And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

1109110112114115148

Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    OHMSS, no contest.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,789
    OHMSS for me, because it's too soon for Tracy.
    I do feel pity for Bond, but I feel more pity for Tracy, she's innocent and to see her suddenly got involved in Bond's battle against SPECTRE by killing her off in their wedding, that's sad.
    So, that one would be my pick, and it should be the winner!

    Although I would also nominate here Skyfall, with Bond on the rooftop looking at England like he's guarding them, Moneypenny's back, Q's back, and a Male M again (almost every characters from the classic era was here again), the bulldog figure, then him back to basics missions "with a pleasure". It would definitely not be my vote (that goes to OHMSS), but it deserved to be here.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,154
    CR would take it every time for me if it was among the nominees! Ah, well.
    A tie between QOS and OHMSS, then - although, with OHMSS I do get what people say about the emotional punch being undermined somewhat by the immediate and inappropriate blast of the Bond theme instead of having a slow fade to black and a silence to let it resonate.
  • edited September 2022 Posts: 15,127
    thedove wrote: »
    Wow that was quite the thread to tally votes. Music cues, outfits, this category really sparked some great discussion. Brilliant sutff academy members.

    The Klebbie goes to Bond and Jinx engage in juvenile dialogue DAD! Accepting the hard award and asking us to leave it in, is Halle Berry!

    Here are the votes of the academy:
    • NTTD recieved 6 votes
    • TB received 2 votes
    • DAD received 15 votes
    • AVTAK received 3 votes

    Lets flip this to the other side and look at the best endings of a Bond film! The nominees are:
    • We have All the Time in the World OHMSS...Bond a traffic cop and a dead bride. This ending was a gut punch when watched for the first time. The single bullet in the windshield and the silence. Say what you will about George and his performance in this movie, but he nails the emotion of the scene!
    • "I never left" QOS...the movie has many faults but the ending is not one of them. From Bond surprising the lovers and letting the double agent live, to the scene with M outside in the snow. This ending hits a great deal of right notes and ends the movie in a perfect way!
    • We have All the Time in the World NTTD....our hero dies saving the world from nanobots. His work colleagues toast him and recall his adventures. His lover and child zoom along a highway in Europe. The song is heard again, but this time for Bond and not the love of his life. Polarizing ending? Yes, but doesn't that mean it's a good ending as it sparks discussion?
    • Keeping the British End Up Sir TSWLM...this ending is certainly more lighthearted than some of our other entries. But the tension of Anya holding the gun, Bond popping the champagne and breaking the tension. Good stuff and it fits with the tone of the film. The "Bond what are you doing?" "Keeping the British end up." is a funny joke to end the movie. Light but not cringey!
    • In Out, In Out OP....to some this should have been the end of Moore's Bond. Sailing off into the sunset with the girl! The scene with Gray and Gogol and the transition to Bond in a sling and leg cast. Then the reveal and the joy of Bond and Octopussy in each others arms. This is another lighter ending, but it seemed like the fitting end to Moore's Bond.

    Okay academy members what's the best ending to a Bond film? Does the heaviness of OHMSS or NTTD get the vote, or do you like the lighter ones? How does QOS do as a ending?

    I suspect much discussion around this category, so Mi6 what say you? What is the best ending to a Bond film?

    Personally I'd go for CR, but since it's not nominated, I'd go for OHMSS. Really love the ending of QOS, but it's not nearly as shocking or iconic. NTTD is great too, bit OHMSS came first and has reached that iconic status.
  • OHMSS.
  • edited September 2022 Posts: 1,632
    DN...it set the standard that was sometimes met, sometimes spoofed, too often missed. The heroine and hero, together, on, in or very near the water, declining rescue for a while longer...FRWL has a great ending, varying on the formula but still on the water, romantically, after the last threat was fought out in the hotel, with Bond disposing of evidence which also could have been problematic. Though not as revered a film, DAF has a TERRIFIC ending. It compresses the "last threat of the henchman/men" into the "romantic together alone again" ending. There's no "declining a rescue" but that is entirely appropriate. Additionally, for a final bit that is specifically appropriate to Tiffany Case, she wonders aloud about getting ahold of all those lovely diamonds orbiting the earth - Perfect ! LALD has a terrific last-threat-plus-romance ending, with the spooky addition of the Baron at the very end. TMWTGG would have been better were Herve V's character somehow more of a genuine threat, such as by using a weapon with which he is particularly skilled, which could have been set up quickly and easily during the film and made him genuinely menacing. FYEO good, though bland - perhaps a final henchman's threat would have improved it. OP good, as noted elsewhere. CR good, though certainly quite different than the ones noted above, and true to its own story and style. Likewise for QOS, Skyfall, SPECTRE and NTTD.
    Perhaps, since I've opined before that it is time for the pendulum to swing, and to not merely repeat what's been done for a while, and to get back to adventures, more fun, and so on, the Bond-with-Heroine-along-on-the-water after a final threat ending may return !
    By the way - all those I did not mention above were letdowns one way or another...
  • Posts: 7,507
    I love the QoS ending! But I have to go with OHMSS!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    I’ll throw in a wildcard write in for Thatcher getting intimate with a parrot in FYEO.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    TLD's ending is also one of my favorites, and feels all the fresher for not ending near water.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited September 2022 Posts: 2,148
    I know I probably shouldn't, but I love TMWTGG's ending and I think a lot of it has to do with that last shot where we see a dejected and helpless Nick Nack suspended from the junk's mast.
    Coupled with that beautiful, melancholic cue that leads to Lulu's alternate rendition of the title track, it is quite a downer of an ending and one that further reinforces the idea that Bond, in this particular entry, was a nasty piece of work whose actions and methods were quite often undignified, not to say downright cruel.
    I doubt if that was Hamilton's intention, but it does mark the only time where Bond coming out on top didn't have the expected effect on me - quite the opposite, which is why I find this ending quite unique.

    It's also worth noting that while Goldfinger remains undoubtly Hamilton's best film, I find its ending to be the least rewarding among the 4 films he's directed.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,033
    CR, but of the listings QOS has the best ending.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,139
    OHMSS, easily.

    Where NTTD is overly sentimental and in-your-face, OHMSS’s dramatic ending is so much more subtle and elegantly done and as such it has significantly more of an impact too.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    QOS. It's a culmination of the movies themes and it's beautiful looking and perfectly acted.

    OHMSS is good too, but it's kind of a shock think that doesn't have anything big under the surface. I always found George not quite as strong here as he's said to be.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,438
    I love to create a little controversy with the nominees, just like the real academy awards. LOL! I thought QOS should get a little love and for all the faults of the film, to me the ending is rather nice. I remind the academy that you are allowed to write in nominees. So if you are passionate about an ending, please feel free to write it in.

    When I was choosing the nominees, I realized that Craig's Bond had some quality finishes. Yes CR was certainly a big moment and I remember the audience clapping when Craig finally uttered "Bond, James Bond!".

    Interesting to see the early votes and the well thought out responses to our nominees!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,154
    Hang on - QOS has faults...?
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,848
    OHMSS. Without question IMO.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,369
    It must be a write in vote for me:

    James... Take me around the world one more time.

    Why not?

    MOONRAKER
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Venutius wrote: »
    Hang on - QOS has faults...?

    They must be thinking of some other film.
  • edited September 2022 Posts: 2,918
    QoS has a very good ending, though I can't say I was really moved by it. Upthread I nominated NTTD's ending as the series' worst, so 'nuff said there. TSWLM and OP have fun endings that don't leave a mark. And I disliked CR turning a bleak ending into a triumphant one.

    So my vote goes to OHMSS, without question. I don't think the other nominees come close. The combination of terrific filmmaking with Fleming's most stringent and devastating finale is unbeatable. And Blofeld's parthian shot might be the most vicious in any action/adventure movie.

    The staging, editing, acting and imagery are superb: Bond rushing around the car as his cry "it's Blofeld, it's Blofeld--" is curtailed in silent, sudden horror; the brief but horrifying head-on view behind the cracked windscreen of Tracy's face with a bullet between the eyes; her lifeless body falls over and out of frame; Bond looks like a lost child as he cradles her head and speaks to the officer; cut back to the Tracy's empty seat, again through the cracked windshield...

    Unlike the sad endings in later Bond films there is no consolation here. No chance for Bond to look heroic or score vengeance over evil, just evil's triumph. It's a truly sad ending: the waste of human life, the suffering of the good while the wicked run free, and the sickening unfairness of it all. In OHMSS death truly enters the Bond series, not just as a punishment for larger-than-life villains or something that happens to colleagues, but a force that shatters Bond's life and destroys people we have come to care for.

    Even the sometimes-derided replay of the Bond theme rubs our noses in a hard truth-- for Bond to go on as Bond, Tracy has to die. "Isn't this what you wanted?" the score asks us. James Bond must remain trapped in a James Bond movie; any attempt to escape will result in the destruction of his chance to escape, the person he loves. Genre fiction is never more powerful than when it confronts its own limits.

    The old commonplace phrase "we have all the time in the world" is repurposed in OHMSS as a married couple's greatest hope--time is ours to enjoy together, however we please--and then denied in the most brutal way conceivable. With vicious irony that denial arrives seconds after Tracy has thanked Bond for giving her a future: she has been robbed not merely of her great vitality, but the chance to start over with a partner truly right for her.

    As a result James Bond, shockingly and for the very first time, falls apart. This character, made famous by the savoir-faire, aplomb and unfuffled suaveness he showed in every previous film, loses those qualities and is left a broken man. It's hard to convey how unsettling and unprecedented this was in 1969. Unlike the Craig era, where personal stories became the norm, OHMSS ended the boom period where Bond had never been allowed to be fully human. OHMSS closed the first cycle of Bond films with a challenge its successors couldn't (and didn't wish to) face for many years, until the series responded with references, and then appropriation of OHMSS's music and themes; an acknowledgement of the film's power, which culminated in its idol-shattering finale.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    edited September 2022 Posts: 2,848
    I "only" voted for OHMSS, but @Revelator voted with poetry. Thanks for stating the case so
    eloquently.

    There is a reason why I posted this picture of Tracy (Diana Rigg) in the other thread. For me, it gets to the heart of why the ending is so tragic - for both her, and for Bond. Long before (ok, moments actually), Blofeld and Bunt fire those shots, we feel their hopes and desires for the future. A future that they are going to be robbed of.

    …anyway you have given me a wedding present. The best that I could have: a future.On-Her-Majestys-Secret-Service-1212.jpg
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,139
    Revelator wrote: »
    QoS has a very good ending, though I can't say I was really moved by it. Upthread I nominated NTTD's ending as the series' worst, so 'nuff said there. TSWLM and OP have fun endings that don't leave a mark. And I disliked CR turning a bleak ending into a triumphant one.

    So my vote goes to OHMSS, without question. I don't think the other nominees come close. The combination of terrific filmmaking with Fleming's most stringent and devastating finale is unbeatable. And Blofeld's parthian shot might be the most vicious in any action/adventure movie.

    The staging, editing, acting and imagery are superb: Bond rushing around the car as his cry "it's Blofeld, it's Blofeld--" is curtailed in silent, sudden horror; the brief but horrifying head-on view behind the cracked windscreen of Tracy's face with a bullet between the eyes; her lifeless body falls over and out of frame; Bond looks like a lost child as he cradles her head and speaks to the officer; cut back to the Tracy's empty seat, again through the cracked windshield...

    Unlike the sad endings in later Bond films there is no consolation here. No chance for Bond to look heroic or score vengeance over evil, just evil's triumph. It's a truly sad ending: the waste of human life, the suffering of the good while the wicked run free, and the sickening unfairness of it all. In OHMSS death truly enters the Bond series, not just as a punishment for larger-than-life villains or something that happens to colleagues, but a force that shatters Bond's life and destroys people we have come to care for.

    Even the sometimes-derided replay of the Bond theme rubs our noses in a hard truth-- for Bond to go on as Bond, Tracy has to die. "Isn't this what you wanted?" the score asks us. James Bond must remain trapped in a James Bond movie; any attempt to escape will result in the destruction of his chance to escape, the person he loves. Genre fiction is never more powerful than when it confronts its own limits.

    The old commonplace phrase "we have all the time in the world" is repurposed in OHMSS as a married couple's greatest hope--time is ours to enjoy together, however we please--and then denied in the most brutal way conceivable. With vicious irony that denial arrives seconds after Tracy has thanked Bond for giving her a future: she has been robbed not merely of her great vitality, but the chance to start over with a partner truly right for her.

    As a result James Bond, shockingly and for the very first time, falls apart. This character, made famous by the savoir-faire, aplomb and unfuffled suaveness he showed in every previous film, loses those qualities and is left a broken man. It's hard to convey how unsettling and unprecedented this was in 1969. Unlike the Craig era, where personal stories became the norm, OHMSS ended the boom period where Bond had never been allowed to be fully human. OHMSS closed the first cycle of Bond films with a challenge its successors couldn't (and didn't wish to) face for many years, until the series responded with references, and then appropriation of OHMSS's music and themes; an acknowledgement of the film's power, which culminated in its idol-shattering finale.

    Amazingly well put @Revelator.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,154
    Yes, that's made a great case for OHMSS.
  • Revelator wrote: »
    QoS has a very good ending, though I can't say I was really moved by it. Upthread I nominated NTTD's ending as the series' worst, so 'nuff said there. TSWLM and OP have fun endings that don't leave a mark. And I disliked CR turning a bleak ending into a triumphant one.

    So my vote goes to OHMSS, without question. I don't think the other nominees come close. The combination of terrific filmmaking with Fleming's most stringent and devastating finale is unbeatable. And Blofeld's parthian shot might be the most vicious in any action/adventure movie.

    The staging, editing, acting and imagery are superb: Bond rushing around the car as his cry "it's Blofeld, it's Blofeld--" is curtailed in silent, sudden horror; the brief but horrifying head-on view behind the cracked windscreen of Tracy's face with a bullet between the eyes; her lifeless body falls over and out of frame; Bond looks like a lost child as he cradles her head and speaks to the officer; cut back to the Tracy's empty seat, again through the cracked windshield...

    Unlike the sad endings in later Bond films there is no consolation here. No chance for Bond to look heroic or score vengeance over evil, just evil's triumph. It's a truly sad ending: the waste of human life, the suffering of the good while the wicked run free, and the sickening unfairness of it all. In OHMSS death truly enters the Bond series, not just as a punishment for larger-than-life villains or something that happens to colleagues, but a force that shatters Bond's life and destroys people we have come to care for.

    Even the sometimes-derided replay of the Bond theme rubs our noses in a hard truth-- for Bond to go on as Bond, Tracy has to die. "Isn't this what you wanted?" the score asks us. James Bond must remain trapped in a James Bond movie; any attempt to escape will result in the destruction of his chance to escape, the person he loves. Genre fiction is never more powerful than when it confronts its own limits.

    The old commonplace phrase "we have all the time in the world" is repurposed in OHMSS as a married couple's greatest hope--time is ours to enjoy together, however we please--and then denied in the most brutal way conceivable. With vicious irony that denial arrives seconds after Tracy has thanked Bond for giving her a future: she has been robbed not merely of her great vitality, but the chance to start over with a partner truly right for her.

    As a result James Bond, shockingly and for the very first time, falls apart. This character, made famous by the savoir-faire, aplomb and unfuffled suaveness he showed in every previous film, loses those qualities and is left a broken man. It's hard to convey how unsettling and unprecedented this was in 1969. Unlike the Craig era, where personal stories became the norm, OHMSS ended the boom period where Bond had never been allowed to be fully human. OHMSS closed the first cycle of Bond films with a challenge its successors couldn't (and didn't wish to) face for many years, until the series responded with references, and then appropriation of OHMSS's music and themes; an acknowledgement of the film's power, which culminated in its idol-shattering finale.

    Great Post!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    I was going to vote QoS, as I think it embodies Bonds dedication to his job, to whom he is. But @Revelator made such a poignant post about ohmss (was my runner_up) that I'll go for ohmss.
  • Posts: 2,918
    Thank you for the kind words gentlemen! My life would be complete if I ever got to write one of those BFI Film Classics books on OHMSS. They're about to publish one on FRWL by the way.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,789
    Revelator wrote: »
    Thank you for the kind words gentlemen! My life would be complete if I ever got to write one of those BFI Film Classics books on OHMSS. They're about to publish one on FRWL by the way.

    You deserve it, also if EON and IFP would make a documentary book about James Bond, they should call you to write.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,848
    Revelator wrote: »
    Thank you for the kind words gentlemen! My life would be complete if I ever got to write one of those BFI Film Classics books on OHMSS. They're about to publish one on FRWL by the way.

    The publication date is October 6th according to Amazon.com (US).
    41tz-eiuPnL._SX354_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

    FYI, for those interested, the BFI publishes many short (approx. 100 pages) summarizes and analyses on popular films like the Godfather (1972) and 2OO1 (1968). I recently purchased one on GUN CRAZY (1950) - one of my favorite film noirs and plan to buy more noir titles in the coming months.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    QoS is definitely very strong, not just because it features Bond standing up for himself after being called a traitor or liar all movie ("I never left") but because there's that great payoff between he and Yusef that allows him to move on from Vesper with a clear mind. And you can feel Bond and M's relationship deepen more and more throughout, as she gains more trust in him as he proves she can trust in him. In the end, he shows her he is her best agent, and that he will always been there to help. It's a great set up for what SF would portray, a very maternal relationship that M has for Bond that is very emotionally paid off at the end of that film as well ("Well, I did get one thing right").

    And OHMSS's ending has certainly been eloquently talked about to death (no pun intended). I don't think that film holds up near as well these days, but the ending is a strong and tragic part of what works in it all these decades later.


    That all being said, of what's on offer, I will just take a fruitless moment to stand up for NTTD, which I don't think gets enough credit for how effectively it concluded Craig's era. Part of what I appreciate about the film is that it's ballsy, and willing to take risks with characters you'd assume would be safe in any other era. The whole of the Craig era has been about this, actually, where any character could die. It was the first era to so brutally kill off the main girl in a manner that hits even harder than Tracy, such that you truly feel like you are watching Eva Green drown to death in that cage. It was the first era to kill an M, in a similarly tragic and hard hitting manner. Death would later go on to claim others close to Bond, including Mathis, his complicated father figure, and his brother in bond, Felix Leiter (another first for the series). If there was an era that would kill a James Bond, it would have to be Dan's, as I think he's the only one that would be able to pull off that tall order and make it feel so emotional and devastating.

    The idea of Bond dying in a film was something I'd thought about before, and could only imagine seeing Dan take that task on. Even then, though, I don't think I ever really thought they'd have the balls to do it, knowing it would fire up the fanbase as it has for reasons I still don't entirely understand. As I was watching the climax unfold, and watched Bond say goodbye to Madeliene and his kid, a different mood came over the film. It wasn't just another fight to save the day, it was Bond's last stand and it was gripping and emotional to see him ascending those stairs to ensure the virus would be destroyed. Outmanned, outgunned, he still comes through. It was great to see him in all his glory one last time, with all the injury and pain he'd faced in the past and only his warrior-survivor instinct remaining.

    As the action continued, NTTD puts Bond in a position we've never seen him in. He is truly up against it. When he realizes someone is undoing his work, and is closing the doors he'd just opened, he races back to re-save the day all over again as the limited time on the clock continues to wind down. His mind is also on his family, his daughter's precious stuffed animal with him. In this distracted haze, we see Bond shot multiple times by Safin, each shot hitting even harder. How could it be happening? To add insult to injury, before Safin is conclusively dispatched, Bond is "poisoned" with the inability to be near or touch those he loved ever again. Bleeding out from his wounds, his dreams of a future family life in tatters, Bond continues on. There's no time to complain, no time to bargain, no time to drop to his knees and give up. As always, he pushes forward with all he has and gets the doors opened again as he prepares to say his goodbyes, the clock continuing to wind down.

    What comes to us afterward is a death scene for James Bond that I never imagined I would appreciate as much as I do. I should hate it, should hate the movie for daring to kill him, yet I come away from it inspired and uplifted instead of bitter or depressed. In a world where we've watched iconic characters from countless franchises killed in disrespectful, brutal and cold-hearted ways that "subvert expectations," James Bond dies on his feet, at peace with who he is and what he's done. He gets to share his final words with the woman that made him dream about another life for the first time in as long as he can remember, and has it confirmed in those last moments that he indeed has a child and will leave behind a beautiful legacy in the form of a blue-eyed girl. Furthermore, he knows that he heads into the great unknown with his job and duty done, his family and friends (and the rest of the world!) in safe hands. Brave, selfless and heroic to the core, he raises his head to the sky and accepts his fate. For a Bond that was so broken and incomplete for so much of his era, it was emotionally satisfying to see him die so complete, at peace with all that he was and all that he was leaving behind.

    His MI6 family have a beautiful, yet quiet send-off to the best of them, the man that showed them all how the job should be done and how a life should be led. I love the understated nature of the eulogy, which is what Bond would want. It was never about accolades, rewards or sentimental obituaries for him, and I think the toast he receives from the MI6 crew is fitting for his personality and for the nature of the job. The Craig era perfectly adapted the spy world as Fleming crafted it. If you're a 00 you are already in a tumultuous relationship with life, and the Reaper could come for you any time. Bond says so himself, in M's flat in CR. Just as Fleming's Bond never imagined surviving the job to his retirement and lived every second to the fullest, as did Dan's Bond, and he ultimately stands as a 007 with a very similar legacy to that of his literary forefather, with all the complications, flaws and tragedy thrown in. He becomes "the burning boy on the deck" that Fleming's Bond was so inspired by, becoming a timeless heroic symbol for all those who knew him. The lonely orphan who grew into a lonely man matured over time into a professional, principled and caring man who embraced his friends, loved deeply and opened himself up to those around him. In death, he has nothing to regret.

    NTTD concludes my favorite era of Bond, and the story of who has become my favorite Bond. I will always have love and respect for what Connery did, but Connery never made me feel like this. I never watched his Bond and could so deeply relate to the humanity on display, the raw energy that Dan was so ridiculously capable of transmitting from the screen. He's a Bond I cheered for, cried for and have loved more than any other by a wide margin, and he was an important Bond for our time. It's a rough world that only gets more complicated as time goes on, but Dan was there to deliver us a 007 that cared about people, cared about the world, showed us how to live and how to die. NTTD couldn't have capped off this daring, emotional and deeply character driven era any better, and I think over time it will be more widely appreciated for how loyally it stuck to the themes and tone of the films that came before it.

    I also hope people will gradually get over the idea of Bond dying and stop looking at it as an unforgivable sin that taints everything around it, as I think they are missing the whole point of his death and what it signifies. None of us live forever, and in his short life Bond lived enough for a dozen lifetimes. In dying he proves exactly why we love him: he's brave, he's daring, he never stops until the job is done and he never waves the white flag for anyone. I don't understand how his death can be so hotly contested when he died so beautifully, and exactly in the way that he lived. I can't think of another action hero that continues to inspire me so heavily, and in leaving this role Dan leaves gargantuan boots to fill. I don't envy the next fella.

    I'll step off my soap box now...
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,438
    I don't have an issue of them killing off Bond. I think the handling of it was clumsy and rather pointless. I felt zero emotion when they did the office eulogy, or the Madeline to Matilde dialogue that ends the film.

    I would hazard a guess that Connery's Bond dying, or even Moore's Bond dying, I would shed a tear and have some heartstrings pulled. When Craig's Bond died I was left going, why? What was so pointless of his position? Why couldn't have swam off the island? What were the buyers up to that they had no way to stop them except to blow up the island?

    I think the writers painted themselves into a corner and then added things to the plot to help that. Or maybe it was Craig who seemed to demand he be killed. To me his death should serve the story, not come from the whim of an actor who owes much to Bond. For him to demand that the character die seems a bit prima donna for me.

    Maybe that hits to another reason I dislike the ending. That it was Craig who wanted the character killed. No other Bond actor has been given so much clout. Connery left the role because of the lack of control, Moore was happy to play along, Dalton and Lazenby didn't stay long enough to have control. Brosnan tried to lobby for things, but ended up with inferior product.

    I guess it is complex for me. I appreciate your passion @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 and you make some compelling reasons. For me NTTD ending left me cold and rather upset with the execution of an idea that had merit.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,789
    thedove wrote: »
    I don't have an issue of them killing off Bond. I think the handling of it was clumsy and rather pointless. I felt zero emotion when they did the office eulogy, or the Madeline to Matilde dialogue that ends the film.

    I would hazard a guess that Connery's Bond dying, or even Moore's Bond dying, I would shed a tear and have some heartstrings pulled. When Craig's Bond died I was left going, why? What was so pointless of his position? Why couldn't have swam off the island? What were the buyers up to that they had no way to stop them except to blow up the island?

    I think the writers painted themselves into a corner and then added things to the plot to help that. Or maybe it was Craig who seemed to demand he be killed. To me his death should serve the story, not come from the whim of an actor who owes much to Bond. For him to demand that the character die seems a bit prima donna for me.

    Maybe that hits to another reason I dislike the ending. That it was Craig who wanted the character killed. No other Bond actor has been given so much clout. Connery left the role because of the lack of control, Moore was happy to play along, Dalton and Lazenby didn't stay long enough to have control. Brosnan tried to lobby for things, but ended up with inferior product.

    I guess it is complex for me. I appreciate your passion @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 and you make some compelling reasons. For me NTTD ending left me cold and rather upset with the execution of an idea that had merit.

    True, we share the same feelings, again no against the idea of Bond dying, it's risky and unique as long as it's handled well, but they've dropped the ball in this one.

    Even Moore or Connery dying in that situation would not something I probably buy into.

    There's so many things he could get out of the island, why not isolate himself in some remote island until there's a new cure available? I did understand them destroying the whole island since it's a facility for nanobots.

    Maybe had he died when Safin shot him with him loosing so much blood or running out of time, maybe it would be at least a bit sad, because in there's no way he could get out of that situation.

    It's contrived, I don't also feel the emotion at the ending, that office eulogy, that Madeleine telling his legacy to Mathilde, I just don't feel anything.

    I've got it what they're trying to do and correcting some mistakes from SPECTRE, but the way they're trying to do it was also contrived.
    First why to introduce a new villain in Safin? What's Blofeld's purpose in this film (so he's just there to create a subplot involving Madeleine's betrayal, that in the end was underplayed and doesn't make sense)?

    That's the thing about their relationship, in SPECTRE, it's rushed, here it's fluctuating, It's not consistent.

    There's so many subplots in this film that felt overstuffed and not developed well, it's like they've got many ideas but stuffed it in one film.

    I still don't get some of their decisions made in this film, and like you, I still don't understand why some of those things happened.

    I don't have any issues if it was Craig's request, if my memory serves, RDJ did the same thing, but it worked for me, because of the way it's written.

    I still appreciate @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7's efforts, but I think to each their own on how they view the ending, it luckily worked for him, but suddenly not for us.
Sign In or Register to comment.