And the Klebbie goes to...Worst execution of a good idea page 147

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 16,422
    I rather like the DN score and it was considered good enough that some of it was reused in FRWL.

    Where the musical score of DN is used in FRWL (and not credited to Monty Norman), I really expect that's John Barry's. That's why he was brought in, Norman's scoring work was deemed unusable.

    What do you mean- you think Barry wrote that bit of music for Dr No? I really don't think so- it's noticeably worse. If that's what you mean...?
    I also credit the James Bond Theme 90% or more to John Barry. It's criminal he's formally given no credit for it.

    Careful now: the lawyers are everywhere! :D

    I though David Arnold was quite ballsy on his radio show on the subject actually: he came as close as anyone I've ever heard to publicly saying that Barry wrote most of it. Which he obviously didn't, Mr Norman!
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,812
    If it's bad it's designed to match Norman's even worse incidental music. But if it was Norman's and used in the next film he'd have screamed bloody murder for recognition and compensation is my thinking.

    The court cases over the years on the Bond Theme could warrant a film on their own. Is Tom Hanks recovered yet?

    I forget, is there a transcript of the original Laserdisc commentary that spoke to this.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 16,422
    If it's bad it's designed to match Norman's even worse incidental music. But if it was Norman's and used in the next film he'd have screamed bloody murder for recognition and compensation is my thinking.

    I expect he would have been paid (if they needed to, depending on his original contract) and don't forget he gets credited for every Bond film, so recognition shouldn't be an issue.
    The court cases over the years on the Bond Theme could warrant a film on their own.

    I can't see Norman allowing it! :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2020 Posts: 8,188
    Barry made the mistake of claiming the Bond theme was his entirely. He was being too greedy, and that resulted in losing any shot at getting credit. That gave Norman all the ammo he needed to debunk that with evidence. What Barry should have done was point out to the sections where he contributed and claim for a co-writer credit, or do a special credit like “theme written by Monty Norman with John Barry”. Recently that’s what happened with Batman finally being credited to Bill Finger with the credit “Batman created by Bob Kane with Bill Finger”.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,422
    Yeah I guess he got so pissed off over the years of having no credit at all that he tried to take all of it, whereas it does seem pretty clear that Norman certainly did write the ‘terrible sneeze’ part, and the other parts of of the track were composed to fit around and extrapolate from that melody.
    By Mr Norman of course.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,812
    In following films, Norman was credited specifically for The James Bond Theme. A supremely great credit, but nothing more.

    And he's only Monty Norman for life.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2020 Posts: 8,188
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I guess he got so pissed off over the years of having no credit at all that he tried to take all of it, whereas it does seem pretty clear that Norman certainly did write the ‘terrible sneeze’ part, and the other parts of of the track were composed to fit around and extrapolate from that melody.
    By Mr Norman of course.

    You can hear the Bond theme all over that original Norman song, not just the one part. Barry just did an amazing job taking the fundamentals and radically reshaping them. Turning something average into something great.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,434
    As Bill Conti plays me out to the stage with a rousing rendition of "Make It Last All Night". I take out the envelope and announce the Klebbie for worst soundtrack to a Bond film goes to....Thomas Newman from Spectre!

    The academy votes show as follows:

    SP received 16 votes
    Bill Conti and FYEO received 7 votes
    Eric Serra and GE received 6 votes
    Monty Norman and DN received 6 votes!

    Lets turn back to a Bondie and this time touch on a classic staple (or is it a trope?) of the series. The melee or epic good versus bad final showdown. Although not so much a staple of the more recent films, this was in a lot of the earlier productions. Whether it's been Space Rangers, Ninjas or the Navy, Bond has led the good guys in a final brawl for it all. This Bondie shall be awarded to "Best Melee". Some things for the esteemed academy to consider could be:
    • How crazy or intense is the battle
    • Is it a creative showdown or merely a yawn fest
    • How many bad guys get thrown through the air
    • The use of pyrotechnics

    Without further ado the nominees are:
    • Bond and the ninjas turn Japanese and storm the volcano lair of SPECTRE from YOLT
    • Bond and Kermin Bey help out the gypsy's in their war with the Bulgarians in FRWL
    • Bond takes the Navy of three countries and battles on Liparus in TSWLM
    • Bond takes it underwater and battles frogmen with help from the US Navy from TB
    • Bond and Draco do a demolition of Piz Gloria from OHMSS

    Okay dear academy please vote for best melee!
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    Underwater TB Battle
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Assault on Piz Gloria
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Of these, I go for YOLT.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Definitely the Piz Gloria sequence from OHMSS.
  • Posts: 1,009
    Assault on Piz Gloria for me.
  • What, no space battle from Moonraker?

    The nominees are all pretty good, actually. I have a sentimental favorite with Bond, Kerim Bey and the gypsies in FRWL ... but I have to go with Bond and the ninjas in the volcano lair from YOLT. What a lair! What a melee! Bad buys thrown through the air? Check! Ninjas descending into the volcano on ropes at breakneck speed? Check! Explosions aplenty? Check! PLUS: the lunatic white cat clawing at Blofeld's tunic, yowling the feline equivalent of "Let me the heck outta here!" I'm sorry, but the cat beats out every other proposed melee scene. YOLT for the win!
  • Posts: 2,918
    All the melees are excellent. If one was judging solely in terms of scale, YOLT or TSWLM might win. And perhaps the FRWL battle, fine as it was, would be too scale-scale to qualify. The TB battle is epic-sized, but invariably slowed by occurring underwater. The demolition of Piz Gloria is the best directed and edited battle, so I would probably give it the Bondie, despite the tough competition.

  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    Definitely

    Bond and the ninjas turn Japanese and storm the volcano lair of SPECTRE from YOLT

    Made quite an impression on me as a child.
    What, no space battle from Moonraker?

    Indeed. I love that one. I'd easily replace the FRWL melee with the MR space battle on the Dove's nominees list and you'd have my top 005 final battles. (The FRWL battle is good but it's not a final battle). I guess it's from his experience on directing war movies but one thing Lewis Gilbert knew how to stage well was spectacular battle sequences.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,434
    I sense controversy brewing here. Maybe I should have gone with 6 nominees? Ah well I decided to keep the melees to earth and not the stars. I was not sure whether to put FRWL in here or not. However it has many action pieces going on and was the really the first big battle to be seen in the films.

    If I was voting I would go with the TB melee. The ballet of death and the creative ways people are killed is enough for me. Then when you layer on how difficult it was to shoot this sequence it pushes it above the melee with the Ninjas! To me that's the standard.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,154
    Tough choice three of them are from my top three Bond films FRWL, TB and OHMSS.

    Bond takes it underwater and battles frogmen with help from the US Navy from TB
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,016
    Gotta be the assault on Piz Gloria for me. Great sequence, with fantastic editing and music as well as Lazza sliding on ice while firing a machine gun!

    Runner up would be the battle on the Liparus.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,148
    TB’s underwear mayhem.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    All fine choices but I just love TB's underwater battle.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,422
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I guess he got so pissed off over the years of having no credit at all that he tried to take all of it, whereas it does seem pretty clear that Norman certainly did write the ‘terrible sneeze’ part, and the other parts of of the track were composed to fit around and extrapolate from that melody.
    By Mr Norman of course.

    You can hear the Bond theme all over that original Norman song, not just the one part. Barry just did an amazing job taking the fundamentals and radically reshaping them. Turning something average into something great.

    Which Norman song do you mean?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 16,422
    thedove wrote: »

    Lets turn back to a Bondie and this time touch on a classic staple (or is it a trope?) of the series. The melee or epic good versus bad final showdown. Although not so much a staple of the more recent films, this was in a lot of the earlier productions. Whether it's been Space Rangers, Ninjas or the Navy, Bond has led the good guys in a final brawl for it all. This Bondie shall be awarded to "Best Melee". Some things for the esteemed academy to consider could be:
    • How crazy or intense is the battle
    • Is it a creative showdown or merely a yawn fest
    • How many bad guys get thrown through the air
    • The use of pyrotechnics

    Without further ado the nominees are:
    • Bond and the ninjas turn Japanese and storm the volcano lair of SPECTRE from YOLT
    • Bond and Kermin Bey help out the gypsy's in their war with the Bulgarians in FRWL
    • Bond takes the Navy of three countries and battles on Liparus in TSWLM
    • Bond takes it underwater and battles frogmen with help from the US Navy from TB
    • Bond and Draco do a demolition of Piz Gloria from OHMSS

    Okay dear academy please vote for best melee!


    I don't really like the melee scenes in the old Bond films: I tend to find all of them quite dull. Just lots of edited together shots of stuntmen doing poorly acted big falls.

    But, of these ones... the FRWL one is pretty good and has decent tension with Grant actually helping Bond out with 007 unawares; the TSWLM has a good plot to it as they all advance and set each other free, get the bomb etc.
    And, well, those are the only two decent ones I think: TB's is the most boring part of a boring film. I'll go for TSWLM, even though it's far from my favourite bit of the film.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Can't decide between TB or TSWLM at this stage...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    This one goes to OHMSS, no question. The FRWL scene is also a good one.
  • Posts: 7,434
    For me its a 3 way battle (sic!)
    TB, YOLT and OHMSS.
    Going to go with the Piz Gloria attack, mainly for one of the coolest Bond scenes of Laz sliding on the ice with machine gun!
  • Of these nominees, I would say the melee from FRWL is the weakest, thus leaving strong contenders for the Bondie. Ultimately, my vote goes to the assault on Piz Gloria.
  • Posts: 4,044
    YOLT melee
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    TB, YOLT and OHMSS are all amazing...

    By a Blofeld's cat's whisker, I will take Piz Gloria as the winner.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Going for TB.
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