And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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  • Posts: 1,630
    The Dent shooting - and the non-glamorous part of the job - were set up well in DN by a few things. Bond set the trap - with the pillows in the bed. Then he sat where he would not be as much at risk, and ready to act once Dent fell into the trap. Then he got comfortable, and set cards out, expecting his wait to be lengthy. We see the clock and generally sense a significant amount of time has passed. We know Bond had to just sit and patiently wait a long time. When Bond hears Dent approach he puts down the cards and the light and gets ready. I do not recall a scene - not even the one in TLD where Bond ultimately chooses not to shoot Kara - where we get some hint of the young Bond during WWII waiting much, much longer for his shot from a distance. Nothing glamorous or exciting about a long wait for a brief opportunity to arise - yet being ready at any moment during that long wait.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,847
    These are all excellent choices. But I have to vote for Connery and Professor Dent.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I think for style as well, the Bond & Dent scene does it. The stylish approach covers Bond's cold-bloodedness on show. It was also modernized in CR's Bond & Dryden scene.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Another one for Dent in DN
  • Posts: 4,166
    thedove wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I've always been iffy about Bond killing in cold blood, or at least how he does it in most of the movies. I tend to empathise more with Fleming's Bond and his dislike/conflicted relationship with the subjects of death and assassination. I can certainly understand why readers of the books at the time would have found Bond shooting Dent in DN out of character in that sense. Honestly, as much as I like TSWLM Bond comes off as a bit of a psychopath to me in that scene. As for FYEO... well, justifying Loque's killing as a matter of revenge is nonsensical because Luigi, the man Bond claims to be avenging, is such a weak character who had little chemistry with Bond anyway (surely Bond would be more impacted by Lisl's death? Bizarre moment in what I consider to be one of the worst, most overrated films in the series). The QOS moment seems more like an accident rather than an intentional killing.

    For me, it's LTK. I can believe Bond would coldly kill a man out of revenge and anger, and the film sets up this premise believably and effectively.
    Yeah, Bond had more of a connection to Lisl than Luigi, but I love the moment anyway for the atmosphere. Plus in that moment he's still getting the killer of both, the pin just ties in with the latter.

    Perhaps it's just my general hatred of FYEO... I do find it somewhat amusing that Bond spends a chunk of the film wagging his finger and tutting at Melina about the pitfalls of revenge and then proceeds to do that later in the film...
    I do too, but in fairness Bond didn't pursue Loque out of revenge, the opportunity to take it came to him. And Melina isn't already a written off professional killer like he is, so he's more invested in trying to keep her off that path.

    I suppose one of the things I find most annoying about FYEO is that the material had so much potential to explore some pretty interesting ideas. Revenge is a pretty big theme in the film, and not only is it seen with Melina, it's also there in the feud between Columbo and Kristatos and even the PTS with Bond killing 'Blofeld'. I'm not saying that the film, or indeed any Bond film, should be a cautionary tale about revenge, but I think it should at least be consistent with what it's trying to explore.

    I just don't buy that Bond, even Moore's Bond, would ever wax lyrical and quote Chinese Proverbs. As you said he's a trained killer. He doesn't need to be abstract about what can happen when you pursue revenge and get involved with dangerous people, he knows. Would he not be more likely to try and dissuade Melina from getting involved with such logic? Ie. "You don't want to get involved with these kinds of people. Trust me, you have a life ahead of you, just forget about this and let me handle it" etc. I personally think seeing Moore's Bond take this line with Melina would have been more impactful as he wouldn't have been taking the high ground (it simply doesn't work when before and after he's seen killing out of revenge without consequence).
    Yeah, the 'dig two graves' bit is almost funny in how blatantly it never applied to him before.

    Yes, I do wonder if the writers were aware of the irony of it at the time given the rest of the film. Perhaps they were but simply didn't care because it's a Bond film...

    There is a great interview with Maibaum in an early 80's Starlog magazine. In it he revealed that some of the lines added to the story were not what him and Wilson had written. Which makes me believe that either Moore or Glen decided to insert some lines to the script. One of the passages was the very Chinese proverb that you have mentioned.

    That would make sense. Again, it never seemed consistent from a script perspective.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 342
    Got to agree that Dr No and Dent as the coldest kill, as many of the other nominations come at the end of some form of action or fight, where Bond’s blood would have been up.

    I would like to give a nod to TND’s Brosnan’s execution of Dr Kaufman
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Troy wrote: »
    I would like to give a nod to TND’s Brosnan’s execution of Dr Kaufman

    A great moment, and a far more suitable candidate than the Elektra kill I feel. The latter is also a great moment but I don't think it's as cold blooded as many seem to. If anything, Bond's blood is boiling at that point and Elektra has more than earned her demise. She is unarmed though, I suppose. So maybe that's enough.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited August 2022 Posts: 7,551
    My vote goes to Dent in Dr. No as well. Slate is not in cold blood; I think a better Craig option would have been Dryden.

    EDIT: Just re-read the question, and I suppose "cold hearted" kill might have a looser definition...
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    We are pleased to announce the Bondie for the coldest blooded kill by agent 007. The Bondie goes to Counting to murder Bond kills Dent from DN Accepting the award is Miss Taro who was recently released from the Jamaican jail!

    Here are the votes by the academy:
    • Bond kills Dent DN received 16 votes
    • Bond lets Slate bleed out received 1 vote
    • Kilfer gets to keep his money received 1 vote
    • Sandor is a helpful chap received 1 vote
    • Bond eliminates Kauffman received 1 vote (write in)
    • Bond earns his double-o with Dryden received 1 vote (write in)
    • Logue goes off the cliff received no votes!

    Time to give a kick in the shins to a worthy film, or is it un-worthy? The actors who have played Bond have had some great films to start their Bond portrayals, but their swan songs have been uneven.

    It is time to award a Klebbie to the film that was the worst send off of an actor playing Bond. We will only nominate actors who portrayed Bond longer than 2 films. Which means our nominees are:
    • Sean Connery says good bye officially in DAF! From a drag Blofeld, to some lazy special effects this film stumbles and bumbles the ending to one of the most gifted actors to portray double-o-7!
    • Roger takes AVTAK into the sunset. This film has Roger at age 57 playing against a young villain and an even younger leading lady. Top it off the film spends about 1/3 of its time dealing with horses and horse racing which has very little to do with the villains plot. Dropping the soap indeed!
    • Pierce decided to DAD! This film has dated jump cuts, a hammy cast and a ham strung story. A shame as the beginning showed promise, and then CGI surfing happened. Yikes!
    • Daniel kills Bond, literally in NTTD! The film is gorgeous and corrects many of the missteps of SP but this ending? Leaves many cold, is it enough for the voters to say it's the worst send off to an actor in the role of Bond?

    I would like the academy to base their vote on any criteria and to share their thinking with the fellow academy members. There are three weak films here, with one film that is highly regarded, if only for that ending! Okay dear academy members, how is getting the Klebbie for worst film ending for an actor playing Bond!?
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    thedove wrote: »
    We are pleased to announce the Bondie for the coldest blooded kill by agent 007. The Bondie goes to Counting to murder Bond kills Dent from DN Accepting the award is Miss Taro who was recently released from the Jamaican jail!

    Here are the votes by the academy:
    • Bond kills Dent DN received 16 votes
    • Bond lets Slate bleed out received 1 vote
    • Kilfer gets to keep his money received 1 vote
    • Sandor is a helpful chap received 1 vote
    • Bond eliminates Kauffman received 1 vote (write in)
    • Bond earns his double-o with Dryden received 1 vote (write in)
    • Logue goes off the cliff received no votes!

    Time to give a kick in the shins to a worthy film, or is it un-worthy? The actors who have played Bond have had some great films to start their Bond portrayals, but their swan songs have been uneven.

    It is time to award a Klebbie to the film that was the worst send off of an actor playing Bond. We will only nominate actors who portrayed Bond longer than 2 films. Which means our nominees are:
    • Sean Connery says good bye officially in DAF! From a drag Blofeld, to some lazy special effects this film stumbles and bumbles the ending to one of the most gifted actors to portray double-o-7!
    • Roger takes AVTAK into the sunset. This film has Roger at age 57 playing against a young villain and an even younger leading lady. Top it off the film spends about 1/3 of its time dealing with horses and horse racing which has very little to do with the villains plot. Dropping the soap indeed!
    • Pierce decided to DAD! This film has dated jump cuts, a hammy cast and a ham strung story. A shame as the beginning showed promise, and then CGI surfing happened. Yikes!
    • Daniel kills Bond, literally in NTTD! The film is gorgeous and corrects many of the missteps of SP but this ending? Leaves many cold, is it enough for the voters to say it's the worst send off to an actor in the role of Bond?

    I would like the academy to base their vote on any criteria and to share their thinking with the fellow academy members. There are three weak films here, with one film that is highly regarded, if only for that ending! Okay dear academy members, how is getting the Klebbie for worst film ending for an actor playing Bond!?
    DAF is at least fun if you try and ignore OHMSS, as the film did.

    Moore's Bond vs Walken's Zorin is the best component of AVTAK IMO. I've linked this thread a few times recently but I'll do it once more https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/18721/bonds-final-mission-avtak-or/p1.

    I don't like the ending but NTTD is still a very well made movie.

    My vote goes to DAD. Brosnan deserved a better sendoff.
  • Sign me up for AVTAK. Although both DAF and DAD give it a run for its money.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    thedove wrote: »
    We are pleased to announce the Bondie for the coldest blooded kill by agent 007. The Bondie goes to Counting to murder Bond kills Dent from DN Accepting the award is Miss Taro who was recently released from the Jamaican jail!

    Here are the votes by the academy:
    • Bond kills Dent DN received 16 votes
    • Bond lets Slate bleed out received 1 vote
    • Kilfer gets to keep his money received 1 vote
    • Sandor is a helpful chap received 1 vote
    • Bond eliminates Kauffman received 1 vote (write in)
    • Bond earns his double-o with Dryden received 1 vote (write in)
    • Logue goes off the cliff received no votes!

    Time to give a kick in the shins to a worthy film, or is it un-worthy? The actors who have played Bond have had some great films to start their Bond portrayals, but their swan songs have been uneven.

    It is time to award a Klebbie to the film that was the worst send off of an actor playing Bond. We will only nominate actors who portrayed Bond longer than 2 films. Which means our nominees are:
    • Sean Connery says good bye officially in DAF! From a drag Blofeld, to some lazy special effects this film stumbles and bumbles the ending to one of the most gifted actors to portray double-o-7!
    • Roger takes AVTAK into the sunset. This film has Roger at age 57 playing against a young villain and an even younger leading lady. Top it off the film spends about 1/3 of its time dealing with horses and horse racing which has very little to do with the villains plot. Dropping the soap indeed!
    • Pierce decided to DAD! This film has dated jump cuts, a hammy cast and a ham strung story. A shame as the beginning showed promise, and then CGI surfing happened. Yikes!
    • Daniel kills Bond, literally in NTTD! The film is gorgeous and corrects many of the missteps of SP but this ending? Leaves many cold, is it enough for the voters to say it's the worst send off to an actor in the role of Bond?

    I would like the academy to base their vote on any criteria and to share their thinking with the fellow academy members. There are three weak films here, with one film that is highly regarded, if only for that ending! Okay dear academy members, how is getting the Klebbie for worst film ending for an actor playing Bond!?

    I'll go with NTTD, sorry but, if you compare it to those last films of the previous Bond Actors, it didn't looked or felt Bondian.

    At least in those previous final films like DAD, AVTAK, and DAF, you could still have fun and enjoy, and you know that it's a Bond film, looked and felt like a Bond film, and those films knew solidly what kind of tone they leaned on, the tone was consistent.

    in NTTD it's very hard to be entertained because it tried too hard, those forced emotional scenes, added to that was the convoluted plot (The Nanobots, Safin, the Bionic Eye, Blofeld, and etc.), and like what I've said, didn't felt or looked like a Bond film, just an ordinary action drama film starring Daniel Craig.

    It tried so hard to be serious, but it fell short and the film didn't know what to do with itself, what kind of tone would it lean to.

    NTTD was for me, a pretentious film that just fell short or went nothing.

    It's like they've made a cake and eat it too.

    Sorry, but my vote will be NTTD.

    At least in the previous last films, I could still enjoy them, rewatch them and have fun.

    In NTTD, there's none of that, not even rewatchable for some of my reasons mentioned.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Many folks consider AVTAK to be the winner, um, loser, although you left out several !

    OHMSS was GL's first and last Bond. It is a great movie, though, so it would not qualify as any Bond actor's "worst" first or last.

    NSNA can be considered SC's last Bond film, but is not an "awful last" and could not win (um, by losing ?) this contest.

    LTK is TD's last Bond outing and while many adore him and it, many others do not care for it at all, as it is like some darn TV rogue-copy-fights-drug-lord movie of the week. Even the tag line sure seemed stolen from one of them: "and this time, it's personal." Groan...really ? How low had Bond films sunken ? In this manner, quite lame and wasted many fine talents. And that's without even getting into the pre-teen after-school special subplot with the supposedly tough, bad-ass CIA agent having a jealousy fit over the other pretty girl with the short hair. TD let years pass until he was right for the role, but, by then, the writing and everything else had paled. Quite a shame.

    Still, for reasons noted elsewhere, AVTAK was quite disappointing. Personally - though for very different reasons - it is neck and neck for me with LTK. I find AVTAK more enjoyable/less disappointing to watch. Does this mean my vote should go with with LTK ? Yes. Yes, it does. The horribly severe drop from those heady moments of TLD's PTS and our first look at new Bond TD, to What-the-F ? moment in TLD when TD stood rather pigeon-toed, to the diluted ending of TLD, but then REALLY down to the afore-described lame aspects of LTK, is sadly steep. Instead of enjoying the films of TD, as I can with any of the other disappointing films, I just get to feeling poorly and not entertained.
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    DAD
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,483
    DAD
    DAF would also deserve it but DAD is a cgi-trainwreck in the second half and can't be beaten. And I love Wint & Kidd.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    DAF, absolutely.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Good to see that OHMSS and LTK are no options here, since they’re both cracking entries for me.

    DAF, AVTAK and DAD all have the same issues while they also have the same qualities too. More or less. The plots are all pretty terribly written and they’re all ludicrous by nature.

    That being said, they’re all fairly entertaining watches too. At least for me. DAF is my favourite of the candidates here, the dialogue and the music in particular are in another league than some other Bond films.

    NTTD on the other hand may not be as ludicrous or silly as the other three, but it is equally ill-advised in places. Killing off three of the series main characters in an unsatisfactory way, for instance, is a greater sin for me than surfing an unconvincing CGI tsunami or throwing a dummy from a blimp.

    NTTD is entertaining too in places, the pre-title sequence and the SPECTRE party are both top-notch, but overall I find more enjoyment in the other three. Flawed as they are.

    (If NSNA had been included in this, my choice for NTTD would still stand btw).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I like DAD, but it s still probably my pick here. AVTAK is a contender, but it has a better final scene and is overall funnier.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Well, I would have voted LTK had the option been available, but I appreciate and understand why it was given a pass.

    So, DAD gets my vote because, despite an hour and a quarter of mildly entertaining fair, never before have I seen a film crash and burn quite so spectacularly in its final act.

    Films have been awful all the way through (the last Die Hard for example), but DAD shoots itself in the foot over n over again in the last 45 minutes. It's jaw dropping.

    DAF is the funniest Bond film (not funny in the sense of silly site gags, but funny dialogue and characters),
    AVTAK only really suffers from having an aging cast going through the motions. And the climax is pretty great.
    NTTD I enjoy, and Craig is fantastic.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,585
    Forgive the pedantics, but technically, although DAD was Brozza's final film, it cannot be regarded as his 'send-off', as he returned in Everything or Nothing (which was a great send-off and IMO redeemed the quality of his era).

    That said, I will vote for DAD as least quality final film too (I hate using the word 'worst'), as although I always have a blast with it, there are a lot of issues such as there being way too much pun dialogue.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 2022 Posts: 7,136
    Just realised that I ranked DAD one place lower than NTTD in my latest ranking, so I suppose I’d have to change my vote here to DAD, but I guess it will ‘win’ regardless.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I enjoy all of these films to varying degrees, except for DAD. I only watch when I'm doing a Bond-a-thon.
    So DAD by a long shot
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    DAF is my least favourite Bond film, so I'd have to go with that. DAD and AVTAK are infinitely more exciting and pacier films. NTTD is an interesting misfire but there's enough good stuff in there for it to be a mid-tier film.

    DAF is an interminable bore.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    I still stand my vote about NTTD, it's all about the enjoyment, fun, the consistency of tone and the 'Bond' feeling were my basis for choosing my vote.

    NTTD failed on those aspects.
  • Posts: 7,434
    Oh its DAD by a country mile!
    And too right LTK is not on here, doesn't deserve to be, as @GoldenGun says, a cracking entry!
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,247
    It's NTTD for me. Its intended high stakes pursuit starts off well, only for it to turn into an island filled with unfunny, jokey moments, thus making the emotional intent impalpable. For me, the other nominees can be excused, because like most ridiculous and over-the-top Bond entries, they come with zero to no emotional intent, so the jokes and the ridiculousness on show, goes well with the films, even if the films aren't entirely great.

    I think if David Dencik is edited into the previous Bond films, whether the serious ones or light-hearted ones or over-the-top ones, then it's going to really show what caused NTTD's problems. Maybe EON even realized they made a mistake, that's why Dencik isn't in the trailers and that's why the trailers look more dangerous than the actual film.

    It's quite frustrating though, because I love Craig's Bond and he always gives his all. There was a good film in NTTD, but the director just couldn't nail it.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    I am blown away by the prose and decisions that have been made by the thoughtful academy members. Great to see some varied opinions and thoughts.

    If I was voting it would be a tough choice too. I find it interesting that an actors final film isn't always his best. DAF is a guilty pleasure for me, I love and embrace the silliness of it all. When you compare DN to DAF and realize the arc in 10 years you can see how some of the tropes and formula got cemented in place and would therefore often call for a re-adjustment. Same with LALD and AVTAK 12 years this time and again you can see the arc to some degree. Brosnan is interesting as his was a shorter time in the role but how fantastical it all got by the end of his run. I would have loved to have seen one more film from him where they got the balance better.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    NicNac wrote: »
    ...

    So, DAD gets my vote because, despite an hour and a quarter of mildly entertaining fair, never before have I seen a film crash and burn quite so spectacularly in its final act.

    Films have been awful all the way through (the last Die Hard for example), but DAD shoots itself in the foot over n over again in the last 45 minutes. It's jaw dropping.

    DAF is the funniest Bond film (not funny in the sense of silly site gags, but funny dialogue and characters),
    AVTAK only really suffers from having an aging cast going through the motions. And the climax is pretty great.
    NTTD I enjoy, and Craig is fantastic.

    *This*. DAD has no real competitor in being the worst of the bunch.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited August 2022 Posts: 2,148
    DAD - I struggle to find one redeeming quality in that movie… ok, maybe Rosamund but that’s about it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    The beginning in NK, up to Raoul in Havana, the car battle on the ice (up until things start getting invisible), Gustav Graves as a campy foil to Bond / Hugo Drax analogue...
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