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Die Another Day - will it age gracefully?

HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
edited December 2011 in Bond Movies Posts: 4,399
i pose a question, for all of those that love MR - and even to those that don't....... do you seem the same 180 being pulled with DAD in the next 20 years?.. do you think in 20 years, some people will be sitting on here, singing the same praises for DAD that many currently do for MR?...... not trying to make or prove a point here... just naturally curious as to some opinions on this board...

i am asking, because arguably, DAD was the MR of this generation.. it was loud, silly, over the top - and both films necessitated an immediate change in the style and direction that the films were made following them.... so, in say 20 years - do you think DAD will start to get the same treatment?.... after years of repeated viewing, do you think it will start to be cut some slack as arguably the worst Bond film ever made?

thoughts..
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Comments

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    I know wine turns into vinegar. I've never heard of vinegar turning into wine.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    The cg in DAD was naff in 2002 and its still naff in 2011 so...no.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,678
    As I mentioned elsewhere, I wasn't disappointed with DAD when it came out- mainly due to me being younger and not analyzing or knowing all things Bond like I think I do now. Personally, I will never like DAD less than I do now (and I'm quite fond of it), but I may just grow to love it more in future- especially if similarly weak Bond films continue to get made. It's entirely possible that future Bond films miss the mark, helping DAD to rise from the very bottom of many people's 'favourite Bond film list'.
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    No, don't see that happening. Those loving it or appreciating it for its merits (does have merits) will still do 20 years from now. Those hating it for the fool's errand to marry everything with everything likewise will. It will maybe gain a little worth as curio, as of it has been a science fiction flick, Bond twenty years into the future, only the future will look nothing like DAD.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    I suspect not.

    Just like Charles Feldmans Casino Royale is still seen as a mess forty years after the event - I suspect it will be the same with DAD. There are those who admire the individual merits of CR67 ie the soundtrack, production design etc but there is always something that kicks you out of it and its back to "what a load of crud"

    There are admirable aspects to DAD ie Cuba, Raoul....but there is too much wrong with it for its reputation ever to recover the ways OHMSS and OPs has.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    For me DAD is like AVTAK. I know it's cheesy but I still like it.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,723
    DAD is an excellent film, a fantastic outing. Alongside MR. DAF and YOLT, DAD is just pure fun, pure entertainement... A real middle-finger-showing to the melodramatic, overly serious TWINE, and a return to the more fun, epic, entertaining outings. And it also features a very Fleming-esque performance from Brosnan.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    real middle-finger-showing to the melodramatic, overly serious DAD,

    You mean TWINE, don't you? But I agree, DAD is much better than TWINE.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited December 2011 Posts: 7,653
    I always enjoyed DAD except for the loud and stupid ending, and some of the terrible CGI , for me CR suffers a similar fate. Decent movie and then that aweful ending (sinking house) which proved to me that EON hadn't learned anything of their mistakes.
    DAD will be looked friendlier upon in a year of five to ten.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    PanchitoPistoles wrote:
    For me DAD is like AVTAK. I know it's cheesy but I still like it.

    I know what you mean. I was watching it on TV a few weeks ago and actually found myself...eek enjoying it (at least until the Iceland part where I was just cringing constantly). OK there were some bad bits like the Bond/Jix dialogue and Madonna but I just kind of treated it as a bit of fun.
    :\"> :\">

    I think with DAD if you don't go in expecting much then you may enjoy it more - emphasis on MAY.

    I also liked Brozza in it with his cocky "I don't give a damm" attitude. Didn't he once say that he considered it his best performance?

    "Just surving Mr Chang, just surviving"
    "It's the addition of the vilada tabacco...slow burning...it never goes out"
    "yeah well don't worry about it, I'm not here to take it back"
    "Do it, now get out...unless you really want to give me a massage"
    "yet they're identical to African conflict diamonds...what an amazing coincidence"
    "Maybe you've been down here too long"
    "My defence mechanism is right here"

    One can't deny the boarderline incompetent way some of the film is made though. At least films like MR and OP were relitively well put together. That's what's made them more popular amongst fans. I suspect DAD will be similar to Batman & Robin, it will have a hard-core group of fans but ultimately be seen as the film that almost destroyed the credibility an iconic character.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Yes @BAIN123, Brosnan's performance in DAD is a total slap in the face to his previous work in TWINE, and even TND. I dare even say Brosnan was even better in DAD than GE. A real Flemingesque performance. DAD is a massive f you to TWINE, and to the 2 films that came after it. DAD is just Bond at his best - pure fun and entertainement. DAD is a definitive top 10, even top 7 material. Up there with TMWTGG, DAF, MR, TSWLM, YOLT and TB.

    I am really fond of YOLT, MR and DAD... Altough DAD is still not as good as the other 2... due to their magnificient sets, locations, cinematography and Barry score.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Yes @BAIN123, I dare even say Brosnan was even better in DAD than GE. .

    Agreed. The more I think about it the more I feel GE is his best film but weakest performance. I think he came fairly close to "nailing Bond" in DAD though. Probably one of his best scenes was the exchange between Bond and M in the underground station. There you really got the sense he was a burnt out agent with a dry sense of humour who just wanted to get on with his job.

    M: So called beauty parlour. We heard rumours of such a place, I didn't know it even existed
    Bond: It doesn't anymore...Zao got away.

    I don't know why but I like the line and the way Brozza delivers it.

    Shame he was starting to age and look a bit podgy.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    GE was his 3rd best performance, behind TND (the vodka scene in the hotel is just magnificient), but miles ahead of his appaling TWINE performance. But yes GE is a fantastic film... but I'd put DAD just ahead of it in my rankings.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,399
    lines i did like from DAD...


    General Moon : "You... you took away my son."

    Bond : "Your firing squad should've done the job for me."
    Annoying Guy: "What the hell do you want? I don't need no goddamn wheel chair."

    Bond : "No? *punch*.. You do now."
    Bond : *after clipping Graves' wrist in fencing* "Oh dear... would you like to continue??"
    Bond : "Plenty of ice... if you can spare it."


    I do have to admit, Brosnan's cockiness and snobbery were at full tilt in this film.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I didn't think he was that bad in TWINE but inconsistant. He went from good to bad to good to bad. One bit of TWINE I thought he was great in was the Q scene:

    "you're not retiring anytime soon...are you?"

    Thats one little moment where he seems genuinely saddened at the idea of the beloved Q leaving him.

    There are other bits I like. His confrontation with Electra at the end before he kills her was good as was his confrontation with Zukovski

    "get lost...no no no no down the back" - that line makes me smile. Flippant and funny.

    I think he's a bit more commanding in stature than in GE too.
    HASEROT wrote:
    lines i did like from DAD...

    General Moon : "You... you take away my son."

    Bond : "Your firing squad should've done the job for me."
    Annoying Guy: "What the hell do you want? I don't need no goddamn wheel chair."

    Bond : "No? *punch*.. You do now."
    Bond : *after clipping Graves' wrist in fencing* "Oh dear... would you like to continue??"
    Bond : "Plenty of ice... if you can spare it."



    Agreed they were all great lines.

    You forgot

    "Maybe its time you let me got on with my job".
  • ReneMathisReneMathis
    Posts: 165
    You can roll a turd in as much glitter as you can find, but it will always be a turd
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I didn't think he was that bad in TWINE but inconsistant. He went from good to bad to good to bad. One of TWINE I thought he was great in was the Q scene:

    "you're not retiring anytime soon...are you?"

    Thats one little moment where he seems genuinely saddened at the idea of the beloved Q leaving him.

    There are other bits I like. His confrontation with Electra at the end before he kills her was good as was his confrontation with Zukovski

    "get lost...no no no no down the back" - that line makes me smile. Flippant and funny.

    I think he's a bit more commanding in stature than in GE too.

    TWINE i consider Brosnan's best all around performance in the role... sure, at times it may be off - but i never mentioned it was perfect... i think the overall range and depth of his performance in the film is better than his other efforts.... you mentioned the scene with Elektra at the end, that is a bit I like as well... but the first confrontation of Renard is a scene I've always liked.. Brosnan and Carlyle play very well off each other in that scene IMO... and much like Moore, Brosnan showed he could have an edge if he really wanted to...

    GE and TND were his safest performances as Bond...

    in DAD, he had his moments... but it felt like it was just one gear from start to finish, with a drizzle of snobbery over it... at times he is exactly how I picture Bond being - but then there are scenes where the dialog is so laughably bad that no amount of brilliant acting could salvage it...

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    One scene I think Brozza is great in in DAD is the one where he confronts Graves. True he looks a bit podgy in that black jumper but I think he acts it pretty well, not to mention the bit where he tries (and fails) to kill Miranda.

    "oh good... I'm glad to hear that"
    "occupational hazard"
    "The coldest weapon of all"
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    As I have mentioned in another post, this film seemed to get pretty positive reviews at the time of release (in terms of the press etc), now the Brosnan era seems to get a lot of stick but when Brosnan took over the role, it was lauded as a return to form from the "dire Dalton days", even though Dalton got good reviews at the time, and was supposed to have rejuvinated the series after Roger Moore, there seems to be a pattern here!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    People are fickle when it comes to Bond, thats what I've noticed in my comparitively short time as a fan (since the age of 9 in 1995). They'll praise the current Bond and dump on the previous one.
  • actonsteveactonsteve
    Posts: 1,492
    HASEROT wrote:

    GE and TND were his safest performances as Bond...

    Every performance of his was a safe performance as Bond.

    Thats why he was cast. Safe pair of hands. He didnt take the character, shake it and give us something different like Craig, Dalton or even Moore.

    Its not his fault. He is just not that kind of actor.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I get the impression that, back in 1995, people didn't want a radically different Bond so in a sense he was right for the time.

    The biggest irony about Brosnan is that, personality wise, he probably has the most in common with Fleming's character. He IS cocky, he IS arrogant sometimes. Also, his backstory bar the Navy stuff, is not too disimilar to Bond's
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    when i first saw Die Another Day in cinemas i was disapointed-it had some good moments but ultimately it didnt survive

    then a couple of months ago i rewatched it and suprisingly i actually had a great time...it is silly but then agian the film was designed to be fun and awesome as Bond shoud be...look at the last two bond films- utterly serious and no fun (alright CR had its moments and it was brilliant) but where is the joy and fun and the cheese...

    Bond films are meant to be a form of escapism- look at Goldfinger or Octopussy
    imagine if they were done now they wouldnt be the epics they are.. its like the new goldeneye game it sucks compared to the original film- they made the charater that sean bean played into a golf shirt wearing villian who is obsessed with money compared to the bad ass sean bean who actually had sympathy..

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Exactly @002, DAD is Bond at his finest. Pure fun and entertainment, lots of humour, camp and cheese... everything that Bond should be.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,678
    Ooh, I like cheese! Count me in!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    There's stinky cheese:
    "I'm Mr Kil
    There's a name to die for" 8-X

    And there's sweet smelling cheese:
    "Three more ticks and Mr Goldfinger would have hit the jackpot" :)>-
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,678
    BAIN123 wrote:
    There's stinky cheese:
    "I'm Mr Kil
    There's a name to die for" 8-X

    Yes- that IMO, was one of- if not the worst line in DAD. As soon as Bond makes his quip, it just stops right there, awkwardly. It's so obvious Mr. Kil got his name due to someone wanting Bond to follow with that line.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    QBranch wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    There's stinky cheese:
    "I'm Mr Kil
    There's a name to die for" 8-X

    Yes- that IMO, was one of- if not the worst line in DAD. As soon as Bond makes his quip, it just stops right there, awkardly. It's so obvious Mr. Kil got his name due to someone wanting Bond to follow with that line.

    Yep, talk about laziness. I'm not sure even Roger Moore could have made that line sound good.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,678
    And the way Kil delivers it, too. I'm Mr. Kil. WTF? He wouldn't say it like that, or say it, period. He totally sets him up for it. Kil might as well ask Bond what his name is, or how he likes his Martini. I can overlook most of the poor dialogue, but that is a line not to die for.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html
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