And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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Comments

  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,016
    TLD definitely. A perfect intro to Daltons Bond. That great shot as Dalton reacts to the scream. Followed by a tremendous action sequence that shows Dalton wasn't afraid to be in the thick of the action.

    I remember watching the PTS for the first time at the cinema and being really excited about Daltons 007.
  • Posts: 5,994
    But he is not introduced in that PTS, and that's the point. Otherwise, you could also throw in Sean Connery in GF, one of my personal favourite, but completely irrelevant for the discussion.

    So, my vote goes to OHMSS, with CR '06 as a strong contender.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 532
    Gonna throw my vote in for TLD’s as well. Just a perfectly structured sequence for maximizing the introduction of a new Bond AND being a stunner of a setpiece. Casino Royale is very close for how bold it is, but it has a little less meat to it. GoldenEye has an awesome PTS, but, dam jump aside, I don’t think it functions as well as a intro to a new Bond. OHMSS’s is solid, I like the Connery homage with the different shots that reveal bits of Lazenby before the full reveal, but it has some awkward bits and though I do like the fight on the beach it’s not as spectacular as TLD’s nor as fantastically jarring as Casino Royale’s.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Well, it won't make much of a difference, and call it nostalgia for me personally, but I think the Bondie should go to Brosnan. The jump is fantastic (well shot as well), and still we haven't seen his face, we're folloing a dark shadow. love it.
  • Posts: 7,507
    TLD for me as well, although it feels harsh to deny CR a vote.
  • Posts: 4,166
    Gotta go with TLD. I feel it's the first time the series was ever able to really nail an introduction to a new Bond. You'd had Connery's iconic introduction in DN, which was great, but Lazenby's in OHMSS felt like a rehash of it with a weaker lead. It doesn't help that the film and the PTS/title sequence constantly try to remind you of the previous movies, I suppose as a way to hammer home that this is still the same 'James Bond'. Moore's introduction in LALD was a bit unceremonious and comedic, which I suppose is a testament to his screen presence that the producers felt they were able to do this.

    With TLD, however, it's perfect. There's some clever subversion with the fact that the other 00 agents being killed off look kind of 'Bond-like', and you have that wonderful reveal of Dalton's Bond with him turning/the camera moving towards him. It was different, but distinctive.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    The Dove has flapped his wings back to the stage and is prepared to announce the winner. The Bondie for Best PTS that introduces a new James Bond is....The Living Daylights introducing Timothy Dalton Coming to the stage to accept the award is Timothy Dalton, he leaps over the festooned stage and grabs the Bondie!

    Here are the academy votes tallied!
    • Goldeneye 2 votes
    • The Living Daylights 13 votes
    • Casino Royale 2 votes
    • On Her Majesty's Secret Service 1 vote

    Lets stay on the Bondie side of things and award best cold hearted death by Bond. I was reminded in a recent podcast of some brutal deaths in LTK some that Bond did while not holding a license to kill!

    Bond sometimes has to off his man in the heat of the moment, but sometimes he seems to take a small delight in sending a heavy to their death. Is Bond a sadist? Who knows but these kills show a more brutal side to our favourite spy!

    The nominees are:
    • Tie one on The Spy Who Loved Me The death of Sandor is a cold blooded moment in a "light" Roger Moore film. the casual flip of the tie and the quip after..."What a helpful chap!." Has a prone and lifeless Sandor lies on the Egyptian streets
    • Kick him off from For Your Eyes Only The death of Loque is a turning point for the series. The clip often finds itself into Bond retrospectives. Moore with the kick that sends the car careening down to the rocks. Loque has the face of a scared man and is last seen sliding out the open window of the car.
    • Death sometimes bleeds The death of Mr. Slate in QOS was handled in a brutal way. After a bloodied fight in the hotel room (how did this ruckus not bring someone to the room?) Bond squeezes and Slate bleeds out on the tile floor. Bond casually cleans up, and leaves the scene. Brutal stuff and a sign that Craig's Bond is really a blunt instrument.
    • Counting to murder Connery came to the screen at a time where violence was not over the top. The offing of Professor Dent sets the tone for the series and while we may never see Bond shoot someone in the back, here is it executed coldly and objectively. I love the imagery, smoke filling the air, Bond with his shirt and tie. Dent obviously out of his depth. This is cold blooded stuff!
    • Finders Keepers I could have picked many nominees from LTK. I particularly like this less celebrated kill by Bond. The killing of Kilifer. Thinking he has the upper hand Kilifer reveals what a slime he has been. Bond virtually spits "You keep it OLD Buddy" while tossing the suitcase with 2 million dollars. Kilifer dies by his greed. Maybe not the most impactful death but one that shows Bond is pissed!

    There you have it, a list of nominees and a brand new award. What do the esteemed members of the Mi6 academy think? which kill by Bond is particularly cold blooded?

    If you have a write in candidate please let us know! Interesting that two Moore kills make it to the list.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,585
    I think Elektra's demise is worth a mention here, but I'm gonna go with Bond killing Dent. Taking into account that the award says 'best' and not 'most' cold-blooded kill, I can think of no more atmospheric moment among the nominees than Bond sitting with loosened tie, igniting a new durry with the old, still-smouldering stub from the ashtray and some no-nonsense dialogue while Dent inches an empty M1911 towards his reach in vain. To end the scene, Connery shows disappointment and regret as he blows smoke from the suppressor.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 2,165
    I'd pitch for the killing of Dryden in CR. Bond calmly shoots an unarmed man sat in a chair. Under orders of course. But very cold blooded. Bang. Yes, considerably. * Walks Out * Murder is employment.
  • Posts: 4,166
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    I love how Dalton spits the line out at Killifer, but I'll have to go with Dent. May be a bit of a jump from the Book Bond, but brilliant cinema.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 4,166
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.
  • Posts: 4,166
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.

    I suppose one of the things I find most annoying about FYEO is that the material had so much potential to explore some pretty interesting ideas. Revenge is a pretty big theme in the film, and not only is it seen with Melina, it's also there in the feud between Columbo and Kristatos and even the PTS with Bond killing 'Blofeld'. I'm not saying that the film, or indeed any Bond film, should be a cautionary tale about revenge, but I think it should at least be consistent with what it's trying to explore.

    I just don't buy that Bond, even Moore's Bond, would ever wax lyrical and quote Chinese Proverbs. As you said he's a trained killer. He doesn't need to be abstract about what can happen when you pursue revenge and get involved with dangerous people, he knows. Would he not be more likely to try and dissuade Melina from getting involved with such logic? Ie. "You don't want to get involved with these kinds of people. Trust me, you have a life ahead of you, just forget about this and let me handle it" etc. I personally think seeing Moore's Bond take this line with Melina would have been more impactful as he wouldn't have been taking the high ground (it simply doesn't work when before and after he's seen killing out of revenge without consequence).
  • Posts: 7,434
    Its a toss up between QOS and DN. Certainly chilling to watch Bond waiting for Slate to die after a brief but brutal fight scene, yet I think I will go with Dr. No, that extra shot in the back for Dent and then Bond calmly removing the silencer, was pretty strong stuff! Cold blooded indeed!
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.

    I suppose one of the things I find most annoying about FYEO is that the material had so much potential to explore some pretty interesting ideas. Revenge is a pretty big theme in the film, and not only is it seen with Melina, it's also there in the feud between Columbo and Kristatos and even the PTS with Bond killing 'Blofeld'. I'm not saying that the film, or indeed any Bond film, should be a cautionary tale about revenge, but I think it should at least be consistent with what it's trying to explore.

    I just don't buy that Bond, even Moore's Bond, would ever wax lyrical and quote Chinese Proverbs. As you said he's a trained killer. He doesn't need to be abstract about what can happen when you pursue revenge and get involved with dangerous people, he knows. Would he not be more likely to try and dissuade Melina from getting involved with such logic? Ie. "You don't want to get involved with these kinds of people. Trust me, you have a life ahead of you, just forget about this and let me handle it" etc. I personally think seeing Moore's Bond take this line with Melina would have been more impactful as he wouldn't have been taking the high ground (it simply doesn't work when before and after he's seen killing out of revenge without consequence).
    Yeah, the 'dig two graves' bit is almost funny in how blatantly it never applied to him before.
  • Posts: 4,166
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.

    I suppose one of the things I find most annoying about FYEO is that the material had so much potential to explore some pretty interesting ideas. Revenge is a pretty big theme in the film, and not only is it seen with Melina, it's also there in the feud between Columbo and Kristatos and even the PTS with Bond killing 'Blofeld'. I'm not saying that the film, or indeed any Bond film, should be a cautionary tale about revenge, but I think it should at least be consistent with what it's trying to explore.

    I just don't buy that Bond, even Moore's Bond, would ever wax lyrical and quote Chinese Proverbs. As you said he's a trained killer. He doesn't need to be abstract about what can happen when you pursue revenge and get involved with dangerous people, he knows. Would he not be more likely to try and dissuade Melina from getting involved with such logic? Ie. "You don't want to get involved with these kinds of people. Trust me, you have a life ahead of you, just forget about this and let me handle it" etc. I personally think seeing Moore's Bond take this line with Melina would have been more impactful as he wouldn't have been taking the high ground (it simply doesn't work when before and after he's seen killing out of revenge without consequence).
    Yeah, the 'dig two graves' bit is almost funny in how blatantly it never applied to him before.

    Yes, I do wonder if the writers were aware of the irony of it at the time given the rest of the film. Perhaps they were but simply didn't care because it's a Bond film...
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.

    I suppose one of the things I find most annoying about FYEO is that the material had so much potential to explore some pretty interesting ideas. Revenge is a pretty big theme in the film, and not only is it seen with Melina, it's also there in the feud between Columbo and Kristatos and even the PTS with Bond killing 'Blofeld'. I'm not saying that the film, or indeed any Bond film, should be a cautionary tale about revenge, but I think it should at least be consistent with what it's trying to explore.

    I just don't buy that Bond, even Moore's Bond, would ever wax lyrical and quote Chinese Proverbs. As you said he's a trained killer. He doesn't need to be abstract about what can happen when you pursue revenge and get involved with dangerous people, he knows. Would he not be more likely to try and dissuade Melina from getting involved with such logic? Ie. "You don't want to get involved with these kinds of people. Trust me, you have a life ahead of you, just forget about this and let me handle it" etc. I personally think seeing Moore's Bond take this line with Melina would have been more impactful as he wouldn't have been taking the high ground (it simply doesn't work when before and after he's seen killing out of revenge without consequence).
    Yeah, the 'dig two graves' bit is almost funny in how blatantly it never applied to him before.

    Yes, I do wonder if the writers were aware of the irony of it at the time given the rest of the film. Perhaps they were but simply didn't care because it's a Bond film...
    Hey, maybe at the beginning of DAF Bond did dig two graves. One for Blofeld, and one for all the henchmen.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Some great choices among these. It's tough, because these are all good, but in the end I go with the killing of Slate in QOS. Bond stabs him in an artery and calmly waits while he bleeds out, feeling Slate's pulse so he knows when he's dead. It doesn't get much more cold and clinical than that.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    While I very much like Dalton’s scene (you can really feel how personal it is to him), Connery comes out on top yet again.
    I said it many times already and I’ll say it again: the man was ruthless cool personified. The way he toyed with Dent who foolishly thought he could get the drop on him and then putting that extra bullet into Dent’s body, which could also be seen as a personal statement in response to Strangeways’ murder.
    Flawless scene.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    It's between QOS and DN...

    I'm going with Connery killing Dent, because after 60 years, this scene holds up beautifuly... A couple years ago, I did a marathon with my eldest son-- he would have been 19... When he saw Dent eating bullets, he was wowed by the scene, and incredulous at the same time.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I love all of these, but think I will go with TSWLM for this one. Beautifully shot scene, and Bond is really cold here and dishonest.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    When it comes to TSWLM, it's probably his killing of Stromberg for me, the way he shot him, it's very cold.

    But, the winner here has to be Connery's killing of Dent in Dr. No, it's classic but that's scene was the perfect meaning of Coldness.
    And that line " That's Smith and Wesson, and you've had your six" with a cigarette on Bond's mouth, it's very professional and relaxed.

    Anyway, where's Bond's killing of Elektra in TWINE? That's the coldest scene that Brosnan's Bond could do.
  • Connery and the death of Professor Dent. That’s scene is Classic 007.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    R1s1ngs0n wrote: »
    I’ll say it again: the man was ruthless cool personified.
    Can't argue with that.
  • Posts: 5,994
    The death of Professor Dent for me too. It showed that Bond had a License to Kill, and wasn't afraid of using it.
  • Posts: 1,917
    It's necessary to show why Bond has OO status from time to time and not just in offing a bunch of anonymous henchmen. DN is my choice for several reasons.

    The advertising in 1962/63 established this is a character with a licence to kill; he ain't John Wayne. This is why the Dent scene was so important. People may forget that this was film Bond's first direct kill; the others were caused by other circumstances.

    The scene and Terence Young's direction are perfection. People sometimes complain the Bond films aren't glamorous enough, but this establishes why having the OO status isn't all fun and quips. Bond sits alone playing solitaire and you know he probably had to be fighting some nerves. But the cool Bond shows is as important.

    The cigarette in his mouth is a nice touch. I'm sure numerous people over the years probably wondered why Bond didn't just arrest and interrogate Dent. Given how Mr. Jones ended up, it's understandable and to, again, establish the ugly side of Bond's profession. His blowing off the smoke of the silencer and the fade out are perfect. No unnecessary quip. The scene speaks for itself.

    Not to put down another scene, but I often see the TWINE execution of Elektra getting a lot of praise, but the "I never miss" line was so unnecessary by comparison. First thing I think is, well, from that range I hope you wouldn't and the line just doesn't work in any context. It's why the silence in DN after the Dent execution speaks volumes. It's still effective 60 years later. I can't imagine how shocked an audience member in 1962/63 reacted to that.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.

    I suppose one of the things I find most annoying about FYEO is that the material had so much potential to explore some pretty interesting ideas. Revenge is a pretty big theme in the film, and not only is it seen with Melina, it's also there in the feud between Columbo and Kristatos and even the PTS with Bond killing 'Blofeld'. I'm not saying that the film, or indeed any Bond film, should be a cautionary tale about revenge, but I think it should at least be consistent with what it's trying to explore.

    I just don't buy that Bond, even Moore's Bond, would ever wax lyrical and quote Chinese Proverbs. As you said he's a trained killer. He doesn't need to be abstract about what can happen when you pursue revenge and get involved with dangerous people, he knows. Would he not be more likely to try and dissuade Melina from getting involved with such logic? Ie. "You don't want to get involved with these kinds of people. Trust me, you have a life ahead of you, just forget about this and let me handle it" etc. I personally think seeing Moore's Bond take this line with Melina would have been more impactful as he wouldn't have been taking the high ground (it simply doesn't work when before and after he's seen killing out of revenge without consequence).
    Yeah, the 'dig two graves' bit is almost funny in how blatantly it never applied to him before.

    Yes, I do wonder if the writers were aware of the irony of it at the time given the rest of the film. Perhaps they were but simply didn't care because it's a Bond film...

    There is a great interview with Maibaum in an early 80's Starlog magazine. In it he revealed that some of the lines added to the story were not what him and Wilson had written. Which makes me believe that either Moore or Glen decided to insert some lines to the script. One of the passages was the very Chinese proverb that you have mentioned.
  • The scene with Dent in DN gets my vote. Moore/Bond kicking Locque's car off the cliff takes second and Dalton's selling of the "old buddy" line comes in third for me. But as others have noted, you just can't beat Connery for ruthless cool.
  • Yeah, gotta go with Dent’s killing in Dr. No as well. Classic scene, and Bond has never been colder than that.
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