Easter Eggs, Symbolism & Call Backs (Major Spoilers)

Birdleson

I'm not going back and reading all seven pages, but I haven't heard or read anyone else bring up a reference that hit me as obvious and intentional from my first viewing. As we focus on Madeline walking through the train as she tracks Bond, it is the reverse point of view of that of Grant tracking Bond from the Orient Express in FRWL. I'm pretty sure that it had to be an intentional reference.

Venutius

Yes, a few of us went firtling into it and found that the procession was related to a saint associated with orphans and Judgement Day and Vesper's tomb has a Latin inscription on it that means 'remember you will die' - a phrase that accompanied memento mori images after the medieval Black Death, a plague that killed millions.

RichardTheBruce

I enjoyed those connections, @Venutius, from Page 5.

Feyador wrote: »

The religious procession in Matera is for Saint Vincenzo Ferrer. "S. Vincenzo Ferrer," is on the banner the crowd is holding. When I saw the name of "Vincenzo" I immediately thought of Teresa di Vincenzo, aka Tracy.

Whether this is intended to invoke her name or not, I don't know ... but after a cursory search, the procession doesn't appear to be one native to Matera (though I wouldn't rule it out). The saint is better known as St. Vincent Ferrer, and is more associated with Spain than Italy.

Also, his feast day is April 5th, perhaps coincidentally the day on which Albert R. Broccoli was born. Among the many things that Ferrer is associated with are orphanages and Judgement Day.

ColonelAdamski wrote: »

Here you go. My copy of the movie isn't high-def, but you can still see the sign.

M_Balje

I must think about The World Is Not Enough where Elektra visits a rabijn/priest at culture event in Kazakhstan. Link with Italy be is that both have same colors in there vlag, that there also share with Mexico (Spectre).



I can't remember on this moment or there be Italian flag in NTTD, i have seen a Japanese flag, British one and flag from Cuba.

CommanderRoss

Some very interesting references made. I only recognised the sailing boat Bond uses in Jamaica as beeing the same he used in Venice with Vesper. So far for letting her go...

M_Balje

Other one: Bond, Leiter and Ash at table is sort of NTTD scene of Dr No, CR and Skyfall i refer earlier too. CR one with a twist: 3 people sitting at table who are death now, like statues in CR where Bond sitting close to them.

I am not 100% sjure NTTD is realy end of the story and there wil not contuned with next actor till we get next actor.

Venutius

CommanderRoss wrote: »

Some very interesting references made. I only recognised the sailing boat Bond uses in Jamaica as beeing the same he used in Venice with Vesper. So far for letting her go...

He's wearing the same grey t-shirt that he wore when they sailed into Venice in CR too - that's why it's so tatty in NTTD: it's 15 years old! :D

ImpertinentGoon

CommanderRoss wrote: »

Some very interesting references made. I only recognised the sailing boat Bond uses in Jamaica as beeing the same he used in Venice with Vesper. So far for letting her go...

Not to be too much of a pedant, but it's not the same boat. They are both Spirit yachts, but the one in CR is a Spirit 54

while in NTTD it's a Spirit 46.


They are of course similar boats, but clearly not the same, when you look at them side-by-side.

This is one of those points where you have to wonder, whether we can put any meaning inside the world into the production team continuing to work with the same product partners throughout the films and thereby creating connections.
It's a bit like the wine in Q's apartment being the same wine (different vintage) that Bond and Vesper had when they first met in the train. Those bottles are there, because the producer is a friend of Michael G. Wilson's, but wouldn't Bond also make a connection between the two scenes or is that again just me being way too pedantic and he wouldn't think of it 15 years later?

Venutius

Are more casual viewers than us meant to think it's the same yacht, though?

ImpertinentGoon

Venutius wrote: »

Are more casual viewers than us meant to think it's the same yacht, though?

Do more casual viewers than us remember there was a yacht for about 3 minutes in a film 15 years ago?

To be less catty: I think the boats are too dissimilar for that to have been the intention.
Even when they couldn't get the 54 again, they could have done a much better job at disguising a boat as the one from CR and they didn't.

I also think I recall somebody saying on here somewhere that some Making of material mentions the NTTD yacht is named "Happenstance", while the CR yacht was the "Soufrière".

Feyador

Or perhaps that the NTTD yacht evokes memories of the one in CR is all that is required from those of us paying attention to such things (at least at something less than the micro level) ....

CommanderRoss

ImpertinentGoon wrote: »

CommanderRoss wrote: »

Some very interesting references made. I only recognised the sailing boat Bond uses in Jamaica as beeing the same he used in Venice with Vesper. So far for letting her go...

Not to be too much of a pedant, but it's not the same boat. They are both Spirit yachts, but the one in CR is a Spirit 54

while in NTTD it's a Spirit 46.


They are of course similar boats, but clearly not the same, when you look at them side-by-side.

This is one of those points where you have to wonder, whether we can put any meaning inside the world into the production team continuing to work with the same product partners throughout the films and thereby creating connections.
It's a bit like the wine in Q's apartment being the same wine (different vintage) that Bond and Vesper had when they first met in the train. Those bottles are there, because the producer is a friend of Michael G. Wilson's, but wouldn't Bond also make a connection between the two scenes or is that again just me being way too pedantic and he wouldn't think of it 15 years later?

Oh wow, thanks for setting me straight, I'd have sworn it was the same one, but now I clearly see it isn't. Pity though, it would've worked for me.

Gerard

I also think I recall somebody saying on here somewhere that some Making of material mentions the NTTD yacht is named "Happenstance", while the CR yacht was the "Soufrière".

Which is the name of three volcanos in the Carribeans, BTW.

RichardTheBruce

Not sure I've seen the expanded Jack London quote shared.

https://www.newsweek.com/m-quote-james-bond-no-time-die-ending-1634622

Where does the Jack London quote originate?

The quote used by M in No Time To Die was a snippet from a larger quote attributed to London.

According to Bartleby.com, the full quote was said by London to journalist Ernest J. Hopkins, who published them in San Francisco's The Bulletin on December 2, 1916.

London reportedly told Hopkins this while discussing his life just two months before his death. He was just 40 years old when he passed away on November 22, 1916.

The full excerpt from both the newspaper report reads:

I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

The function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time.

The wider quote was eventually unearthed from The Bulletin by Irving Shepard in his 1956 book Jack London's Tales of Adventure.

Feyador

Thanks for the above.

But I'm a little sorry now that Fiennes' M in NTTD didn't read the fuller Jack London quotation. It's lovely ... if perhaps a little too fitting given our man's outcome in the movie.

I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time.

M_Balje

I resently discover a video clip from London Grammer and must think about NTTD and OHMSS.



I think it speak for it self.

ImpertinentGoon

Feyador wrote: »

Thanks for the above.

But I'm a little sorry now that Fiennes' M in NTTD didn't read the fuller Jack London quotation. It's lovely ... if perhaps a little too fitting given our man's outcome in the movie.

I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time.

Absolutely. Maybe they felt it was too on the nose? Or it is actually a thought-out Easter Egg and they left those sentences out for us to find and appreciate... Wouldn't mind a reading of the full thing by Ralph Fiennes, though.

Little side note on fan pedantry: imdb actually has it as a goof that M is reading from the middle of a book, whereas the quote actually appears in the introduction to Jack London's Tales of Adventure. Does anyone know or can check, whether the title of the book he reads from is visible? It could just be a selection of quotes. I wouldn't put it past someone like M to have something like that handy.

Venutius

Excellent - saying that M's reading it from a collection of quotations is the perfect rebuttal!

4EverBonded

Birdleson wrote: »

I'm not going back and reading all seven pages, but I haven't heard or read anyone else bring up a reference that hit me as obvious and intentional from my first viewing. As we focus on Madeline walking through the train as she tracks Bond, it is the reverse point of view of that of Grant tracking Bond from the Orient Express in FRWL. I'm pretty sure that it had to be an intentional reference.

That is interesting. I was too involved with the story at that moment to make the FRWL connection (all 3 viewings, I never connected this bit to FRWL). Thanks for pointing that out. I also think maybe I accepted it without any other Bond film connection when watching NTTD because I have seen similar scenes of someone on a train, walking thru it (or still) and another person on the outside walking, then running, and running harder to keep them in sight. That kind of thing has been used in many movies; obviously emotional, poignant.

goldenswissroyale

I don't know if this was mentioned before: When Silva is captured and meets M he says "You're smaller than I remembered". Almost like Bond when he meets M the first time (after being away for years) when he says that M got smaller or the desk got bigger. I ask you with Ash's smile: "Coincidence"?

Venutius

Good catch, there!

BMB007

goldenswissroyale wrote: »

I don't know if this was mentioned before: When Silva is captured and meets M he says "You're smaller than I remembered". Almost like Bond when he meets M the first time (after being away for years) when he says that M got smaller or the desk got bigger. I ask you with Ash's smile: "Coincidence"?

Ha! That's a good catch, hadn't put 2 and 2 together before like that.

QBranch

goldenswissroyale wrote: »

I don't know if this was mentioned before: When Silva is captured and meets M he says "You're smaller than I remembered". Almost like Bond when he meets M the first time (after being away for years) when he says that M got smaller or the desk got bigger. I ask you with Ash's smile: "Coincidence"?

Fun connection there, and amusing moments in both films.

Not sure if it was mentioned here - regarding the Jack London passage as discussed above, another connection between Mallory and Mansfield is that Jack London's "I shall not waste my days..." is in Bond's complete obituary as written by Dench's M but not seen on screen:

ImpertinentGoon

It kind of tickles me to think that Mallory must have seen the first obituary especially by the time he had to write a new one and then decided to say that line, which was previously ascribed to someone from junior staff, in their private remembrance ceremony, as if he had come upon it himself.

As you said, we never see it on screen, but they do reference the "exemplar of British fortitude"-line, so it was written and published in the world of the films...

I may have to take this over to the bloopers thread :))

Also, as an aside: Isn't it a bit weird to call Bond a "classic cold-war warrior", when he was 22/23 years old when the Soviet Union disintegrated?

Thunderfinger

ImpertinentGoon wrote: »

It kind of tickles me to think that Mallory must have seen the first obituary especially by the time he had to write a new one and then decided to say that line, which was previously ascribed to someone from junior staff, in their private remembrance ceremony, as if he had come upon it himself.

As you said, we never see it on screen, but they do reference the "exemplar of British fortitude"-line, so it was written and published in the world of the films...

I may have to take this over to the bloopers thread :))

Also, as an aside: Isn't it a bit weird to call Bond a "classic cold-war warrior", when he was 22/23 years old when the Soviet Union disintegrated?

Haven t you noticed the cold war has been back the last decade or so?

mtm

QBranch wrote: »

goldenswissroyale wrote: »

I don't know if this was mentioned before: When Silva is captured and meets M he says "You're smaller than I remembered". Almost like Bond when he meets M the first time (after being away for years) when he says that M got smaller or the desk got bigger. I ask you with Ash's smile: "Coincidence"?

Fun connection there, and amusing moments in both films.

Not sure if it was mentioned here - regarding the Jack London passage as discussed above, another connection between Mallory and Mansfield is that Jack London's "I shall not waste my days..." is in Bond's complete obituary as written by Dench's M but not seen on screen:

I've not seen that before, I love that it ties in Roger Moore's Bond having served on the Ark Royal :)

QBranch

mtm wrote: »

I love that it ties in Roger Moore's Bond having served on the Ark Royal :)

Good spot. There's also a nod to his service on the aircraft carrier HMS Invincible from the John Gardner novel,
Win, Lose or Die.

mtm

Oh very good!

Venutius

I had seen it before, but I've never seen a source for it so I've never been sure if it's the actual full text of what was only partially seen on screen in SF or if someone had pieced it together themselves from what they thought it would've said. It'd be good to find out either way - anyone know?

QBranch

I typed out the obituary, following the prop as seen at the Designing 007 exhibits several years ago. You won't find a more accurate replica ;) There was also a newspaper clipping at the exhibit which copied the text word for word.