinely fear for Paul’s hand. The 2021 scene is remote, bloodless. Artfully directed but ultimately limp in its emotional impact. There’s a YouTube video that runs the scene side by side.

    Similar differences can be observed throughout both entries. Lynch’s movie has a handful of pretty significant flaws, but it could never be accused of being dull. Alas, I’m not sure DV’s vision escapes such criticism.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    GetCarter wrote: »
    I prefer what Lynch brought to the 1984 version.

    The 2021 release is breathtakingly elegant in almost every technical department, but it just isn’t very exciting or suspenseful.

    The Gom Jabbar scene is a pretty good case in point. The 1984 scene has a visceral impact - we genuinely fear for Paul’s hand. The 2021 scene is remote, bloodless. Artfully directed but ultimately limp in its emotional impact. There’s a YouTube video that runs the scene side by side.

    Similar differences can be observed throughout both entries. Lynch’s movie has a handful of pretty significant flaws, but it could never be accused of being dull. Alas, I’m not sure DV’s vision escapes such criticism.

    Lynch's version was imperfect, but never boring. Why do I keep coming back to it? OH..... ;)
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,970
    GetCarter wrote: »
    The Gom Jabbar scene is a pretty good case in point. The 1984 scene has a visceral impact - we genuinely fear for Paul’s hand. The 2021 scene is remote, bloodless. Artfully directed but ultimately limp in its emotional impact. There’s a YouTube video that runs the scene side by side.
    See I actually prefer the 2021 version, and it's one of my favourite scenes of the whole film. Firstly, the performances by Chalamet, Rampling, and especially Ferguson are perfect. I love the way the scene cuts back and forth between the test and Jessica. I also feel the 1984 version was more surface-level in its interpretation, and I feel showing the pain inflicted on Paul's hand is a mistake. The simple effectiveness of letting Paul's pain sell you on what is happening, to then show his unscathed hand from the boxes to me, just speaks to the power of the Bene Gesserit, and speaks to the idea that fear is the mind killer, because we're left to imagine what is going on as opposed to being shown, which in many ways causes more fear.
  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    Denbigh wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    The Gom Jabbar scene is a pretty good case in point. The 1984 scene has a visceral impact - we genuinely fear for Paul’s hand. The 2021 scene is remote, bloodless. Artfully directed but ultimately limp in its emotional impact. There’s a YouTube video that runs the scene side by side.
    See I actually prefer the 2021 version, and it's one of my favourite scenes of the whole film. Firstly, the performances by Chalamet, Rampling, and especially Ferguson are perfect. I love the way the scene cuts back and forth between the test and Jessica. I also feel the 1984 version was more surface-level in its interpretation, and I feel showing the pain inflicted on Paul's hand is a mistake. The simple effectiveness of letting Paul's pain sell you on what is happening, to then show his unscathed hand from the boxes to me, just speaks to the power of the Bene Gesserit, and speaks to the idea that fear is the mind killer, because we're left to imagine what is going on as opposed to being shown, which in my ways causes more fear.

    This is an interesting counterpoint and certainly fits with the notion of how the Bene Gesserit operate. Cheers

  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    chrisisall wrote: »
    GetCarter wrote: »
    I prefer what Lynch brought to the 1984 version.

    The 2021 release is breathtakingly elegant in almost every technical department, but it just isn’t very exciting or suspenseful.

    The Gom Jabbar scene is a pretty good case in point. The 1984 scene has a visceral impact - we genuinely fear for Paul’s hand. The 2021 scene is remote, bloodless. Artfully directed but ultimately limp in its emotional impact. There’s a YouTube video that runs the scene side by side.

    Similar differences can be observed throughout both entries. Lynch’s movie has a handful of pretty significant flaws, but it could never be accused of being dull. Alas, I’m not sure DV’s vision escapes such criticism.

    Lynch's version was imperfect, but never boring. Why do I keep coming back to it? OH..... ;)

    I find it endlessly rewatchable.

    Far prefer the Toto soundtrack too.

  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    Well, I've now seen it twice in one weekend. And it never failed to impress me.

    And I had the chance to go see NTTD again... and went with Dune instead.

    How depressing that choice was, as a Bond fan. But I'm sure I will see NTTD again soon. And rejoice for the first hour, and be depressed by the next two.

    But Dune was great! :)
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    i've been saying since Prisoners that Villeneuve should do a Bond
  • TheBondFanTheBondFan
    edited October 2021 Posts: 822
    GetCarter wrote: »
    I prefer what Lynch brought to the 1984 version.

    The 2021 release is breathtakingly elegant in almost every technical department, but it just isn’t very exciting or suspenseful.

    The Gom Jabbar scene is a pretty good case in point. The 1984 scene has a visceral impact - we genuinely fear for Paul’s hand. The 2021 scene is remote, bloodless. Artfully directed but ultimately limp in its emotional impact. There’s a YouTube video that runs the scene side by side.

    Similar differences can be observed throughout both entries. Lynch’s movie has a handful of pretty significant flaws, but it could never be accused of being dull. Alas, I’m not sure DV’s vision escapes such criticism.

    I completely agree. The 2021 film felt like something I've seen before (and I don't mean because I've seen the 1984 one), especially the artistic direction felt unoriginal. Lynch's Dune just feels more inventive to me, and I love the weirdness and surrealism he brings.

    A major disappointment for me in the new film was the bending of space time for travel, which I found to be much more engaging in Lynch's film, if anything because it was so weird and out of left field that I was taken in. DV's version of this concept just amounted to a portal. It gets the job done, but isn't original.


    Edit: also the Lynch version wins for me on score and cast/performances
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,427
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, I've now seen it twice in one weekend. And it never failed to impress me.

    And I had the chance to go see NTTD again... and went with Dune instead.

    How depressing that choice was, as a Bond fan. But I'm sure I will see NTTD again soon. And rejoice for the first hour, and be depressed by the next two.

    But Dune was great! :)

    Am dismayed to hear that Univex, as you come across as one of the most passionate Bond fans!
    I really advise you to try and see NTTD again. I, like you, felt a lot underwhelmed on first seeing it, but having watched it three times now, I do think it improves! Not the masterpiece its being made out by some, but very watchable now! Hope to Dune myself this week, though am heading for a Covid test this afternoon, which might put the brakes on things!!

  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, I've now seen it twice in one weekend. And it never failed to impress me.

    And I had the chance to go see NTTD again... and went with Dune instead.

    How depressing that choice was, as a Bond fan. But I'm sure I will see NTTD again soon. And rejoice for the first hour, and be depressed by the next two.

    But Dune was great! :)

    Am dismayed to hear that Univex, as you come across as one of the most passionate Bond fans!
    I really advise you to try and see NTTD again. I, like you, felt a lot underwhelmed on first seeing it, but having watched it three times now, I do think it improves! Not the masterpiece its being made out by some, but very watchable now! Hope to Dune myself this week, though am heading for a Covid test this afternoon, which might put the brakes on things!!

    Thanks, @Mathis1. And I am, I really am that passionate about Bond. I'm planning on seeing it next week, as my local cinema had lighting and focus issues on my first viewing and they have corrected it since. I hope I enjoy it more on my second viewing :)
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,427
    Univex wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Univex wrote: »
    Well, I've now seen it twice in one weekend. And it never failed to impress me.

    And I had the chance to go see NTTD again... and went with Dune instead.

    How depressing that choice was, as a Bond fan. But I'm sure I will see NTTD again soon. And rejoice for the first hour, and be depressed by the next two.

    But Dune was great! :)

    Am dismayed to hear that Univex, as you come across as one of the most passionate Bond fans!
    I really advise you to try and see NTTD again. I, like you, felt a lot underwhelmed on first seeing it, but having watched it three times now, I do think it improves! Not the masterpiece its being made out by some, but very watchable now! Hope to Dune myself this week, though am heading for a Covid test this afternoon, which might put the brakes on things!!

    Thanks, @Mathis1. And I am, I really am that passionate about Bond. I'm planning on seeing it next week, as my local cinema had lighting and focus issues on my first viewing and they have corrected it since. I hope I enjoy it more on my second viewing :)

    Good for you mate! Cant wait to read your thoughts on it!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    I really wanted to like this film. I love Denis Villeneuve's work. But I didn't (at least not yet*); it's just as bad as the 1984 version, which really begs the questions about the ability to genuinely adapt that book.

    And we have another part coming. (We think.)

    * I plan to rewatch it and see if my opinion changes.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    TripAces wrote: »
    I really wanted to like this film. I love Denis Villeneuve's work. But I didn't (at least not yet*); it's just as bad as the 1984 version, which really begs the questions about the ability to genuinely adapt that book.

    And we have another part coming. (We think.)

    * I plan to rewatch it and see if my opinion changes.


    I wanted to love it too, but I was underwhelmed. It is beautiful, atmospheric and the score is nice, but where are the interesting characters I am supposed to like or connect with? I find it almost bizarre they have cast so many great actors to play so empty, superficial roles. Trying to make the death of a character we have hardly seen into a dramatic emotional moment didn't exactly work for me, sorry...
  • kentonkenton
    Posts: 47
    Loved it
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    Great film and looking forward to what happens next. Also, I obviously missed something but wth happened to Gurney? Did he get slaughtered leading the charge? I honestly don't recall.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    ‘Dune’ Sequel Greenlit By Legendary, Pic Will Be Given Theatrical Window At Warner Bros:

    https://deadline.com/2021/10/dune-sequel-greenlit-by-legendary-warner-bros-theatrical-release-1234862383/
  • vittoriacolonavittoriacolona Canada
    Posts: 25
    I liked it a lot. It was visually appealing. The problem with the film is that this film is mostly a set up (which I knew from a review I saw) so I was not expecting that much.

    I never saw the 1984. But I have seen the Syfy mini series that was released in 2001 along with the sequel. And it's the exact same faithful story. But I am so happy that it's doing well box office wise. It might give LF the permission to continue making SW films that are a bit more mature and grown up in tone. And not just cater to fans who want to see OT/CW on repeat.

    It would be nice if we not only get a 2nd half of the book. But also Dune Messiah and Children of Dune and round out the entire Attreides saga.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    Fitting that they would announce Part Two right before my screening.

    My initial reaction was to rank it 10th (9th if Godfather I & II are viewed as "one" film which they are on my list) of all time. I adjusted that to just shy of my top 25 only because I think this film will be in a similar situation for me where I consider both parts one entity, and it doesn't feel right calling this a top 10 film of all time until I know how the second half is.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    Fitting that they would announce Part Two right before my screening.

    My initial reaction was to rank it 10th (9th if Godfather I & II are viewed as "one" film which they are on my list) of all time. I adjusted that to just shy of my top 25 only because I think this film will be in a similar situation for me where I consider both parts one entity, and it doesn't feel right calling this a top 10 film of all time until I know how the second half is.

    Off topic, but interesting that you keep an all-time-best-movies list. What are your other choices?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I finally saw this yesterday and was completely engrossed and floored by it. I know nothing of Lynch's original adaptation, nor the source material, so I was pretty confused and lost, but after 15 minutes or so, I was all in and loving the story and all of the world-building on display. I wasn't overly excited for it after those trailers but I'm glad my lower expectations helped me enjoy it even more. I can't wait to revisit it, especially in 4K.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,402
    zebrafish wrote: »
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    Fitting that they would announce Part Two right before my screening.

    My initial reaction was to rank it 10th (9th if Godfather I & II are viewed as "one" film which they are on my list) of all time. I adjusted that to just shy of my top 25 only because I think this film will be in a similar situation for me where I consider both parts one entity, and it doesn't feel right calling this a top 10 film of all time until I know how the second half is.

    Off topic, but interesting that you keep an all-time-best-movies list. What are your other choices?

    This is my in-progress ranking of every film I have ever given 5 stars (aka 10/10) to. I've gotten up to about #200 and am going one-by-one down the list (it's pretty simple, if I think that, say, film #207 is better than #206, I'll re-rank it until it hits a film I don't think it deserves to be above). So I'd say at this point that at least my top 30 are solidified and won't have any surprise entrances from anything that currently sits lower in the list.

    For what it's worth, the top 10 currently are:

    #1: Lawrence of Arabia
    #2: Blade Runner 2049
    #3: The Godfather
    #4: The Godfather Part II
    #5: Chinatown
    #6: 2001: a space odyssey
    #7: Jackie Brown
    #8: The Bridge on the River Kwai
    #9: It's a Wonderful Life
    #10: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
    #11 (#10 if you condense #3 and #4 into one entry): The Long Goodbye

    I have a Letterboxd account under the same username where I have rated everything I have ever watched (well, to my memory, each month I probably find about a dozen more movies that I've seen but hadn't remembered prior to that).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    zebrafish wrote: »
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    Fitting that they would announce Part Two right before my screening.

    My initial reaction was to rank it 10th (9th if Godfather I & II are viewed as "one" film which they are on my list) of all time. I adjusted that to just shy of my top 25 only because I think this film will be in a similar situation for me where I consider both parts one entity, and it doesn't feel right calling this a top 10 film of all time until I know how the second half is.

    Off topic, but interesting that you keep an all-time-best-movies list. What are your other choices?

    This is my in-progress ranking of every film I have ever given 5 stars (aka 10/10) to. I've gotten up to about #200 and am going one-by-one down the list (it's pretty simple, if I think that, say, film #207 is better than #206, I'll re-rank it until it hits a film I don't think it deserves to be above). So I'd say at this point that at least my top 30 are solidified and won't have any surprise entrances from anything that currently sits lower in the list.

    For what it's worth, the top 10 currently are:

    #1: Lawrence of Arabia
    #2: Blade Runner 2049
    #3: The Godfather
    #4: The Godfather Part II
    #5: Chinatown
    #6: 2001: a space odyssey
    #7: Jackie Brown
    #8: The Bridge on the River Kwai
    #9: It's a Wonderful Life
    #10: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
    #11 (#10 if you condense #3 and #4 into one entry): The Long Goodbye

    I have a Letterboxd account under the same username where I have rated everything I have ever watched (well, to my memory, each month I probably find about a dozen more movies that I've seen but hadn't remembered prior to that).

    A lot of classics here but I love seeing both Jackie Brown and The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford on your list especially!
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    Some nice surprises in there: Jackie Brown, of all the Tarantinos! Also agree with Chinatown!
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    @StirredNotShaken

    Interesting list. Surprised to see Blade Runner 2049 so high. Out of curosity, where is NTTD in your ranking?
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    jobo wrote: »
    @StirredNotShaken

    Interesting list. Surprised to see Blade Runner 2049 so high. Out of curosity, where is NTTD in your ranking?

    17th, or 16th if you apply the same rationale about The Godfather films. That does feel like something of a ceiling for it, though, those 15/16 films above it more or less only shift among one another.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    zebrafish wrote: »
    StirredNotShaken wrote: »
    Fitting that they would announce Part Two right before my screening.

    My initial reaction was to rank it 10th (9th if Godfather I & II are viewed as "one" film which they are on my list) of all time. I adjusted that to just shy of my top 25 only because I think this film will be in a similar situation for me where I consider both parts one entity, and it doesn't feel right calling this a top 10 film of all time until I know how the second half is.

    Off topic, but interesting that you keep an all-time-best-movies list. What are your other choices?

    This is my in-progress ranking of every film I have ever given 5 stars (aka 10/10) to. I've gotten up to about #200 and am going one-by-one down the list (it's pretty simple, if I think that, say, film #207 is better than #206, I'll re-rank it until it hits a film I don't think it deserves to be above). So I'd say at this point that at least my top 30 are solidified and won't have any surprise entrances from anything that currently sits lower in the list.

    For what it's worth, the top 10 currently are:

    #1: Lawrence of Arabia
    #2: Blade Runner 2049
    #3: The Godfather
    #4: The Godfather Part II
    #5: Chinatown
    #6: 2001: a space odyssey
    #7: Jackie Brown
    #8: The Bridge on the River Kwai
    #9: It's a Wonderful Life
    #10: The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
    #11 (#10 if you condense #3 and #4 into one entry): The Long Goodbye

    I have a Letterboxd account under the same username where I have rated everything I have ever watched (well, to my memory, each month I probably find about a dozen more movies that I've seen but hadn't remembered prior to that).

    A man of good taste, you are. Good to see your n10 in a list. A gorgeous film. Also, numbers 6 and 9. And your n1 is my n1.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    ‘Dune’ Sequel Greenlit By Legendary, Pic Will Be Given Theatrical Window At Warner Bros:

    https://deadline.com/2021/10/dune-sequel-greenlit-by-legendary-warner-bros-theatrical-release-1234862383/

    And Villeneuve stated again that he envisioned Paul's journey as a three-parter. After Dune: Part Two he wants to adapt Herbert second Dune book, Dune Messiah, that is set twelve years later the first one.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Loved it. Agree with others here that it has a throwback, almost David Lean-like-quality to it. Epic, in the genuine sense of the word.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Just saw it last night. I have to say it was VERY good, and exceeded my expectations. The Voice was especially well done. Jason's Idaho was a kick! The kid playing Paul didn't suck, either! Zendaya was wasted on me though- she's the new 'it' girl, it seems. She's better when she has lots of dialogue like in the Spider-Man movies. Denis clearly has a love for the source material, but he ends up showing us a lot & telling us less. No use of voice-overs was a mistake, I think. If you haven't read the novel, & you haven't seen the Lynch version, you are missing out on a lot of character & inner conflict. I'd rate it as being as an instant classic, however I personally like Lynch's version a good bit more only because it's more off the wall & has the characters in our faces with more intensity.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Just saw it last night. I have to say it was VERY good, and exceeded my expectations. The Voice was especially well done. Jason's Idaho was a kick! The kid playing Paul didn't suck, either! Zendaya was wasted on me though- she's the new 'it' girl, it seems. She's better when she has lots of dialogue like in the Spider-Man movies. Denis clearly has a love for the source material, but he ends up showing us a lot & telling us less. No use of voice-overs was a mistake, I think. If you haven't read the novel, & you haven't seen the Lynch version, you are missing out on a lot of character & inner conflict. I'd rate it as being as an instant classic, however I personally like Lynch's version a good bit more only because it's more off the wall & has the characters in our faces with more intensity.


    That is interesting. For me, what Dune was missing in order to be a truly great film was more depth to the characters. As it stands it felt a little cold and superficial.
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