What If Plot Involves a Virus?

Ludovico

Thunderpussy wrote: »

I believe SPECTRE is know for having Big Balls. ........ or is that The Prisoner ?

That cult/club in Eyes Wide Shut too.

phantomvices

Ludovico wrote: »

phantomvices wrote: »

I personally think that, given the scene at the SPECTRE ball with all the agents falling all except for Bond, it's going to be like a targeted virus that only affects people with certain genes - or rather, spares people with certain genetics, simulating what appears to be something like a heart attack - the virus appears to be something along the lines of Metal Gear Solid's FOXDIE, as a reference.

Do we know it's a Spectre meeting/ball for certain?

We know that, a the very least, it is some sort of meeting between a lot of SPECTRE agents all at that Cuban bar

zebrafish

It cannot be a virus if it kills (?) people instantly, as in the SPECTRE ball scene. The incubation period of any known virus is at least 1 day, due to the time it takes to dock to a cell and gain entrance and then affect a vital process, but in order to act within a time frame of minutes it has to be a poison.
But then, we know that movie scripts sometimes take rather illogical scientific freedoms.

talos7

zebrafish wrote: »

It cannot be a virus if it kills (?) people instantly, as in the SPECTRE ball scene. The incubation period of any known virus is at least 1 day, due to the time it takes to dock to a cell and gain entrance and then affect a vital process, but in order to act within a time frame of minutes it has to be a poison.
But then, we know that movie scripts sometimes take rather illogical scientific freedoms.

A poison makes more sense, but... what if a weaponized virus that has been manipulated to rapidly "dock to a cell and gain entrance and then affect a vital process"? In essence it would be a fast acting viral poison.

When it comes to Bond villain, their schemes have often involved science that is several beats ahead of current science.

QBranch

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Dragonpol

Perhaps it's some kind of mutated virus such as the West Nile virus which appeared in Raymond Benson's last Bond novel The Man with the Red Tattoo (2002). In fact I heard speculation on a Bond live stream last summer that the NTTD trailer had shown something that appears in one of the continuation novels. The contributor didn't say which novel he had in mind or to what he was referring to specifically but I thought that it was an interesting observation.

mtm

zebrafish wrote: »

It cannot be a virus if it kills (?) people instantly, as in the SPECTRE ball scene. The incubation period of any known virus is at least 1 day, due to the time it takes to dock to a cell and gain entrance and then affect a vital process, but in order to act within a time frame of minutes it has to be a poison.
But then, we know that movie scripts sometimes take rather illogical scientific freedoms.

That's a good point actually: a targeted poison bio weapon does seem a bit more Bondy somehow.

Ludovico

zebrafish wrote: »

It cannot be a virus if it kills (?) people instantly, as in the SPECTRE ball scene. The incubation period of any known virus is at least 1 day, due to the time it takes to dock to a cell and gain entrance and then affect a vital process, but in order to act within a time frame of minutes it has to be a poison.
But then, we know that movie scripts sometimes take rather illogical scientific freedoms.

Maybe that's why the virus in NTTD, if indeed it is a virus, is so important to Safin and so dangerousin the wrong hands: it's extremely fast. A tad sci-fi for my taste, but not overly so.

zebrafish

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Ludovico

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Interesting. And I think you got it right.

Dragonpol

Ludovico wrote: »

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Interesting. And I think you got it right.

Yes, indeed. Spot the scientist. 👌

Mallory

As long as the film presents it in a semi-plausible manner, I am not too fussed if it isnt entirely 100% scientific.

Ludovico

Dragonpol wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Interesting. And I think you got it right.

Yes, indeed. Spot the scientist. 👌

It'll be far more plausible and would make a hell of a lot more sense than cloning Madeleine to create an army of brainwashed female terrorists.

Dragonpol

Ludovico wrote: »

Dragonpol wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Interesting. And I think you got it right.

Yes, indeed. Spot the scientist. 👌

It'll be far more plausible and would make a hell of a lot more sense than cloning Madeleine to create an army of brainwashed female terrorists.

Indeed, that sounds like something from the 1967 spoof version of Casino Royale where I believe Dr Noah cloned world leaders such as Castro!

mtm

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

That's great, really interesting, thanks.

Ludovico

Dragonpol wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

Dragonpol wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Interesting. And I think you got it right.

Yes, indeed. Spot the scientist. 👌

It'll be far more plausible and would make a hell of a lot more sense than cloning Madeleine to create an army of brainwashed female terrorists.

Indeed, that sounds like something from the 1967 spoof version of Casino Royale where I believe Dr Noah cloned world leaders such as Castro!

With a poison I'd buy it, easily, I wouldn't think it's top sci-fi.

mtm

Yup, I could buy a targeted poison, certainly. That's not too crazy.

Dragonpol

Ludovico wrote: »

Dragonpol wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

Dragonpol wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

Interesting. And I think you got it right.

Yes, indeed. Spot the scientist. 👌

It'll be far more plausible and would make a hell of a lot more sense than cloning Madeleine to create an army of brainwashed female terrorists.

Indeed, that sounds like something from the 1967 spoof version of Casino Royale where I believe Dr Noah cloned world leaders such as Castro!

With a poison I'd buy it, easily, I wouldn't think it's top sci-fi.

Yes, it would be easier to swallow and more real world in nature. I suppose you could say it's spy-fi instead.

RichardTheBruce

The concept of smart blood was already introduced. A natural to put to villainous use, as an on-demand trigger.


I heard about this real world development last week, research development by the US Army.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gen-army-covid-vaccine-heard-begun-human-trials/story?id=76901332

The WRAIR vaccine skips both the instruction and creation steps, bringing the already-formed spike protein straight into the arm along with an immune-boosting adjuvant compound, quickly starting the antibody response.

And unlike other protein-based vaccines being tested, the WRAIR candidate presents virus-looking nanoparticles, each with a consistent array of 24 spike proteins arranged in small bouquets of three protruding from a ferritin base.

"There's a lot of theories as to why something presented in this fashion gives such a good immune response, but in some ways you can see it looks like a virus as well," Modjarrad said. "So it has some properties that educate the immune response in a way that it gives you a very strong, but also a broad response."

Test results with thousands of mice and dozens of monkeys have been promising.

Since62

As we have seen before, things which come out in movies and seem ridiculous can pale besides that which soon gets developed in the real world -- or already has been developed !

RichardTheBruce

On the original notice I saw, @Since62, the Army was looking for human volunteers to continue testing.

Since62

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle !

Dragonpol

An Army of trained monkeys? Sounds like something Irma Bunt would have gotten up to in the Australian outback...

QBranch

zebrafish wrote: »

QBranch wrote: »

I mentioned here and on the production thread that the vial I saw contained a poison. That's how it was described to me. A vial of 'poison serum'.

Serum is the watery component of blood or cells. A poison normally does not need to be stored in serum, unless it has a protein-component - like a virus or a cell. Therefore I'm trying some scientific thinking here:

"Poison serum" would suggest that the poison is coupled to a protein or enzyme that renders it deadly only in selected people, for example people previously exposed to a form of protein-activator, which then can activate the poison serum. This explains why Bond is unaffected: without priming by first exposure, the poison cannot be activated. Moreover, if it is semi-stable, it will inactivate itself over time. If the plot contains a globe-wide poisoning scheme of humans (á la MR), this has the advantage that animal predators will not be killed after predating the human corpses or that ground water will be poisoned.

The other way around would work even better: Prior to the SPECTRE ball, Bond is "pre-infected" with a substance that rapidly sequesters or inactivates the poison. Thus all people with timely and previous access to this antidote will survive an assasination with the poison serum.

Lastly, the poison seems to be airborne, thus it enters through the lungs and nasal epithelia. The people at the ball drop to the floor, as if unconscious, certainly not suffocating. This suggests that the poison makes their blood pressure drop suddenly. Other possibilities are loss of muscle control, when acetylcholine at the connections between nerves and muscles is rapidly destroyed. For this to happen quickly, however, the poison needs to enter the blood stream. Snake venoms work this way. In any case, the explanation given in the film will most likely not be totally satisfactory.

One last point, concerning the water-farm in Safin's lair: Toxins produced by algae (phycotoxins) can be any kind of nasty stuff. I am almost sure Safin is running an algal farm producing phycotoxins that are post-processed to be combined with some protein to form the "poison serum".

@zebrafish I enjoyed your write-up of the poison serum, some interesting ideas there, especially with the algae. I'll try to get my vial painted this weekend so I can show a pic of it here.

A bit of Bond trivia: the term 'serum' has been used before within the Bond universe, in the 2005 videogame FRWL. Connery's Bond uses a 'serum gun' which is a tranquilizer gun carrying darts with a clear yellow liquid. One shot 'temporarily turns an enemy against his comrades'.