And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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Comments

  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 19 Posts: 4,483
    QBranch wrote: »

    And showing Bond again directly after the gun barrel is a big no-no for me. It's like:

    Gun barrel opens, and "Ta-da! Here's James Bond!" Then the iris opens up on the streets of Bilbao, and uh, "Ta-da! Here's James Bond! You just saw him a second ago, but here he is again! No wait- it's different this time - he's wearing glasses. Surprise!"
    Yes, it is very odd to open the circle by focusing on Bond's face right after the gun barrel. Maybe Michael Apted loved seeiing Brosnan with glasses?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,572
    Yes, it is very odd to open the circle by focusing on Bond's face right after the gun barrel. Maybe Michael Apted loved seeiing Brosnan with glasses?
    Sam Mendes knew that. He made the right choice by not having the gun barrel and hallway reveal side-by-side. It's not that big a deal to me, but the TWINE example stands out as disrupting the film's natural flow, and I would think it's something a professional far beyond my experience would've known.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    I like all of them, but GE is my favourite. The bungee jump, the infiltration of the facility, the interplay between Brosnan and Bean, the Serra score and the Cold War atmosphere in general make it one of my favourites in the entire series.

    Klebbie goes, quite reluctantly, to DAD. I really like it, but a few dodgy CGI moments and the 'Saved by the bell' comment take it slightly down for me.

  • GE for the Bondie.
    DAD for the Klebbie.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    Like the rest of the film, the DAD PTS feels overstuffed (Surfing! All the old Bond cars but updated! Diamonds in the face! Leaping land mines and flamethrowers! Waterfall!).

    It's all just too, too much, like a parody of Bond.

    TWINE's PTS is, relatively, more grounded.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 20 Posts: 16,383
    QBranch wrote: »
    Yes, it is very odd to open the circle by focusing on Bond's face right after the gun barrel. Maybe Michael Apted loved seeiing Brosnan with glasses?
    Sam Mendes knew that. He made the right choice by not having the gun barrel and hallway reveal side-by-side. It's not that big a deal to me, but the TWINE example stands out as disrupting the film's natural flow, and I would think it's something a professional far beyond my experience would've known.

    Yeah the hallway opening is pretty cool. And as he wanted to reveal that they’re in Istanbul later with the doorway reveal it’s kind of hard to think of another big cinematic way you can have Bond enter when he’s just indoors. Much as I would have liked the gunbarrel there I’m not sure how you would have done it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Bondie TND
    Klebbie TWINE
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 20 Posts: 6,298
    mtm wrote: »
    QBranch wrote: »
    Yes, it is very odd to open the circle by focusing on Bond's face right after the gun barrel. Maybe Michael Apted loved seeiing Brosnan with glasses?
    Sam Mendes knew that. He made the right choice by not having the gun barrel and hallway reveal side-by-side. It's not that big a deal to me, but the TWINE example stands out as disrupting the film's natural flow, and I would think it's something a professional far beyond my experience would've known.

    Yeah the hallway opening is pretty cool. And as he wanted to reveal that they’re in Istanbul later with the doorway reveal it’s kind of hard to think of another big cinematic way you can have Bond enter when he’s just indoors. Much as I would have liked the gunbarrel there I’m not sure how you would have done it.

    Yes, I see what you mean. I wonder if you could have had a 3D-ish gunbarrel that turns to the side, like opening a book. But it would still be opening on Bond himself, which is odd.

    The gunbarrel openings that I think were truly misconceived were FYEO (is it supposed to be an eye blinking open?) and SP.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like all of them, but GE is my favourite. The bungee jump, the infiltration of the facility, the interplay between Brosnan and Bean, the Serra score and the Cold War atmosphere in general make it one of my favourites in the entire series.

    Klebbie goes, quite reluctantly, to DAD. I really like it, but a few dodgy CGI moments and the 'Saved by the bell' comment take it slightly down for me.

    The german dubbing has the line:" I should go to church more often. "
    Would that have been better?
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,483
    echo wrote: »
    Like the rest of the film, the DAD PTS feels overstuffed (Surfing! All the old Bond cars but updated! Diamonds in the face! Leaping land mines and flamethrowers! Waterfall!).

    It's all just too, too much, like a parody of Bond.

    TWINE's PTS is, relatively, more grounded.

    I'm not sure if driving with a boat through a restaurant is more grounded...but I love this silly scene.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,572
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah the hallway opening is pretty cool. And as he wanted to reveal that they’re in Istanbul later with the doorway reveal it’s kind of hard to think of another big cinematic way you can have Bond enter when he’s just indoors. Much as I would have liked the gunbarrel there I’m not sure how you would have done it.
    They probably could've inserted the gun barrel either side of the title sequence with a bit of creativity, but all said and done I'm content with it being at the end of the film. It book-ends 50 years of cinema rather consciously and conspicuously so doesn't feel tacked on either.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Bondie: GE

    Klebbie: TND

    I can't say I've clicked as much with the TND PTS in the past many years as I have with the others. Even DAD, that PTS gets a lot right and is just an insane amount of fun to me.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,572
    Military themes in all of them except TWINE, I think. I wonder if it would otherwise rate higher.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I like all of them, but GE is my favourite. The bungee jump, the infiltration of the facility, the interplay between Brosnan and Bean, the Serra score and the Cold War atmosphere in general make it one of my favourites in the entire series.

    Klebbie goes, quite reluctantly, to DAD. I really like it, but a few dodgy CGI moments and the 'Saved by the bell' comment take it slightly down for me.

    The german dubbing has the line:" I should go to church more often. "
    Would that have been better?

    *shudder*. I'm glad I never watched DAD in its German version. Though "saved by the bell" reminds me mostly of one of the more kitschy old Bee Gees songs.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,135
    Bondie - GE

    Klebbie - TWINE
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,255
    Ge- amazing introduction of Bond, cool interplay with 006. All in all, a lot to like. The part that lets it slightly down is the motorcycle chase after the plane. An impressive stunt, done at the wrong place and time. Bond pulling the plane out of the dive is rather unbelievable.

    Tnd - epic Bond. He's doing his job indeed. What I like above all is that Bond himself is dead serious, whilst the interplay between the admiral and M gives the lighter touch without being unrealistic. Small letdown on how Bond takes out the other albatross.

    Twine - very extended, sort of mini movie, with too many consecutive things going on that should've been in the movie itself. But I guess just escaping Bilbao wouldn't be spectacular enough. Personally, I'm not too fond of the boat chase, which is done too much for laughs.

    Dad - Bond doing some proper spying, and getting caught. The hover-chase beeping slightly too cartoonist and too much tit-for-tat, of which way too much was to come later in the film. A promising start on which wasn't delivered.

    In the end, bondie to tnd, klebbie twine.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    edited April 20 Posts: 4,483
    Interestingly, many of us think that the TWINE opening is too long while noone feels the same way about DAD. Fact: the DAD PTS is only a little bit shorter (less than a minute!) and has the same length as the one from SF.
    The problem is that we have a jump in time from Bilbao to London and it looks like we already get the classical Moneypenny/M scene before the titles. In NTTD, the two long scenes are nicely linked with Madeleine in the water and it works for me as one long sequence.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,791
    Seeing TWINE in the theater and since I've relished the feeling back at MI6 headquarters that something's up. Why are we already here. The escape from the banker was okay, but is that it? What happened to the titles.

    Then Bond smells a rat.

    1a92dd6dbcc3913ae5bf594c79f9d331d9c7e328.gifv
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited April 20 Posts: 6,298
    Seeing TWINE in the theater and since I've relished the feeling back at MI6 headquarters that something's up. Why are we already here. The escape from the banker was okay, but is that it? What happened to the titles.

    Then Bond smells a rat.

    1a92dd6dbcc3913ae5bf594c79f9d331d9c7e328.gifv

    Feel like it might have been better to have a foot chase through Bilbao. Wasted location.

    Then the credits and the boat chase.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,844
    Bondie: GE
    Klebbie: TWINE
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,572
    Interestingly, many of us think that the TWINE opening is too long while noone feels the same way about DAD. Fact: the DAD PTS is only a little bit shorter (less than a minute!) and has the same length as the one from SF.
    The problem is that we have a jump in time from Bilbao to London and it looks like we already get the classical Moneypenny/M scene before the titles. In NTTD, the two long scenes are nicely linked with Madeleine in the water and it works for me as one long sequence.
    It's interesting isn't it. The way we perceive and expect things. I'm not thinking about the title sequence at all during the Bilbao scene, until that cut to London. Then it's front and centre of my mind for the whole London sequence. Maybe that's what lets the boat chase down for some. Not that it's not entertaining enough, but on a conscious level, our focus is more on "Normally, I'm hearing the theme song now. I know it's coming." rather than, "Damn look at that boat corkscrew over the yacht. He took the gun turret out with that move. He collected a shiny gold 007 token for that. And now the tie straighten underwater." The action scene doesn't receive every bit of our attention because of that expectation.

    The length, the Bond reveal after the gun barrel - at the end of the day it's all good and sparks conversation. Who knows, maybe Apted is a genius and approved of these unusual decisions to ensure people continue to talk about the film for years to come. :-?
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,298
    Remember when TWINE stood out because it was an action scene set in London? I do.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    Wonderful thoughts from the academy! We have enough votes to make some presentations.

    The Bondie for best PTS in a Brosnan Bond goes to Goldeneye which garnered 9 votes. The only other contender for the Bondie was Tomorrow Never Dies which received 7 votes.

    The Klebbie for worst PTS in a Brosnan Bond goes to The World Is Not Enough which received 12 votes from the academy. The next closest film to receive Klebbie consideration was Die Another Day which received 4 votes. Because one academy member gave a Klebbie vote to every PTS all films received at least one vote.

    We shall now move on to Sir Roger Moore and tackle his PTS. Fun fact in his first two outings he didn't appear, so we will only vote on the 5 that featured him as our man!

    Please give a Bondie and Klebbie for any of the following films:
    • The Spy Who Loved Me England needs Bond and he is off faster than you can disco to Bond '77! The PTS is known for the parachute ski jump, the first BIG stunt in a PTS!
    • Moonraker Bond is in flight, without a parachute! This film tries to top the big stunt in the PTS!
    • For Your Eyes Only a tender moment graveside is broken up by Blofeld. Stainless steel delicatessens are promised and Bond drops Blofeld off!
    • Octopussy no bull here, this PTS packs a punch and has some wonderful ariel and model work.
    • A View To A Kill Bond is on ice! The first appearance of snowboarding in a film is overshadowed by Beach Boy music.

    So dear academy members, which one is the best and which one needs a kick to the shins?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 21 Posts: 16,383
    They're all superb, but I guess:

    + TSWLM
    - AVTAK. It's good, but perhaps feels a little underheated next to the rest (and I like the Beach Boys music!).
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    Bondie: Moonraker - As iconic as the TSWLM ski jump is, I find the free falling plane jump to be more exciting and technically impressive. I also like the shuttle hijack over the submarine capture.

    Klebbie: AVTAK - I won't rag on the music choice, but even with the snowboard/surfing twist of The ski chase, it is just unfortunately a little tired for me compared to ski chases that have come before.

    All in all though, a strong listing for Bondie candidates as RM PTS's are the pinnacle of big extravagant stunts to get you excited for the movie to come. I could have easily given TSWLM or OP Bondie's here if they were included in other actor's tenures.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    MR
    AVTAK
  • Posts: 7,419
    OP for the bondie, love it, short, thrilling, and done with bravado. I also could have gone with MR!
    TSWLM for the klebbie, a shocker, yes I know, but apart from the sublime ski jump, the rest is a borefest?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited April 21 Posts: 8,216
    Bondie for Octopussy
    Klebbie for A View To A Kill (it's just an inferior version of TSWLM to me).
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,032
    TSWLM for the Bondie. Nothing beats the Union Jack parachute jump.

    FYEO for the Klebbie. Socking it to Kevin McClory is not enough reason for this delicatessen-in-stainless-steel nonsense without any relevance to the movie.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Octopussy for the Bondie.

    AVTAK for the Klebbie. Could have been excellent, but sloppily executed.
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