And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's interesting how we judge a good Bond/M scene for a game like this. As far as the nominees go, I was surprised not to see any of the ones I truly felt were monumental appearing. But I think I judge it with a different eye. The Bond and M interactions that always stand out to me are those that are more "refreshing" than the usual tried and tested ones we're so used to seeing, as they break tradition and take the characters and their relationship in a new direction. There are so many Bond and M moments that are strictly there for exposition, and to set up a mission, and that's it. Which is all well and good, but I feel leave a lot to be desired. Much of what is nominated seems to be picked more from that kind of sampling. I feel that's a bit tricky from a judgment perspective, as I don't think the DN Bond/M should be voted best for example just because it was first, because outside of that achievement it's not altogether mind-blowing or memorable. But, to each their own.

    The Bond and M interactions that I think of, if I were to rate them highly, would have to include Bond and M going at it in OHMSS (as it was striking and powerful to see the two men break down their professional personas and let it all fly for the first time), or literally any interaction Judi's M and Dan's Bond had. My standouts are their first interaction on screen during Bond's break-in of her flat, for how much that moment solidified the boldness of Dan's Bond and the tough as nails ball-busting of Judi's M as a woman not to mess with, the hotel confrontation of QoS that pit the two of them in a battle of words that was quite scorching and powerful, with Bond on the defensive and M forced to strip him of his status, and the ending of that film which proved Bond was always on her side and his loyalty never strayed. And obviously SF has so many great ones, notably Bond's second break-in of her flat for how much it lays the groundwork of the pair of them being out of it with something to prove, and their interactions in Scotland that show a more tender side of their relationship as Bond goes back to his roots. M's death in Bond's arms is monumental not just for her death, but because her final words speak to how she has always believed in Bond, even if they could butt heads about the manner in which he got his results.

    I would even throw some Mallory and Bond interactions up there, because I don't like Mallory and enjoy watching Dan's Bond dismantle him. Their prickly de-briefing after the SP PTS is a great one, as Bond is steadfast and sure in defending his actions and Mallory is just not having it, but nothing beats their NTTD reunion. That scene, as with the OHMSS one, is an interaction I love because Bond and M just let all their feelings ride, and don't hold anything back. Mallory screwed up royally, and it was refreshing to see Bond so indifferent about holding back his feelings anymore because he was no longer a 00. The scene is packed with so much beautiful passive-aggressiveness, from Bond digging about Mallory's drinking, to Mallory purposefully calling in the new 007 in an attempt to deflate Bond's ego. The interaction is explosive and truly game changing, not just for what we expect of a Bond and M meeting, but also for their dynamic of the characters that leans on their previous interactions and development beforehand.

    I'll refrain from discussing further, however. It seems like the only times I post anything on this thread are when I disagree with the nominations, and that annoys even me. Genuine apologies for that...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2022 Posts: 16,418
    I guess I didn't pick one, so I'll for GE as it's the most iconic of the bunch, probably. It kind of represented the whole film in a way, and was used heavily in promotion for the movie, which I'm not sure any other briefing scene has done to that extent. Maybe the LTK country club!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,433
    Great post @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 no need for apologies or doubts. The M scenes are rich in that many do different things. Some like the standard briefing, others enjoy the ones that are pushing things or developing new aspects of character. I agree with some of the ones that you have suggested. While not a fan of QOS I do like the ending exchange between M and Bond in the snow.

    I think the OHMSS confrontation would have been stronger with a Bond who had been in the role longer. For Connery's Bond to finally stand up to M might have given that sequence for me extra gravitas.

    I don't mind people doing write in nominations and please know that all are welcome with their thoughts. In fact you are welcome to submit a category and nominees to me and I will post them here.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    thedove wrote: »
    Great post @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 no need for apologies or doubts. The M scenes are rich in that many do different things. Some like the standard briefing, others enjoy the ones that are pushing things or developing new aspects of character. I agree with some of the ones that you have suggested. While not a fan of QOS I do like the ending exchange between M and Bond in the snow.

    I think the OHMSS confrontation would have been stronger with a Bond who had been in the role longer. For Connery's Bond to finally stand up to M might have given that sequence for me extra gravitas.

    I don't mind people doing write in nominations and please know that all are welcome with their thoughts. In fact you are welcome to submit a category and nominees to me and I will post them here.

    Agreed about the QoS ending......

    My favorite M and Bond scene in OHMSS was the one where Bond goes to M's house, it's a great moment where they talked about M's hobby of Lepidoptery, Blofeld and the plan, then M assigned him to a mission to disguise as Sir Hilary Bray in Piz Gloria, (we got to see M's house for the first time, then Bond being called a Commander, then the bonding between the two was really great.). So, I definitely nominate that one.

    Not a fan of confrontation scene that much either.

    Not also a fan of the Goldeneye one, the way M confronts Bond, it's a bit off for me, not a fan of that "sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" line, I just wished they've cut that one off, and have just M called Bond of being a relic of cold war, that would be more an acceptable line.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For me, the GE scene is one of the worst in the series.
  • Posts: 1,630
    For me, the GE scene is one of the worst in the series.

    I like GE but quite agree.
    1.It should have been by the water. Would have been do-able easily.
    2.It should have had a DN-ish ending. Bond and the lady lead get off the island, with a boat pre-arranged by his American buddy. A distance away, the American buddy and some military arrive so as to help Bond and the lady lead get into a bigger boat. Bond's boat need not be out of fuel, as in DN, but Bond declines the assistance, so as to give proper attention to the lady. The End, of Goldeneye, James Bond will return, in (I liked when they gave a title, and not just end the phrase after "return")

    Instead, a bunch of soldiers and the American buddy spoil a moment. Brosnan's wide grin goes freeze-frame (What ? Bond films NEVER should have freeze frame or slow-mo), and that LAME ending song. Ugh.
  • Posts: 1,917
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Goldeneye for me. Judi putting Bond in his place is still a wonderfully written scene.

    On a personal level, that scene is the start of the Dench M's tough love persona, in which she seemed to want to put Bond down and had a hard time having full confidence in her best agent. I was never much of a fan of that portrayal, Dench's talent aside.

    I don’t like that take on M either, but it’s hard to deny that the entire scene is just so well written, and probably what set the stage of the Modern Era of Bond. When she’s telling him off, the dynamics of the series change right there and then. The blatant sexism of previous Bond films had no place in this new, exciting era. The women were going to be just as, and in some cases even more, capable than Bond. It sets the stage for future Bond/M scenes, much like Connery/Lee in Dr. No. But that’s all just my opinion though. I will say I prefer the traditional Bond/M scenes of the Connery/Moore era.

    But even after that speech about being a sexist, misogynist dinosaur you have a henchwoman who squeezes men to death with her thighs while getting pleasure out of it and the main woman who acts like more of a nagging wife at times than a companion for Bond.

    Then two films later you have Dr. Christmas Jones who was put in to be nothing more than to fill the trope of having a sexy girl who nobody bought as a scientist because the producers didn't have enough confidence in themselves to just leave Elecktra as the only Bond woman and having her in the end and setting her up for being the butt of the joke of one of the worst lines in the series.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 2,270
    BT3366 wrote: »
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Goldeneye for me. Judi putting Bond in his place is still a wonderfully written scene.

    On a personal level, that scene is the start of the Dench M's tough love persona, in which she seemed to want to put Bond down and had a hard time having full confidence in her best agent. I was never much of a fan of that portrayal, Dench's talent aside.

    I don’t like that take on M either, but it’s hard to deny that the entire scene is just so well written, and probably what set the stage of the Modern Era of Bond. When she’s telling him off, the dynamics of the series change right there and then. The blatant sexism of previous Bond films had no place in this new, exciting era. The women were going to be just as, and in some cases even more, capable than Bond. It sets the stage for future Bond/M scenes, much like Connery/Lee in Dr. No. But that’s all just my opinion though. I will say I prefer the traditional Bond/M scenes of the Connery/Moore era.

    But even after that speech about being a sexist, misogynist dinosaur you have a henchwoman who squeezes men to death with her thighs while getting pleasure out of it and the main woman who acts like more of a nagging wife at times than a companion for Bond.

    Then two films later you have Dr. Christmas Jones who was put in to be nothing more than to fill the trope of having a sexy girl who nobody bought as a scientist because the producers didn't have enough confidence in themselves to just leave Elecktra as the only Bond woman and having her in the end and setting her up for being the butt of the joke of one of the worst lines in the series.

    I completely disagree about Xenia and Natalya. Yeah Xenia is completely ludicrous, but that’s the whole point isn’t it? You can still laugh at the absurdity of her character, while still recognizing that she’s still a pretty strong female character who plays by her own rules, and Natalya never acts as if she’s nagging towards Bond at all. She shouts like three times, once for Bond to wake up in the Helicopter, the 2nd to diffuse the situation between Bond and Mishkin, and the 3rd to get Bond to work on an escape route for them from the train. All three examples are her coming across as a very strong female character. Not to mention Wai Lin from the next film. Now I’ll give you the points about Christmas Jones, but that still doesn’t take away anything from the fact that the Bond/M scene in GE arguably helps set the stage for the Modern Era of Bond.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    TMWTGG (reason to kill Bond) and OP (Bond returns with the original egg) are the funniest moments with M and therefore two of my favourite M moments.
    I think my favourite whole M scene would be the one in CR in M's home.

    Defintely no vote for DN. I love this movie and the M scene is good but I don't see anything outstanding compared to other M scenes. Especially because Boothroyd is a bit boring.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited August 2022 Posts: 5,433
    Well it seems the academy has spoken and wow what a variety of votes and opinions. The wings of the dove were flapping overtime to calculate all the votes that were sent in!

    The winner of best Bond/M scene is....Doctor No!

    Here are the results of the voting:
    • Doctor No got 8 votes
    • Octopussy received 1 vote
    • The Man with the Golden Gun received 1 vote
    • Goldeneye got 5 votes
    • The Living Daylights received 2 write in votes
    • Quantum of Solace had 1 write in vote
    • OHMSS received 1 write in vote
    • Skyfall received 1 vote via write in
    • Thunderball also received a write in vote
    • Tomorrow Never Dies received a write in vote
    • Casino Royale received a write in vote!

    Lets turn our attention elsewhere for the next category. Suspense has always been a part of the series. Some times the tension is high and you really feel the danger and the trouble that our favourite secret agent gets into. Lets highlight some of the lesser known moments of tension in the film series. There were many to choose from, here is our list of nominees:
    • Bond isn't clowning around OP for some this is sacrilege for Bond to be in clown make up and costume. But there is palpable tension as Bond must convince Octopussy to let him diffuse the bomb. Barry's music adds where needed and Glen wrings out more suspense with some good edits.
    • Bond on his knees FRWL In only the second film of the series James finds himself on his knees without a gun and a deadly assassin aiming at him. How will he get out of this situation? Add in some cracking dialogue between the men and the clickety clack of the train and you have a suspenseful sequence.
    • Cracking a safe in Switzerland OHMSS Bond has broken in to get the files on Blofeld's count claims. Gumbold the lawyer leaves for lunch...or does he? Nice touch of looking for his gloves and John Barry's steady music makes this somewhat suspenseful. The world isn't at stake but time is against Bond in this sequence.
    • Rocky climbing ahead FYEO If this was MR Bond might jet pack up the mountain fortress of the baddie. But in the grounded FYEO Bond must climb, while a goon chips away at his anchors. Conti wisely provides no score for this sequence. All we hear is the steely hits of the gun hitting the anchors. This is drawn out masterfully by Glen.
    • Bond is Home Alone Skyfall Bond went low tech in SF to protect M and end Silva. It almost worked. The dread is building as M, Kincaide and Bond prepare Skyfall for Silva and his baddies. The grey sky and the helicopter and its' booming soundtrack only add to the suspense of what is to come.

    This might be another category that gets some write in votes. I have tried to get a good cross section of suspense within the series. Feel free to write in your favourite moment. Okay time for the academy to weigh in, what scene will take the Bondie for Best Suspenseful Scene?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Bond on his knees in FRWL!!
  • Posts: 5,994
    I'd like to nominate the assassination attempt in YOLT. Will the poison reach Bond's lips ?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2022 Posts: 16,418
    I'd probably got for Octopussy there as it's a great sustained and very scary climax, with Roger really selling the desperation brilliantly; but I think Moonraker also has a couple. The centrifuge sequence is a great tension scene, and Corinne's put down is a short, but lovely one.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    OP easily. The entire chunk of film from Bond going off the train to arriving back at the circus to defuse the bomb is so suspenseful.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited August 2022 Posts: 2,148
    Bond on his knees in FRWL.
    Grant was truly Bond's equal and he proved it by casually and effortlessly eliminating seven people up to his final showdown with 007.
    It was not only a question of how the hell Bond will manage to get the drop on him but also if he could actually beat him in hand-to-hand combat, considering Grant's top physical condition.

    FYEO's mountain climbing gets an honorable mention for being a truly suspensful and well made sequence, although I think LALD's crocodile farm still reigns as Moore's most nerve wracking moment.

    'Gumbold's Safe' is a wonderful track but I think it offers little in the way of suspense heightening.
    I never found that scene particularly suspensful given that Herr Gumbold is not the most imposing or threatening character and I can't help but think Bond would have easily found a way to quietly dispose of him were he to be surprised by his unexepected return.
    HIs mission would have probably been jeopardized but his life was hardly in any danger.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,418
    I must admit the FYEO mountain climbing has never really done anything for me. It's okay but I don't find it the tensest sequence.
    The Gumbold is fine but only really tense because of John Barry's brilliant work. As you say, R1s1ngs0n, the stakes aren't shockingly high, and the whole thing takes an hour (even though Bond could unlock a safe using a pocket gadget in ten seconds in the previous film! :D ). I guess if he's discovered then it might mean Blofeld would be tipped off and he'd lose him.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Bond on his knees in FRWL.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    Definitely the rock climbing in the FYEO finale for me!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Can I please write-in the Bratislava sniper scene from TLD? :)
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    The OP bomb diffusing scene for me.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,789
    Oh! 1000 post!
    This is my 1000th post! Congratulations to me!


    Anyway, back to the game.

    Rocky climbing ahead FYEO, especially when a henchman starts removing those pitons, that's heighten the suspense even more, because Bond's in real danger, he could easily fall from that mountain.
    It's one of the most suspenseful scenes for me.

    I also liked the Gumbold scene, like it's really tense because Gumbold's going to arrive and if caught Bond there, his mission would be compromised, but like anyone's saying here, it's not a life threatening moment, it's not that different to the safe cracking scene in YOLT.

    The most suspenseful scene for me in OHMSS was Bond trying to escape Irma Bunt, her men and even the Polar Bear mascot only to encounter Tracy in the skating rink. Bond was in real danger at that time and would have you thinking if he's going to get caught or would be saved?

    OP lacked any suspense from me, because I know that he would make it, he's Bond, the bomb defusing scene in Goldfinger was way more suspenseful, because he's trying to find a way to diffuse it, but it's still not stoping from counting, until there's another man who diffused it from him.

    Since, I've mentioned YOLT, I'd also like to write in the scene in YOLT where Bond was removing the cover of the button to push it to destroy SPECTRE's spacecraft, before it could hijack the American Vessel to start a war, now that's one of the most suspenseful moments.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If we were voting for the most suspenseful scene, FYEO would take it, but since we re voting for the best suspenseful scene, my vote goes to OHMSS.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Octopussy for sure.
  • Posts: 1,630
    mtm wrote: »
    I must admit the FYEO mountain climbing has never really done anything for me. It's okay but I don't find it the tensest sequence.
    The Gumbold is fine but only really tense because of John Barry's brilliant work. As you say, R1s1ngs0n, the stakes aren't shockingly high, and the whole thing takes an hour (even though Bond could unlock a safe using a pocket gadget in ten seconds in the previous film! :D ). I guess if he's discovered then it might mean Blofeld would be tipped off and he'd lose him.

    Doesn't it even have a surprise birds moment ? Good grief, how many surprise birds appeared in the 80s and 90s ? Weren't there surprise birds in the PTS for TLD, too ? By the time we got slow-mo birds in the church in Face-Off it had become caricature, though the director seemed not to know. He reeeeeally like the birds. That church must have been awfully dirty/stinky/slippery ! Anyway, I sure no bond movie ever uses surprise birds again.
  • Posts: 1,630
    sorry...I did not nominate a suspenseful moment in a Bond film...How about in FYEO when the audience wonders "oh, no, are we REALLY going to have Bond get all kissy-kissy with a lady young enough to be his grand-daughter ?" for even the briefest of moments ? You say you didn't think it would go that route ? Really ? Based on the track record of the films, hmm...what WAS she even doing in that movie anyway ???
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I must admit the FYEO mountain climbing has never really done anything for me. It's okay but I don't find it the tensest sequence.
    The Gumbold is fine but only really tense because of John Barry's brilliant work. As you say, R1s1ngs0n, the stakes aren't shockingly high, and the whole thing takes an hour (even though Bond could unlock a safe using a pocket gadget in ten seconds in the previous film! :D ). I guess if he's discovered then it might mean Blofeld would be tipped off and he'd lose him.

    Doesn't it even have a surprise birds moment ? Good grief, how many surprise birds appeared in the 80s and 90s ? Weren't there surprise birds in the PTS for TLD, too ? By the time we got slow-mo birds in the church in Face-Off it had become caricature, though the director seemed not to know. He reeeeeally like the birds. That church must have been awfully dirty/stinky/slippery ! Anyway, I sure no bond movie ever uses surprise birds again.

    TLD. Barbary macaques of Gibraltar, sir.

    02118233.jpeg?itok=MAyMlM-x


    For the Brosnan films, does Madonna count?

  • The only correct answer is the Safe Cracking scene from OHMSS. Well correct to me at least ;). Seriously though, it’s almost like something out of Hitchcock, in fact I think that comparison has been made before.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I think my vote will go to FYEO.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    thedove wrote: »
    Well it seems the academy has spoken and wow what a variety of votes and opinions. The wings of the dove were flapping overtime to calculate all the votes that were sent in!

    The winner of best Bond/M scene is....Doctor No!

    Here are the results of the voting:
    • Doctor No got 8 votes
    • Octopussy received 1 vote
    • The Man with the Golden Gun received 1 vote
    • Goldeneye got 5 votes
    • The Living Daylights received 2 write in votes
    • Quantum of Solace had 1 write in vote
    • OHMSS received 1 write in vote
    • Skyfall received 1 vote via write in
    • Thunderball also received a write in vote
    • Tomorrow Never Dies received a write in vote
    • Casino Royale received a write in vote!

    Lets turn our attention elsewhere for the next category. Suspense has always been a part of the series. Some times the tension is high and you really feel the danger and the trouble that our favourite secret agent gets into. Lets highlight some of the lesser known moments of tension in the film series. There were many to choose from, here is our list of nominees:
    • Bond isn't clowning around OP for some this is sacrilege for Bond to be in clown make up and costume. But there is palpable tension as Bond must convince Octopussy to let him diffuse the bomb. Barry's music adds where needed and Glen wrings out more suspense with some good edits.
    • Bond on his knees FRWL In only the second film of the series James finds himself on his knees without a gun and a deadly assassin aiming at him. How will he get out of this situation? Add in some cracking dialogue between the men and the clickety clack of the train and you have a suspenseful sequence.
    • Cracking a safe in Switzerland OHMSS Bond has broken in to get the files on Blofeld's count claims. Gumbold the lawyer leaves for lunch...or does he? Nice touch of looking for his gloves and John Barry's steady music makes this somewhat suspenseful. The world isn't at stake but time is against Bond in this sequence.
    • Rocky climbing ahead FYEO If this was MR Bond might jet pack up the mountain fortress of the baddie. But in the grounded FYEO Bond must climb, while a goon chips away at his anchors. Conti wisely provides no score for this sequence. All we hear is the steely hits of the gun hitting the anchors. This is drawn out masterfully by Glen.
    • Bond is Home Alone Skyfall Bond went low tech in SF to protect M and end Silva. It almost worked. The dread is building as M, Kincaide and Bond prepare Skyfall for Silva and his baddies. The grey sky and the helicopter and its' booming soundtrack only add to the suspense of what is to come.

    This might be another category that gets some write in votes. I have tried to get a good cross section of suspense within the series. Feel free to write in your favourite moment. Okay time for the academy to weigh in, what scene will take the Bondie for Best Suspenseful Scene?
    Bond on his knees FRWL, with OP's a close second.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    For me, the OHMSS sequence is always oddly suspenseful. As has been stated, what are the risks? But the relaxed manner in which Bond 'entertains' himself whilst only having the good lawyers' lunchtime, strangely seems to work.
    But rising above this one is one-of-many St. Cyril's. For someone with a fear of hights this definately does it (closely followed by the crane-jumping in CR. But that's more of an action scene).

    btw, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 , thanks for your deposition on the last catagory. A fascinating read!
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