Die Another Day - will it age gracefully?

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Comments

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Yes that line is very cheesy... but that's the beauty of the Bond films that I am so fond of !!
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html

    That whole series is hilarious. I'm looking forward to the review of Craig's films next year.
    Yes that line is very cheesy... but that's the beauty of the Bond films that I am so fond of !!

    Really? You honestly see those awful lines as one of the best parts of the series? Thankfully they're not in most of the films but still, I can't believe anyone finds those lines, something anyone could right, good.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    I didn't say the 'Mr Kil' lines was the best line in the entire series... I just meant that I love the camp in Bond films.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think that montage in Haphazard's review highlights the laziness that occured in Brosnan's run. Shame because I liked him as 007.
  • Watched DAD recently.

    Only the CGI has really aged.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    I didn't say the 'Mr Kil' lines was the best line in the entire series... I just meant that I love the camp in Bond films.

    I never said you did, just that you think a lot of the 'bad line' element. As for the camp in Bond, if done right at the correct time it can work, now just isn't that time.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2011 Posts: 14,680
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html

    What was that, Tamahori?- future action scenes could be 50% CGI? Get out of here! Go! Now! Nice review, by the way. I look forward to hearing some of that classic dialogue in SF.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think that montage in Haphazard's review highlights the laziness that occured in Brosnan's run. Shame because I liked him as 007.

    Yes, Brosnan was the Bond I grew up with, so I find it hard to say bad things about him. I blame the writers.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    QBranch wrote:
    Yes, Brosnan was the Bond I grew up with, so I can't say bad things about him. I blame the writers.

    Same here, I don't like being too critical of him but he wasn't always the greatest of actors either. As Haphazard says though "as Brosnan got better the films he was in just got worse and worse". So yeah, a combination of lazy writing and directing didn't help.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,537
    Since a couple of months a go i move the movie from the 16th to the 18th place. What made rank it lower then Yolt and Dr No. In specialy because it don't survive time, i haven't watch it so much and i whant give Yolt more credits.

    At this moment it is only rankt higher then GF, Moonraker, CR and Thunderball.

    Mabey some day i going to be re-rank again.

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited December 2011 Posts: 4,399
    when Bond films are at their best for me, its when they are suspenseful thrillers - almost to the tune of a Hitchcock film, but with some wit and class thrown into the mix.....

    .... it's no secret that I feel From Russia With Love is the best Bond movie to date, and my personal favorite.. to me, thats the epitome of what a Bond film should strive to be, every time out of the gate..

    when the over the top camp goes to far - i really feel like a part of who Bond is supposed to be gets lost in the mix... not saying those films aren't and can't be fun - but i feel like it comes at a sacrifice of the character itself.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html

    The reviewer gets DAD right in the first sentence.

    "it seems more important to the producers to celebrate the anniversaries then come up with a decent film.."

    Spot on.

  • Thr first two thirds of the movie will age well. The final third, not at all.
    (could be said of all Brosnan 007 films by the way: their endings - Cuba, Vietnam, Submarine, CGI - were lousy.) ;)
  • Posts: 297
    actonsteve wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html

    The reviewer gets DAD right in the first sentence.

    "it seems more important to the producers to celebrate the anniversaries then come up with a decent film.."

    Spot on.

    I just wonder there, could DAD have been a great film if it hadn't been for the anniversary? W/o all that in-joke trash, tribute and fawning to its own heritage?




  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    As I said I do think there is some pretty decent stuff under all the crap. Always liked the scene of a tired Commander Bond confronting M in a cool abandoned underground station

    The little touches I often found fun in DAD.

    -Bond squeezing Zao's drip ("goood
  • Posts: 1,407
    I recently watched DAD for the first time in a while. While I still think it is Brosnan's worst film, he gives a great performance. The first half of the film (before Iceland) is great. I love the sword fight.

    But after Iceland, things just start to get weird. The thing about this film for me is that I enjoy it while watching it, then when it is over, I think of all the flaws about it. It's a good "popcorn" Bond film like MR or YOLT.

    It's ok though I watched CR after that so I was fine :)
  • DAD v DAF - is the question. DAF is naff but it has charm and has aged well. DAD first 40 mins awesome then jinx and ice turn up yuk. So to answer you question - no.

    And what was truly unforgivable, Frost was so underused and had the potential to be the best baddie vamp ever.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 12,837
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I get the impression that, back in 1995, people didn't want a radically different Bond so in a sense he was right for the time.

    The biggest irony about Brosnan is that, personality wise, he probably has the most in common with Fleming's character. He IS cocky, he IS arrogant sometimes. Also, his backstory bar the Navy stuff, is not too disimilar to Bond's

    I think brosnan is closer to flemming than craig. I love craig as bond, but flemmings bond wouldn't do half the stuff craig did. Dalton is still closest to flemming though.

    As for DAD, yeah I think in afew years people will be defending it and praising it on sites like these. To me, TWINE is brosnans best outing, and goldenye is pretty good too. DAD has its moments, the PTS is good, I love the bit with the wheelchair when bond knocks out the guy, the idea of bond being captured is good, miranda frost is a great villianess, but over the top CGI and crappy theme spoils it for me, so its 22 on my ranking.

    But lets face it, in the future there will probably be a bond film worse than DAD, for all we know skyfall could be worse (good director and good cast could still mean bad film), we just have to wait and see.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    I think brosnan is closer to flemming than craig.

    Agreed. Brosnan's DAD performance is closer to Fleming than Craig. Moore in TMWTGG is also closer to Fleming than Craig.
  • Posts: 297

    I love craig as bond, but flemmings bond wouldn't do half the stuff craig did.

    Fleming's Bond would not have done half the stuff he was shown doing on the screen since TMWTGG. The movies have become ever more focused on the action and stunt stuff. In the book LALD Bond thinks he and Solitaire are reasonably safe in their train compartment, only a daring circus artist would try and climb the roof and insert some kind of gas or weapon. Would that be filmed today we'd likely get that attack via roof, Bond would defend it and climb up ther himself and ther'd be a fight right on top of the compartment, with Solitaire trying to watch it and help Bond out. Such is the world of movie Bond. The books are much more low key affairs, the closest they come to the films is Bond's escape from Piz Gloria and in YOLT by the helium balloon across the sea.

    Btw, Fleming can do with a single 'm', wasn't that generous a chap with those IIRC.



    Dalton is still closest to flemming though.

    In some ways, yes indeed. Then again in some ways he wasn't. Dalton would have been great for OHMSS and YOLT and TMWTGG. But I missed the lighter tone he would need for GF, TB, LALD and the odd scenes of other books.

  • Posts: 1,497
    Die Another Day - Will it age gracefully?

    Judging by a number of comments so far, I'd say yes...surprisingly. Just a year ago when I joined this site, DAD was almost universally panned as the black sheep of the Bond series from what I could tell. It seemed like there was nothing this film could do right. Then people started to compliment Brosnan's performance. Now one member is calling it one of the best of the series! @-) Never thought I would see the day...

    The style and tone of the Bond series seems to come and go in cycles. The same could be said for cinema as a whole. It's quite possible that audiences will eventually tire of the gritty, realistic, down to earth style of film-making and long for more escapist, pulp entertainment. This could mean a revival of appreciation for DAD...The problem it faces now, is that the beloved CR is considered the answer to DAD; it's the anti-DAD--the Bond series getting back to it's senses. So at the current moment it's not viewed positively (relatively speaking)....but I sense that maybe slowly changing.
    TheBaldEgo wrote:
    Only the CGI has really aged.

    I wonder if 20 years from now, new audiences will look back at the early days of CG with a bit of nostalgia? I mean there's a bit of campy charm in the rear projection shots of the Bond in a car in DN or GF, or in the sped-up shots of the speedboat in TB, or the space shuttle effects in YOLT or MR.

  • Brosnan's Die Another Day is the equivalent to Moore's Moonraker in the simplest terms

    OK, it was the 40th anniversary, a significant milestone for the franchise, but I think someone got a bit carried away during production, Brosnan, like Moore before him, went out with a whimper and both their Bond swansongs will always be an attraction to ridicule and overall condemnation

    It's a shame really, because if they had thrown by the wayside, Madonna, Berry, the asinine Invisible Car idea, surfing waves and Brosnan been a few years younger it may well have worked, and been one of the better Bonds, but for all it's negatives, it weighs it down considerably and the end product is just an embarrassment to the series


  • edited December 2011 Posts: 2,107
    I don't know. It's no Moonraker that much I can say.
    But, even though I disliked the film when it came out, I've now grown to like it. It's big, partially cheesy over the top big four-o adventure. It's still better than the so called Bond killers "xXx" and "xXx-2".

    edit: I've grown to like it after Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. Not because I hate Craig's films (I love them both and think Craig is an excellent Bond). But Die Another Day, between both TWINE (call it melodramatic or what ever) and the more hard edged Craig movies, Die Another Day has it's place as this fun, "throw in all your gizmos, lasers etc" fun fest. I don't even mind the Iceland surfing scene.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Die Another Day - Will it age gracefully?

    Judging by a number of comments so far, I'd say yes...surprisingly. Just a year ago when I joined this site, DAD was almost universally panned as the black sheep of the Bond series from what I could tell. It seemed like there was nothing this film could do right. Then people started to compliment Brosnan's performance. Now one member is calling it one of the best of the series! @-) Never thought I would see the day...

    but do you think this is honest opinion?... or people who are jumping on a bandwagon?

  • Posts: 1,497
    HASEROT wrote:
    but do you think this is honest opinion?... or people who are jumping on a bandwagon?

    Could be...but hating on DAD could also be seen as bandwagoning too, and a few brave souls have come out of the woodwork to defend it. I think in time, people maybe are seeing some positive qualities in context that might have been overlooked before.

    I think the member who called it one of the better ones of the series has a very unique opinion, that's for sure! :-)
  • Posts: 562
    DAD was a great movie until Bond met Jinx. It was all down-hill from there.
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 1,310
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Die Another Day - Will it age gracefully?

    Judging by a number of comments so far, I'd say yes...surprisingly. Just a year ago when I joined this site, DAD was almost universally panned as the black sheep of the Bond series from what I could tell. It seemed like there was nothing this film could do right. Then people started to compliment Brosnan's performance. Now one member is calling it one of the best of the series! @-) Never thought I would see the day...

    The style and tone of the Bond series seems to come and go in cycles. The same could be said for cinema as a whole. It's quite possible that audiences will eventually tire of the gritty, realistic, down to earth style of film-making and long for more escapist, pulp entertainment. This could mean a revival of appreciation for DAD...The problem it faces now, is that the beloved CR is considered the answer to DAD; it's the anti-DAD--the Bond series getting back to it's senses. So at the current moment it's not viewed positively (relatively speaking)....but I sense that maybe slowly changing.
    TheBaldEgo wrote:
    Only the CGI has really aged.

    I wonder if 20 years from now, new audiences will look back at the early days of CG with a bit of nostalgia? I mean there's a bit of campy charm in the rear projection shots of the Bond in a car in DN or GF, or in the sped-up shots of the speedboat in TB, or the space shuttle effects in YOLT or MR.
    The thing with the special effects is that Die Another Day's CGI looked horrible the day it came out. Back in 1967, YOLT's space shuttle effects were cutting edge (and the pre-titles space sequence holds up pretty well). Same goes for Moonraker's ending space scene; for 1979 that looked very impressive.

    Die Another Day's windsurfing always looked horrible. It was never cutting edge, it was always garbage.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html
    I love HaphazardStuff. Great videos and the man knows his Bond stuff. I love to hear him talk about Jinx. HILARIOUS!
    =))
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    SJK91 wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Die Another Day - Will it age gracefully?

    Judging by a number of comments so far, I'd say yes...surprisingly. Just a year ago when I joined this site, DAD was almost universally panned as the black sheep of the Bond series from what I could tell. It seemed like there was nothing this film could do right. Then people started to compliment Brosnan's performance. Now one member is calling it one of the best of the series! @-) Never thought I would see the day...

    The style and tone of the Bond series seems to come and go in cycles. The same could be said for cinema as a whole. It's quite possible that audiences will eventually tire of the gritty, realistic, down to earth style of film-making and long for more escapist, pulp entertainment. This could mean a revival of appreciation for DAD...The problem it faces now, is that the beloved CR is considered the answer to DAD; it's the anti-DAD--the Bond series getting back to it's senses. So at the current moment it's not viewed positively (relatively speaking)....but I sense that maybe slowly changing.
    TheBaldEgo wrote:
    Only the CGI has really aged.

    I wonder if 20 years from now, new audiences will look back at the early days of CG with a bit of nostalgia? I mean there's a bit of campy charm in the rear projection shots of the Bond in a car in DN or GF, or in the sped-up shots of the speedboat in TB, or the space shuttle effects in YOLT or MR.
    The thing with the special effects is that Die Another Day's CGI looked horrible the day it came out. Back in 1967, YOLT's space shuttle effects were cutting edge (and the pre-titles space sequence holds up pretty well). Same goes for Moonraker's ending space scene; for 1979 that looked very impressive.

    Die Another Day's windsurfing always looked horrible. It was never cutting edge, it was always garbage.

    Exactly. I remember sitting in the cinema in 2002 at the age of 17 thinking "this plane stuff looks silly". What suprises me is that none of the filmakers questioned it. Surely one would have said: "that looks fake".
    JBFan626 wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    but do you think this is honest opinion?... or people who are jumping on a bandwagon?

    Could be...but hating on DAD could also be seen as bandwagoning too, and a few brave souls have come out of the woodwork to defend it. I think in time, people maybe are seeing some positive qualities in context that might have been overlooked before.

    I think the member who called it one of the better ones of the series has a very unique opinion, that's for sure! :-)

    All Bond movies have SOME good qualities about them - DAD is no exception.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Yeah, no "hello" or anything before hand.
    Have a look at this, its a review of DAD. The montage starting at 22.35 is hilarious

    http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html
    I love HaphazardStuff. Great videos and the man knows his Bond stuff. I love to hear him talk about Jinx. HILARIOUS!
    =))

    made it through Part 1 of his review of DAD... and i gotta say - he's spot on on just about everything.... especially how they had the great chance to explore something more psychological with Bond, with 14 months of being tortured, and then subsequently burned by Mi6 and now forced to go rogue..... but nope, they toss that out the window fairly quickly and it's business as usual.

    bits so far that i liked the most:

    - hiding behind an invisible car (lolz)
    - everything with Jinx
    - and Jiffy Pop satellite (because when i first saw it in theaters, thats exactly what i thought as well)
  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Theres a brilliant sequence in part 2 where he imagines how the audience at the premier react.

    Also you'll never watch Chitty Chitty Bang Bang in quite the same way again.
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