NO TIME TO DIE - Questions Thread

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    It's certainly easy to forgive or overlook faults entirely when you love a film like that. Me, I'm on the opposite side, so all the flaws and cracks and issues stand out even more starkly.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2022 Posts: 7,546
    matt_u wrote: »
    That’s cool! But I remember you have a soft spot for SP. We are not that much unfortunately, at least inhere… XD

    But it's still in your top 10?
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's certainly easy to forgive or overlook faults entirely when you love a film like that. Me, I'm on the opposite side, so all the flaws and cracks and issues stand out even more starkly.

    It's tough because I view Spectre as one big missed opportunity, with elements in the film that I think are really great.

    It's like a discussion I had on here somewhere; a lot of the elements of a great Spectre are already in the film, but it's missing a strong narrative through-line to connect it all in a great way.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,343
    matt_u wrote: »
    That’s cool! But I remember you have a soft spot for SP. We are not that much unfortunately, at least inhere… XD

    But it's still in your top 10?

    Yes at #7. I mostly enjoy all Bond movies and I have a great appreciation for Dalton but the Craig era is another level for me.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    Not sure if this question has already been asked, but:
    If Bond was covered in Spectre-killing nanobots in Cuba, and Primo was working for Spectre at the time, how come Primo doesn't just die as soon as he comes into contact with Bond (or Madeleine or Mathilde, who have touched Bond)?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,556
    I think it was suggested earlier that only SPECTRE higher-ups were targeted, and not their bodyguards. Remember not everyone died at the party - several people ran off.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,344
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,556
    Only the chap in the middle holding the eye died, or he at least died first. He dropped the eye on the ground.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    mtm wrote: »
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)

    That's what my girlfriend said after seeing the film: She was waiting for Madeleine to drop dead any moment, because they hammer home the "daughter of Spectre" thing early on and that Heracles 2.0 goes along family lines. But I guess when Blofeld signs a form 25B to have thallium put in an employee's phone, that automatically triggers them to be taken out of the DNA database.

    I'm pretty sure the guys carrying the eye die. From recollection, they drop the eye and then Primo picks it up and pops it in.
    I can understand the goons Bond and Paloma fight not being in the database. I've posted that before, but imagine the hassle of getting DNA samples from every hourly, local goon they hire for one evening and inputting that into the database. Plus, whereever Valdo got that data from, it's at the very least a few days old and probably way older.
    But Primo not being in just doesn't really work. He is Blofeld's connection to the world. He was tasked with getting Bond's DNA and seems to have lead the Matera operation five years earlier as well as the Heracles heist in London. He should at least be on the level of the guys carrying the eye around the party, as you say.
    Best I can do is that Safin had already planned on poaching him for his team and had Valdo take him off the list, but that is just me making stuff up.

    Another question I just had: Did Valdo really just have the SPECTRE DNA (and all of those other DNA lists) on his work computer in the C-minus-Two lab? Wouldn't it have made much more sense for that to be MI6 data that he stole or part of the Heracles package or whatever? Q and Moneypenny are so suprised by the data being there, but for Heracles to work, you absolutely need that kind of data, don't you? So Safin gave that to Valdo and he just stored it on his government-provided work computer?!
  • Posts: 1,075
    I thought it a bit strange that none of the Spectre agents recognised Bond. He was the bloke that put their leader in the the clink, after all.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,556
    Several of them were eyeballing Bond as he walked through the room, including MGW's character and the guy who looked like Orson Welles. The latter clearly recognized him.
  • Posts: 1,075
    I took it that they simply didn't recognise him. More 'who is that?' than 'that's James Bond!'
    Not that it was a problem with the scene, I liked it. One of the better parts of NTTD for me.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,129
    I think maybe you should watch NTTD again @ColonelAdamski ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,344
    mtm wrote: »
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)

    That's what my girlfriend said after seeing the film: She was waiting for Madeleine to drop dead any moment, because they hammer home the "daughter of Spectre" thing early on and that Heracles 2.0 goes along family lines. But I guess when Blofeld signs a form 25B to have thallium put in an employee's phone, that automatically triggers them to be taken out of the DNA database.

    I'm pretty sure the guys carrying the eye die. From recollection, they drop the eye and then Primo picks it up and pops it in.
    I can understand the goons Bond and Paloma fight not being in the database. I've posted that before, but imagine the hassle of getting DNA samples from every hourly, local goon they hire for one evening and inputting that into the database. Plus, whereever Valdo got that data from, it's at the very least a few days old and probably way older.
    But Primo not being in just doesn't really work. He is Blofeld's connection to the world. He was tasked with getting Bond's DNA and seems to have lead the Matera operation five years earlier as well as the Heracles heist in London. He should at least be on the level of the guys carrying the eye around the party, as you say.
    Best I can do is that Safin had already planned on poaching him for his team and had Valdo take him off the list, but that is just me making stuff up.

    Yeah Primo's a bit too important not to be on the list, especially if the cushion-holders are: they seem to be just above the level of waiters. He's even been given a bionic eye- they can't be cheap! I understand him not getting killed at the party because I think he's sort of hovering out of the way of the dust, but Madeline should have killed him really. Maybe they made sure he has gloves on all the time or something.
    I still think it's unnecessarily confusing to have Primo swap sides, especially when the film doesn't even really mention it.

    The whole party double plan is quite mind-breaking: Blofeld wants Bond there to kill him, but the agent who gets Bond to go is Ash, but he's actually working for Safin. So what was Blofeld's plan for getting Bond there?

    Another totally random question: how does Bond know the fairy dust is called Heracles when he arrives in London?

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 2022 Posts: 6,277
    Doesn't Ash say to Valdo: "I'm with Safin now"? I took that to mean that Ash, on Blofeld's behalf, was pushing Felix to persuade Bond to get to Cuba. And then Ash switched sides.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited February 2022 Posts: 1,351
    echo wrote: »
    Doesn't Ash say to Valdo: "I'm with Safin now"? I took that to mean that Ash, on Blofeld's behalf, was pushing Felix to persuade Bond to get to Cuba. And then Ash switched sides.

    I think he just says "I'm with Safin." as in "we're on the same side", but I could be wrong.
    mtm wrote: »
    The whole party double plan is quite mind-breaking: Blofeld wants Bond there to kill him, but the agent who gets Bond to go is Ash, but he's actually working for Safin. So what was Blofeld's plan for getting Bond there?

    My headcanon for the party and how Blofeld wanted to get Bond there is that he didn't. The original plan was for the party to just go ahead and then the Spectre members would infect themselves with the Heracles agent targeted at Bond in a kind of f***ed-up, ritualistic bunga-bunga party with the nanobot-virus raining down on them and kinky-Blofeld watching on and then they'd go and try to infect him or just wait until he gets it from a longer chain. Primo knows where he lives and follows him around, so in that version, Blofeld would have sat in his little cell and either watched Bond until he suddenly dropped or had Primo walk up to him, say some cool one-liner, smack him across the face and watch him die at his/Primo's feet.
    And then all the other stuff happens and Bond actually shows up to the party and they change the plan to have Blofeld talk directly to Bond, which is even better for him, but sadly it all goes wrong. But we all cry on our birthday.
    mtm wrote: »
    Another totally random question: how does Bond know the fairy dust is called Heracles when he arrives in London?

    Maybe there's a snazzy logo on the case? If you go to the trouble of having that custom made, you might as well shell out for style.

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,970
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)

    That's what my girlfriend said after seeing the film: She was waiting for Madeleine to drop dead any moment, because they hammer home the "daughter of Spectre" thing early on and that Heracles 2.0 goes along family lines. But I guess when Blofeld signs a form 25B to have thallium put in an employee's phone, that automatically triggers them to be taken out of the DNA database.

    I'm pretty sure the guys carrying the eye die. From recollection, they drop the eye and then Primo picks it up and pops it in.
    I can understand the goons Bond and Paloma fight not being in the database. I've posted that before, but imagine the hassle of getting DNA samples from every hourly, local goon they hire for one evening and inputting that into the database. Plus, whereever Valdo got that data from, it's at the very least a few days old and probably way older.
    But Primo not being in just doesn't really work. He is Blofeld's connection to the world. He was tasked with getting Bond's DNA and seems to have lead the Matera operation five years earlier as well as the Heracles heist in London. He should at least be on the level of the guys carrying the eye around the party, as you say.
    Best I can do is that Safin had already planned on poaching him for his team and had Valdo take him off the list, but that is just me making stuff up.
    Another totally random question: how does Bond know the fairy dust is called Heracles when he arrives in London?
    I can't remember if there's a scene where he learns it, but I guess Valdo could've told him between leaving Paloma and getting to the boat.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)

    That's what my girlfriend said after seeing the film: She was waiting for Madeleine to drop dead any moment, because they hammer home the "daughter of Spectre" thing early on and that Heracles 2.0 goes along family lines. But I guess when Blofeld signs a form 25B to have thallium put in an employee's phone, that automatically triggers them to be taken out of the DNA database.

    I'm pretty sure the guys carrying the eye die. From recollection, they drop the eye and then Primo picks it up and pops it in.
    I can understand the goons Bond and Paloma fight not being in the database. I've posted that before, but imagine the hassle of getting DNA samples from every hourly, local goon they hire for one evening and inputting that into the database. Plus, whereever Valdo got that data from, it's at the very least a few days old and probably way older.
    But Primo not being in just doesn't really work. He is Blofeld's connection to the world. He was tasked with getting Bond's DNA and seems to have lead the Matera operation five years earlier as well as the Heracles heist in London. He should at least be on the level of the guys carrying the eye around the party, as you say.
    Best I can do is that Safin had already planned on poaching him for his team and had Valdo take him off the list, but that is just me making stuff up.
    Another totally random question: how does Bond know the fairy dust is called Heracles when he arrives in London?
    I can't remember if there's a scene where he learns it, but I guess Valdo could've told him between leaving Paloma and getting to the boat.

    But then he probably wouldn't storm onto the boat and ask him "What is this?", right?
    It makes little sense that they wouldn't talk while running to the harbour or on the plane, but that scene on the trawler is written as if they hadn't exchanged a single word.

    Well ... maybe Bond wanted to be careful that someone might overhear while they where in the back alleys and it's Nomi's plane, so who knows what kind of listening devices are in there (and it's probably quite loud in there). But that brings us back to @mtm's original question...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,344
    echo wrote: »
    Doesn't Ash say to Valdo: "I'm with Safin now"? I took that to mean that Ash, on Blofeld's behalf, was pushing Felix to persuade Bond to get to Cuba. And then Ash switched sides.

    I think he just says "I'm with Safin." as in "we're on the same side", but I could be wrong.
    mtm wrote: »
    The whole party double plan is quite mind-breaking: Blofeld wants Bond there to kill him, but the agent who gets Bond to go is Ash, but he's actually working for Safin. So what was Blofeld's plan for getting Bond there?

    My headcanon for the party and how Blofeld wanted to get Bond there is that he didn't. The original plan was for the party to just go ahead and then the Spectre members would infect themselves with the Heracles agent targeted at Bond in a kind of f***ed-up, ritualistic bunga-bunga party with the nanobot-virus raining down on them and kinky-Blofeld watching on and then they'd go and try to infect him or just wait until he gets it from a longer chain. Primo knows where he lives and follows him around, so in that version, Blofeld would have sat in his little cell and either watched Bond until he suddenly dropped or had Primo walk up to him, say some cool one-liner, smack him across the face and watch him die at his/Primo's feet.
    And then all the other stuff happens and Bond actually shows up to the party and they change the plan to have Blofeld talk directly to Bond, which is even better for him, but sadly it all goes wrong. But we all cry on our birthday.

    Yeah okay, that's quite fun. A bit of an anticlimax at the party though I guess! :D
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)

    That's what my girlfriend said after seeing the film: She was waiting for Madeleine to drop dead any moment, because they hammer home the "daughter of Spectre" thing early on and that Heracles 2.0 goes along family lines. But I guess when Blofeld signs a form 25B to have thallium put in an employee's phone, that automatically triggers them to be taken out of the DNA database.

    I'm pretty sure the guys carrying the eye die. From recollection, they drop the eye and then Primo picks it up and pops it in.
    I can understand the goons Bond and Paloma fight not being in the database. I've posted that before, but imagine the hassle of getting DNA samples from every hourly, local goon they hire for one evening and inputting that into the database. Plus, whereever Valdo got that data from, it's at the very least a few days old and probably way older.
    But Primo not being in just doesn't really work. He is Blofeld's connection to the world. He was tasked with getting Bond's DNA and seems to have lead the Matera operation five years earlier as well as the Heracles heist in London. He should at least be on the level of the guys carrying the eye around the party, as you say.
    Best I can do is that Safin had already planned on poaching him for his team and had Valdo take him off the list, but that is just me making stuff up.
    Another totally random question: how does Bond know the fairy dust is called Heracles when he arrives in London?
    I can't remember if there's a scene where he learns it, but I guess Valdo could've told him between leaving Paloma and getting to the boat.

    Yeah that'll have to be it I guess. It is a bit of an error I think.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Denbigh wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Did the chaps holding the eye on the cushion die? They can’t have been high up.
    I guess we have to hope Mr White wasn’t on file any more either then! :)

    That's what my girlfriend said after seeing the film: She was waiting for Madeleine to drop dead any moment, because they hammer home the "daughter of Spectre" thing early on and that Heracles 2.0 goes along family lines. But I guess when Blofeld signs a form 25B to have thallium put in an employee's phone, that automatically triggers them to be taken out of the DNA database.

    I'm pretty sure the guys carrying the eye die. From recollection, they drop the eye and then Primo picks it up and pops it in.
    I can understand the goons Bond and Paloma fight not being in the database. I've posted that before, but imagine the hassle of getting DNA samples from every hourly, local goon they hire for one evening and inputting that into the database. Plus, whereever Valdo got that data from, it's at the very least a few days old and probably way older.
    But Primo not being in just doesn't really work. He is Blofeld's connection to the world. He was tasked with getting Bond's DNA and seems to have lead the Matera operation five years earlier as well as the Heracles heist in London. He should at least be on the level of the guys carrying the eye around the party, as you say.
    Best I can do is that Safin had already planned on poaching him for his team and had Valdo take him off the list, but that is just me making stuff up.
    Another totally random question: how does Bond know the fairy dust is called Heracles when he arrives in London?
    I can't remember if there's a scene where he learns it, but I guess Valdo could've told him between leaving Paloma and getting to the boat.

    But then he probably wouldn't storm onto the boat and ask him "What is this?", right?
    It makes little sense that they wouldn't talk while running to the harbour or on the plane, but that scene on the trawler is written as if they hadn't exchanged a single word.

    Well ... maybe Bond wanted to be careful that someone might overhear while they where in the back alleys and it's Nomi's plane, so who knows what kind of listening devices are in there (and it's probably quite loud in there). But that brings us back to @mtm's original question...
    True to be honest it's been a while since I've seen it. Also, I think that part was always the weakest for me. That cut between Cuba and London. I remember it feeling slightly jarring the second time I saw the film.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,556
    Moneypenny knew it was called 'Heracles'. She would've filled Bond in before seeing M.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,970
    Ok going through it that part of the film quickly, the way it plays out I think makes it seem like Bond probably just did his own digging? Maybe he broke into Mallory's flat. Cause he knows more than just the name.

    The question is also did Bond tell MI6 he was coming before he turned up?
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Ok going through it that part of the film quickly, the way it plays out I think makes it seem like Bond probably just did his own digging? Maybe he broke into Mallory's flat. Cause he knows more than just the name.

    The question is also did Bond tell MI6 he was coming before he turned up?

    Him breaking into M's quarters again would have been pretty hilarious. Them walking through MI6 and all the analysts being confused by the Double-007 and all of the banter between Moneypenny, Nomi and Bond is pretty good as is him at the security desk (that being the only time he says "Bond. James Bond" didn't get a lot of discussion. Probably overshadowed by Madeleine at the end...) and I am happy there is a "Bond in M's office"-scene, but for Craig it's almost more traditional to have the "briefing" at M's place after he broke in. Could have had some more digs about Mallory not being of Mansfield's calibre..
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,344
    QBranch wrote: »
    Moneypenny knew it was called 'Heracles'. She would've filled Bond in before seeing M.

    That would seem quite a big breaking of state secrets at that point though- Bond doesn't work for MI6. And I think we see them meet for the first time and his entire journey to M's office, don't we?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Bond was always good at getting into MI6's system.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    Primo's been following Bond? I thought Primo and Nomi had both been trailing Felix and Leiter had unwittingly led them to Bond?
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    I honestly have no clue how Primo ended up in Jamaica.
    Why would he be tailing Leiter? To find Bond?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,970
    Why would he be tailing Leiter? To find Bond?
    I mean if Felix and Nomi knew where he was, it must've been pretty easy to find him. And him following Felix makes sense, because Felix would've "broken in" and left the cigar ash, for Primo to probably break in and steal the toothbrush later when Bond leaves, to then follow him to the club to maybe make sure he was going to attend in Cuba.

    The other theory could be that Nomi follows Felix and Primo follows Nomi, because Blofeld would know who Nomi is.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,343
    What's the point of uploading the DNA of a man that died 5 years prior to the party?

    Anyway none of the henchmen died by Heracles at the party.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2022 Posts: 7,546
    I honestly have no clue how Primo ended up in Jamaica.
    Why would he be tailing Leiter? To find Bond?

    My thought was both Nomi and Primo find Bond by tailing Leiter. He needs to be in Jamaica to get Bond's DNA, which he does, via his toothbrush, which we see later.

    @matt_u which man who died 5 years prior are you referring to?

    Re: Bond knowing what Heracles is; he clearly knew about this project while he was still with MI6 years prior, there are many lines of exposition in the film about this. "You should have shut it down", "Valdo's still on the books", etc.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,147
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The other theory could be that Nomi follows Felix and Primo follows Nomi.

    Ah, now I see!
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