And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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  • Posts: 1,917
    First off, to get the also-rans out of the way:

    -MR, the female Bond equal just became a thing and we know it's Bond who's going to become the alpha whose skills will save the day and she'll get captured, etc. Although Holly has more skills than Anya had, even if I don't buy she's a trained shuttle pilot on top of it all.

    -SF, never bought the old agent thing. Of course he was shot and fell off a bridge, Bond isn't Wolverine, of course he's going to have some moments he's not his best. In NTTD, he's also been living off the grid for how long and his skills are never in question. In both films he's back to doing Bond things and we move on. NSNA also went that route.

    -NTTD, well, they did it. I still like the idea they were bold enough to go for this opposed to the cheap double entendre with the girl at the end. Like or dislike, it got people talking about Bond.

    The final two are vote are extremely tough as TWINE is my least favorite film and YOLT is one of the least-focused films that concentrates on everything but an effective story and throws in more than the kitchen sink, it throws in the kitchen as well.

    With TWINE, I just couldn't believe they let Bond kind of play the fool, not seeing through her act and all that, playing the romantic protector and the whole junior high love triangle that came out of it. Well, Brosnan asked for this and here's what you get. I know a lot of fans who fall for that execution scene and I'm not saying it's not effective, it just doesn't make up for how it made Bond look from the beginning. TWINE seems like a dry run for the Craig era, like they had a lot of new and different ideas they weren't ready to take all the way in favor of keeping the formula in place.

    So I go with YOLT Turning Japanese. While I give credit for actually using this bit of the book, when you consider everything else that was thrown out from it, it's just a big why bother? That operating theater thing is ridiculous with the all-female team clad in bikinis - what kind of budget does Tiger have for something like this? It's more fitting for a Matt Helm movie.

    Then you consider the whole thing is for naught as there are 2 attempts on Bond by the ninja with the blade staff and the poison in the rafters guy anyway. Didn't anybody from SPECTRE get suspicious when neither of these guys reported back? In the book I believe they staged an elaborate crash for the one. So ultimately, one dive into the sea and the Japanese look is all gone anyway. Bring on the ninja gear, suction cups and explosive devices that must've been among the fishing gear for the oyster gathering they started out with that morning.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    I must say I enjoy seeing these well thought out posts and thinking explained in some detail. Nice job @BT3366 even though I don't agree with all you have stated I like your explanations and how you got to your stated candidate.

    To the other academy members who have written in some other votes, thanks! It makes for a more interesting debate. :)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    My choice is TWINE. Sophie just doesn't cut it to my mind, and why Bond suddenly needs to be overly dramatic about it makes the whole thing even worse. 'I never miss' but you do crouch over the villain to... do what exactly?
    Bond is doubtfull from the start, but instead of discussing it with M he's just letting her come over to be taken to the tower. Nice little touch that, btw.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,030
    I'll also go with Bond turning Japanese...or what Connery would look if they yellow-faced him...oh, wait, they did. It serves no actual purpose, since the baddies never see him in his disguise, his Japanese sidekicks (including his "bride") know who he is, and the non-descript rest of the fisherman and -woman group doesn't seem to care. I found the scene cringe-inducing the first time I saw YOLT, and that was before anyone invented the term "politically correct".
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Yep. YOLT's my pick here too, for reasons already outlined very well by others.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 8 Posts: 3,789
    My question: I know the yellow face had been badly executed, but is it a good idea in the first place as the question asked ("Worst execution of a good idea")?

    Because in my opinion, it's also a bad idea, it's not a missed opportunity to begin with and something that I know, we could all live without 😅

    That's why I don't consider it in this list, the others have some potential in them (the female antagonist in TWINE, Bond's death in NTTD), I know that on paper, they're interesting, a good concept but poorly executed on screen, but I don't see any merits in Bond's Japanese disguise, it just serves no purpose, at least for me 😅, the only thing I'm seeing in it is, it's in the book, and even in the book, it doesn't makes sense either.

    It's an implausible thing to think of putting a Caucasian (a Scottish/British one) in an Asian disguise a la Mickey Rooney in 'Breakfast at Tiffany's'.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    My question: I know the yellow face had been badly executed, but is it a good idea in the first place as the question asked ("Worst execution of a good idea")?

    Because in my opinion, it's also a bad idea, it's not a missed opportunity to begin with and something that I know, we could all live without 😅

    I think that's a good point! :)
  • Posts: 1,340
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    My question: I know the yellow face had been badly executed, but is it a good idea in the first place as the question asked ("Worst execution of a good idea")?

    Because in my opinion, it's also a bad idea, it's not a missed opportunity to begin with and something that I know, we could all live without 😅

    That's why I don't consider it in this list, the others have some potential in them (the female antagonist in TWINE, Bond's death in NTTD), I know that on paper, they're interesting, a good concept but poorly executed on screen, but I don't see any merits in Bond's Japanese disguise, it just serves no purpose, at least for me 😅, the only thing I'm seeing in it is, it's in the book, and even in the book, it doesn't makes sense either.

    It's an implausible thing to think of putting a Caucasian (a Scottish/British one) in an Asian disguise a la Mickey Rooney in 'Breakfast at Tiffany's'.

    Yellow face was a bad idea (thanks, Fleming), but I think that's why it appears in the movie, because it's outlandish.

    It's the kind of thing you'd leave out in an adaptation but...
  • Posts: 4,139
    I will say, the way it was done was probably the best case scenario. I'm not sure if YOLT would have aged as well had Connery been put in Mickey Rooney-esque yellow face make-up.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 8 Posts: 16,383
    Quite weird that there were two Bond-in-disguise films in a row. Almost lucky that didn't become a recurring thing, he might have turned into Fletch.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,426
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    My question: I know the yellow face had been badly executed, but is it a good idea in the first place as the question asked ("Worst execution of a good idea")?

    Because in my opinion, it's also a bad idea, it's not a missed opportunity to begin with and something that I know, we could all live without 😅

    That's why I don't consider it in this list, the others have some potential in them (the female antagonist in TWINE, Bond's death in NTTD), I know that on paper, they're interesting, a good concept but poorly executed on screen, but I don't see any merits in Bond's Japanese disguise, it just serves no purpose, at least for me 😅, the only thing I'm seeing in it is, it's in the book, and even in the book, it doesn't makes sense either.

    It's an implausible thing to think of putting a Caucasian (a Scottish/British one) in an Asian disguise a la Mickey Rooney in 'Breakfast at Tiffany's'.

    I think there is an opportunity for Bond to go deep undercover. Which we really haven't seen since OHMSS. Even then it was gimmicky by having another actor dubbing over Laz. I think having Bond in a deep undercover could bring some tension. I remember the book of OHMSS had this wonderful element of suspense as Bond was un-armed and without a way to contact help. Something like that would be nice to see in the future.

    Please forgive me if it's been interpreted as I am condoning Bond going "yellow face". It was an awkward moment of the film for me.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    thedove wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    My question: I know the yellow face had been badly executed, but is it a good idea in the first place as the question asked ("Worst execution of a good idea")?

    Because in my opinion, it's also a bad idea, it's not a missed opportunity to begin with and something that I know, we could all live without 😅

    That's why I don't consider it in this list, the others have some potential in them (the female antagonist in TWINE, Bond's death in NTTD), I know that on paper, they're interesting, a good concept but poorly executed on screen, but I don't see any merits in Bond's Japanese disguise, it just serves no purpose, at least for me 😅, the only thing I'm seeing in it is, it's in the book, and even in the book, it doesn't makes sense either.

    It's an implausible thing to think of putting a Caucasian (a Scottish/British one) in an Asian disguise a la Mickey Rooney in 'Breakfast at Tiffany's'.

    I think there is an opportunity for Bond to go deep undercover. Which we really haven't seen since OHMSS. Even then it was gimmicky by having another actor dubbing over Laz. I think having Bond in a deep undercover could bring some tension. I remember the book of OHMSS had this wonderful element of suspense as Bond was un-armed and without a way to contact help. Something like that would be nice to see in the future.

    Please forgive me if it's been interpreted as I am condoning Bond going "yellow face". It was an awkward moment of the film for me.

    You're forgetting ltk. One of the best films regarding actual spy-work.

    I disagree btw that it was a bad idea in the novel, there it's wonderfully executed and it serves a purpose. Bond isn't an assassin at all. And in 1950ties Japan, a 6 ft Brit would stand out for miles and miles. That's why the fisherman story works, there.
  • edited July 9 Posts: 1,340
    Dubbing Lazenby was worse than the japanese disguise. At least they gave us an explanation.

    I never liked the Japanese disguise but it's not because of political correctness. It was just silly.

  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,030
    Dubbing Lazenby was worse than the japanese disguise. At least they gave us an explanation.

    I never liked the Japanese disguise but it's not because of political correctness. It was just silly.

    Seconded. Also, a six-foot person looking like Sean Connery trying to look Japanese would also have stood out for miles and miles.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    The only reason it might work in the novel is because you can't see him!
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited July 9 Posts: 3,789
    Disguises doesn't work with Bond, after all, we complain about the clown suit in OP either.
    mtm wrote: »
    The only reason it might work in the novel is because you can't see him!

    Reasonable 😅, but logically, it wouldn't work and it couldn't.
    The Japanese makeup just couldn't work, I don't know why Fleming thought of that? Cashing in more to the Japanese culture or what? Even Bond's dubbing in OHMSS, if applied with logic, could be reasonable, especially given that Bond done a lot of research prior to disguising as Hillary Bray and he could use some voice impersonation training, but the Japanese disguise just doesn't serve any purpose.

    If that works, then Colonel Tan-Sun Moon should've done it in DAD to be a Caucasian (Gustav Graves) instead of some DNA, genetic scientific replacement nonsense 😅, and here comes EON, simply debunking themselves.
  • edited July 9 Posts: 1,340
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Disguises doesn't work with Bond, after all, we complain about the clown suit in OP either.

    Yeah, I think that's why the Peter Franks thing worked better. If they had put a fake beard on him they would have ruined the whole thing.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Disguises doesn't work with Bond, after all, we complain about the clown suit in OP either.

    Gosh, I don't.
  • Posts: 15,116
    mtm wrote: »
    Quite weird that there were two Bond-in-disguise films in a row. Almost lucky that didn't become a recurring thing, he might have turned into Fletch.

    Three, if you count DAF. Okay, he only assumes a different identity, but still.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,297
    mtm wrote: »
    The only reason it might work in the novel is because you can't see him!

    +1. I understand Bond needed to infiltrate the village but sheesh it makes no practical sense in the novel.

    If it were something like: Bond needed to hide out at Kissy's like a safe house until he could get to Blofeld, and kill whoever saw him (friend or foe) to maintain his cover, that would be more spy-like, and believable.
  • Posts: 4,139
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    The only reason it might work in the novel is because you can't see him!

    +1. I understand Bond needed to infiltrate the village but sheesh it makes no practical sense in the novel.

    If it were something like: Bond needed to hide out at Kissy's like a safe house until he could get to Blofeld, and kill whoever saw him (friend or foe) to maintain his cover, that would be more spy-like, and believable.

    I always find the part in the book where Bunt immediately recognises Bond quite funny. It’s played up a bit as surprise, but effectively she says that’s clearly Bond.

    Same for some fans trying to justify Blofeld in OHMSS not recognising Bond by saying he was in Japanese make up in YOLT. Even if that were true (it’s not) it’s not exactly a deceptive disguise.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited July 10 Posts: 3,152
    mtm wrote: »
    The only reason it might work in the novel is because you can't see him!
    :)) Classic. And true.
  • Posts: 1,917
    thedove wrote: »
    I must say I enjoy seeing these well thought out posts and thinking explained in some detail. Nice job @BT3366 even though I don't agree with all you have stated I like your explanations and how you got to your stated candidate.

    To the other academy members who have written in some other votes, thanks! It makes for a more interesting debate. :)

    Thanks, I enjoy these threads as they get me thinking about the movies in fresh ways.
  • Posts: 15,116
    007HallY wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    The only reason it might work in the novel is because you can't see him!

    +1. I understand Bond needed to infiltrate the village but sheesh it makes no practical sense in the novel.

    If it were something like: Bond needed to hide out at Kissy's like a safe house until he could get to Blofeld, and kill whoever saw him (friend or foe) to maintain his cover, that would be more spy-like, and believable.

    I always find the part in the book where Bunt immediately recognises Bond quite funny. It’s played up a bit as surprise, but effectively she says that’s clearly Bond.

    Same for some fans trying to justify Blofeld in OHMSS not recognising Bond by saying he was in Japanese make up in YOLT. Even if that were true (it’s not) it’s not exactly a deceptive disguise.

    Well, I'm one of these fans. It's not well executed in the previous movie, but obviously it's a Watsonian explanation: in universe the disguise worked, even though out of universe, for the viewers it did not.
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