Double O by Kim Sherwood

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Comments

  • Posts: 2,918
    I'd prefer Kingsley Amis hadn't responded to my fan mail. He sent it back covered in red corrections.

    And a recommendation to buy this.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    Just got my copy of the book and am happy to say that excerpt posted in the paper is not the actual beginning of the book. Rather a more gripping start. The first edition is lovely in person. White and gold cover with the black and gold on the book underneath.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,539
    Double or Nothing by Kim Sherwood review — a Bond thriller without Bond
    https://thetimes.co.uk/article/double-or-nothing-by-kim-sherwood-review-007-is-missing-presumed-dead-7x3mr3lvp
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    Red_Snow wrote: »
    Double or Nothing by Kim Sherwood review — a Bond thriller without Bond
    https://thetimes.co.uk/article/double-or-nothing-by-kim-sherwood-review-007-is-missing-presumed-dead-7x3mr3lvp

    I tried reading it, but it’s something that I want to subscribe to. Can you please put up the whole review?
  • Revelator wrote: »
    I'd prefer Kingsley Amis hadn't responded to my fan mail. He sent it back covered in red corrections.

    And a recommendation to buy this.

    England's last great defense against illiteracy.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    edited August 2022 Posts: 22
    I'm about halfway through reading the book and am enjoying it. I have some minor gripes, but nothing major. I like the main three Double-Os fine. None of them are as striking as Bond, however. I still perk up the most whenever Bond himself is mentioned. If anyone has any questions and doesn't want to wait until you get hold of the book yourself, I'd be happy to answer.
    As a Goldeneye fan, I'm thrilled 006 got a brief mention, as a former friend of Bond and a past traitor. He wasn't named, but still enough to make me smile.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,634
    JAQ wrote: »
    I'm about halfway through reading the book and am enjoying it. I have some minor gripes, but nothing major. I like the main three Double-Os fine. None of them are as striking as Bond, however. I still perk up the most whenever Bond himself is mentioned. If anyone has any questions and doesn't want to wait until you get hold of the book yourself, I'd be happy to answer.
    As a Goldeneye fan, I'm thrilled 006 got a brief mention, as a former friend of Bond and a past traitor. He wasn't named, but still enough to make me smile.

    I thought she would do that. She is very open about her love for that Bond media as well.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,634
    JAQ wrote: »
    I'm about halfway through reading the book and am enjoying it. I have some minor gripes, but nothing major. I like the main three Double-Os fine. None of them are as striking as Bond, however. I still perk up the most whenever Bond himself is mentioned. If anyone has any questions and doesn't want to wait until you get hold of the book yourself, I'd be happy to answer.
    As a Goldeneye fan, I'm thrilled 006 got a brief mention, as a former friend of Bond and a past traitor. He wasn't named, but still enough to make me smile.
    Are Blofeld and Spectre mentioned? If not, they could be future villains in the trilogy. Maybe they’re the real masterminds behind Bond’s disappearance. It’s time they both made a literary Bond book comeback. Also, I heard that Felix Leiter and Tiger Tanaka make comeback appearances.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Are Blofeld and Spectre mentioned? If not, they could be future villains in the trilogy. Maybe they’re the real masterminds behind Bond’s disappearance. It’s time they both made a literary Bond book comeback. Also, I heard that Felix Leiter and Tiger Tanaka make comeback appearances.
    No mentions of Blofeld or Spectre as of yet. Felix does appear and has his two prosthetics from the shark attack. No Tiger Tanaka yet. There is another surprise old character return though........
    Mary Ann Russell.

  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    JAQ wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Are Blofeld and Spectre mentioned? If not, they could be future villains in the trilogy. Maybe they’re the real masterminds behind Bond’s disappearance. It’s time they both made a literary Bond book comeback. Also, I heard that Felix Leiter and Tiger Tanaka make comeback appearances.
    No mentions of Blofeld or Spectre as of yet. Felix does appear and has his two prosthetics from the shark attack. No Tiger Tanaka yet. There is another surprise old character return though........
    Mary Ann Russell.

    Thank you for the information! It’ll be a while before I read it.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Thank you for the information! It’ll be a while before I read it.

    No problem! I'm pro spoilers myself. I like to know what I'm getting into. So I don't mind sharing since I got the book a little bit early.

    As much as I would have preferred a Bond centric book, I am definitely getting more caught up in this story as it progresses.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,152
    JAQ wrote: »
    No problem! I'm pro spoilers myself.
    I thought I was the only one! I don't mind spoilers at all - if I find out how something ends before I've seen/read it, I still enjoy seeing how they got there.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    JAQ wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Are Blofeld and Spectre mentioned? If not, they could be future villains in the trilogy. Maybe they’re the real masterminds behind Bond’s disappearance. It’s time they both made a literary Bond book comeback. Also, I heard that Felix Leiter and Tiger Tanaka make comeback appearances.
    No mentions of Blofeld or Spectre as of yet. Felix does appear and has his two prosthetics from the shark attack. No Tiger Tanaka yet. There is another surprise old character return though........
    Mary Ann Russell.

    Thank you for the information! It’ll be a while before I read it.
    Tiger Tanaka does show up too, though it's very near the end :)
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    I just finished the book and overall I really enjoyed it. Definitely picked up the pace and tension in the final third. It did suffer from introducing so many new characters so quickly, and cramming in their backgrounds. I lost track of who had come from where a few times. But that could be solved with a reread.

    I would still prefer a new modern Bond series focused on Bond himself to this. But this is what we're getting, so I'm going to enjoy it for what it is. I will be pre-ordering the next book whenever it's available.

    As for the mole storyline and reveal... MAJOR SPOILERS WARNING!!!!!

    AGAIN, MAJOR SPOILERS, BE SURE YOU WANT TO CLICK!!!!!

    I'm torn about Bill Tanner being the mole. On one hand, it's properly shocking because he's such a classic character that we trust. On the other, it's not believable because we know him and expect better of him. It's not explained well how he didn't find a better way out of the situation. His son's life is threatened, ok. But his son is an adult, in a prison (we don't know why) that Tanner has access to. Tanner's position in MI6 should have given him the power to get his son out of there unharmed, especially if he'd gone to M for help. We don't know why he didn't. Maybe it'll be elaborated more in the next book. But it felt like case closed the way it was written and I just can't swallow it. Tanner being Tanner, with a long loyal career behind him, should have found another way out of the situation.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    JAQ wrote: »
    I just finished the book and overall I really enjoyed it. Definitely picked up the pace and tension in the final third. It did suffer from introducing so many new characters so quickly, and cramming in their backgrounds. I lost track of who had come from where a few times. But that could be solved with a reread.

    I would still prefer a new modern Bond series focused on Bond himself to this. But this is what we're getting, so I'm going to enjoy it for what it is. I will be pre-ordering the next book whenever it's available.

    As for the mole storyline and reveal... MAJOR SPOILERS WARNING!!!!!

    AGAIN, MAJOR SPOILERS, BE SURE YOU WANT TO CLICK!!!!!

    I'm torn about Bill Tanner being the mole. On one hand, it's properly shocking because he's such a classic character that we trust. On the other, it's not believable because we know him and expect better of him. It's not explained well how he didn't find a better way out of the situation. His son's life is threatened, ok. But his son is an adult, in a prison (we don't know why) that Tanner has access to. Tanner's position in MI6 should have given him the power to get his son out of there unharmed, especially if he'd gone to M for help. We don't know why he didn't. Maybe it'll be elaborated more in the next book. But it felt like case closed the way it was written and I just can't swallow it. Tanner being Tanner, with a long loyal career behind him, should have found another way out of the situation.
    I have the feeling that fans are going see Bill Tanner’s betrayal as a reference to John Logan’s script for Spectre. I personally think it will be looked at as similar to Jim Phelps in Mission Impossible 1. A backlash will probably be coming, as if there is one against this series already. I think that Bond will appear, in a style similar to Luke at the end of The Force Awakens. It could be in the next book or at the end of the trilogy. There are more Star Wars predictions/connections. I wonder if Blofeld and Spectre are the real masterminds behind it. Like Palpatine in The Rise of Skywalker. Rattenfänger and Sir Bertram Paradise are part of Spectre as a whole. I hope Felix Leiter and Tiger Tanaka get more action in the next stories. One last thing: could Dynamite Comics’ Felix Leiter comic book story be canon with the trilogy? I feel it could be a great prequel for this series!
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    JAQ wrote: »
    I just finished the book and overall I really enjoyed it. Definitely picked up the pace and tension in the final third. It did suffer from introducing so many new characters so quickly, and cramming in their backgrounds. I lost track of who had come from where a few times. But that could be solved with a reread.

    I would still prefer a new modern Bond series focused on Bond himself to this. But this is what we're getting, so I'm going to enjoy it for what it is. I will be pre-ordering the next book whenever it's available.

    As for the mole storyline and reveal... MAJOR SPOILERS WARNING!!!!!

    AGAIN, MAJOR SPOILERS, BE SURE YOU WANT TO CLICK!!!!!

    I'm torn about Bill Tanner being the mole. On one hand, it's properly shocking because he's such a classic character that we trust. On the other, it's not believable because we know him and expect better of him. It's not explained well how he didn't find a better way out of the situation. His son's life is threatened, ok. But his son is an adult, in a prison (we don't know why) that Tanner has access to. Tanner's position in MI6 should have given him the power to get his son out of there unharmed, especially if he'd gone to M for help. We don't know why he didn't. Maybe it'll be elaborated more in the next book. But it felt like case closed the way it was written and I just can't swallow it. Tanner being Tanner, with a long loyal career behind him, should have found another way out of the situation.
    I have the feeling that fans are going see Bill Tanner’s betrayal as a reference to John Logan’s script for Spectre. I personally think it will be looked at as similar to Jim Phelps in Mission Impossible 1. A backlash will probably be coming, as if there is one against this series already. I think that Bond will appear, in a style similar to Luke at the end of The Force Awakens. It could be in the next book or at the end of the trilogy. There are more Star Wars predictions/connections. I wonder if Blofeld and Spectre are the real masterminds behind it. Like Palpatine in The Rise of Skywalker. Rattenfänger and Sir Bertram Paradise are part of Spectre as a whole. I hope Felix Leiter and Tiger Tanaka get more action in the next stories. One last thing: could Dynamite Comics’ Felix Leiter comic book story be canon with the trilogy? I feel it could be a great prequel for this series!
    I haven't read the comic so I can't say if there's a connection. Felix does get a decent amount of action in this book. Tiger Tanaka on the other hand is a very quick cameo. I really hope Bond isn't as out of character as Luke was when he reappears, lol. But with this long in captivity, who knows.
  • Posts: 2,918
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I tried reading it, but it’s something that I want to subscribe to. Can you please put up the whole review?

    Here you go. Mild spoilers.
    Double or Nothing by Kim Sherwood review — a Bond thriller without Bond

    Moneypenny’s in charge in this latest 007 instalment. But Robert Crampton misses the main man (The Times, Aug. 26)

    This latest instalment in the 007 continuation series has been criticised, sight unseen, by some purists as the wokeification of Bond. Then again, diehards have been slagging off Bond for going all PC ever since Daniel Craig got a bit introspective in Casino Royale.

    The truth is, Bond needed to upgrade his manners. Remaining a xenophobic snob wasn’t an option. If some readers get upset because in Double or Nothing one of the “double-0s” introduced here is a gay black chap, and another is an Anglo-Indian maths genius, and another, gasp, possibly attended state school, that’s their problem. I bet the real MI6 is chock full of Anglo-Indian maths geniuses. I hope so.

    Also, I like it that Moneypenny is now in charge. Nice touch that, especially since she must be closing in on her 100th birthday. Social mobility, feminism and anti-ageism ticked off in one character. M is still hanging in there, wearing red Converse these days. If Moneypenny is nearly ton-up, old M must be about 130.

    The problem I had with Double or Nothing isn’t Kim Sherwood’s cultural update, it’s that James Bond, missing presumed dead, isn’t in it. So we get a Bond book without Bond. Which means we get a decent but nothing special spy thriller, better than Fleming in one way (because Fleming was a mediocre writer), but far inferior in the only way that matters. Because Fleming had one stroke of genius, namely creating this one fabulous character, the premier fictional star of the late 20th century. And Sherwood chooses to place this star, this legend, this 101-year-old king of cars and costume, coitus and cloak and dagger, not to mention luxury travel, off stage. Weird one.

    The plot doesn’t compensate. I don’t mind admitting I didn’t always understand what was going on. There’s a Wagner group-style international gang of evil mercenaries with the thrillingly Nazi-style name of Rattenfanger, which translates as rat-catcher and sounds like a German death metal band, which in fact it is. And there’s an overall big baddy plutocrat, who isn’t even a little bit reminiscent of Elon Musk, who says he is fighting climate change, but — guess what? — the spooky bugger is actually accelerating it!

    Felix Leiter, 35 when Fleming introduced him in Casino Royale in 1953 and thus now 104, turns up, very sprightly considering his age and that he was half eaten by a shark in Live and Let Die in 1954. Good old Tiger Tanaka, the head of the Japanese secret service from You Only Live Twice, has a cameo too, at the age, I estimate, of 98. It’s decent fun, but in a very crowded thriller market, by no means a must-read.

    One further point. The Bond films are often slated for excessive product placement, and Sherwood falls victim to the same temptation. Her thing isn’t booze or suits, it’s watches. The obsession starts innocently enough with a plain old Casio, then moves via a Garmin MARQ Commander to a Richard Mille RM 11-05, “the cogs turning beneath a new material that combined the lightness of titanium with the hardness of diamond”, which reads like a lift from the brochure. Moneypenny sports a “Nanna Ditzel for Georg Jensen in silver with a satin finish”, which, hilariously, she strokes and thinks “of Harwood’s watch by Hermès”. Harwood, meanwhile, “glanced at her enamel Hermès watch by Anita Porchet” (a bit pricey for a humble civil servant, I’d have thought) and so on.

    All rather odd. And while I was happy to further my knowledge of the luxury chronograph market, this didn’t make up for the absence of the guy who favours the Omega Seamaster while reliably saving the world every other year.

    James Bond will return? I bloody well hope so, and soon.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2022 Posts: 16,413
    Thanks Revelator. It's a shame there's only really one sentence of review of how the book reads in that, the rest mostly focusing on the absence of Bond. Which I guess is fair enough, it is the book's USP I guess (although it is indeed a bit odd for a book to sell itself on what isn't in it, when you think about it).
    The watch thing sounds a bit weird too, although I am quite taken with the name of the evil group: that could be a novel title in itself.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    Posts: 22
    MaxCasino wrote: »

    Interesting! I actually found Dryden the most compelling of the three new Double-Os. He seemed the most his own character. Whereas Bashir and Harwood felt more like they were riding Bond's coattails.



  • Posts: 9,847
    Two questions

    1. Do you get a sense of Kim Sherwood’s James Bond 007?
    2. Does Bond get mentioned at all?

    Thanks
  • JAQJAQ USA
    edited September 2022 Posts: 22
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Two questions

    1. Do you get a sense of Kim Sherwood’s James Bond 007?
    2. Does Bond get mentioned at all?

    Thanks

    I wasn't going to cut this, but got worried. Could be mild spoilers.
    He gets mentioned a lot! Though we never see him in a present setting. There's a decent amount of flashback type scenes that feature him. He's had a big influence on Bashir, Harwood, and of course Moneypenny. Dryden is the only main character that specifically never worked with him and doesn't think of him much one way or another.

    Sherwood's Bond seems relatively in line with a modernized Fleming Bond. He's got the comma hair description, philosophy of living extravagantly because of a likely short life, and is torn between wanting to retire and not being able to let go of being an agent.

    He's specifically aged 45 and had moved to a combination role of training agents and intermittent missions.

    It's mentioned he's had two great loves in his life. Vesper is mentioned by name, could assume the other was Tracy. His feelings for Harwood are implied to be on that level. Which is the main part I was iffy about because while we do get some flashbacks of them together, it wasn't enough for me to be convinced their feelings were worth that status.

    Without going into major spoilers territory with the details, we do get information on the mission where he went missing, too.
  • edited September 2022 Posts: 9,847
    JAQ wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Two questions

    1. Do you get a sense of Kim Sherwood’s James Bond 007?
    2. Does Bond get mentioned at all?

    Thanks

    I wasn't going to cut this, but got worried. Could be mild spoilers.
    He gets mentioned a lot! Though we never see him in a present setting. There's a decent amount of flashback type scenes that feature him. He's had a big influence on Bashir, Harwood, and of course Moneypenny. Dryden is the only main character that specifically never worked with him and doesn't think of him much one way or another.

    Sherwood's Bond seems relatively in line with a modernized Fleming Bond. He's got the comma hair description, philosophy of living extravagantly because of a likely short life, and is torn between wanting to retire and not being able to let go of being an agent.

    He's specifically aged 45 and had moved to a combination role of training agents and intermittent missions.

    It's mentioned he's had two great loves in his life. Vesper is mentioned by name, could assume the other was Tracy. His feelings for Harwood are implied to be on that level. Which is the main part I was iffy about because while we do get some flashbacks of them together, it wasn't enough for me to be convinced their feelings were worth that status.

    Without going into major spoilers territory with the details, we do get information on the mission where he went missing, too.

    Ok Becaue of this I will pick up double or nothing whenever I get around to finishing With a mind to kill…
    sorry Bond as the bad guy feels weird and wrong even though it’s a cover it still feels wrong
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    edited September 2022 Posts: 575
    I'm about 100 pages in and I kind of want to have a bit of an in depth rant about it now but I'll hold back until I finish. However, I will get a little bit off my chest.
    The portrayal of Bond makes me a little urgh. I just hope it's a case of the unreliable narrator.

    The book so far has been flowing like a melodramatic love triangle from a soap opera and it feels so off.

    The bits with Dryden are great so far though.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    edited September 2022 Posts: 22
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I'm about 100 pages in and I kind of want to have a bit of an in depth rant about it now but I'll hold back until I finish. However, I will get a little bit off my chest.
    The portrayal of Bond makes me a little urgh. I just hope it's a case of the unreliable narrator.

    The book so far has been flowing like a melodramatic love triangle from a soap opera and it feels so off.

    The bits with Dryden are great so far though.
    I agree the love triangle was annoying and entirely unnecessary. I didn't have any major issues with Bond's portrayal beyond that, though. It might be because, like you said, we're only seeing him through other people's perspectives.

    Dryden's parts were the most engrossing for me, too.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    @JAQ a few more questions that are also spoilers.
    Does Sir Bertram die? Is Rattenfänger still active at the end? Do Tiger Tanaka and Felix Leiter get setups for bigger roles in the sequel? Was Sir Bertram working with someone bigger? Do Mary Goodnight, Loelia Ponsonby, and May get mentioned? I seems to me that these stories are going to do what John Gardener did: have Fleming’s stories be set in the 2000s to the 2010s, so the recent past, (including possibly Goldeneye). Kim Sherwood has already written the final chapter of the trilogy. She knows what she wants to write.
  • JAQJAQ USA
    edited September 2022 Posts: 22
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    @JAQ a few more questions that are also spoilers.
    Does Sir Bertram die? Is Rattenfänger still active at the end? Do Tiger Tanaka and Felix Leiter get setups for bigger roles in the sequel? Was Sir Bertram working with someone bigger? Do Mary Goodnight, Loelia Ponsonby, and May get mentioned? I seems to me that these stories are going to do what John Gardener did: have Fleming’s stories be set in the 2000s to the 2010s, so the recent past, (including possibly Goldeneye). Kim Sherwood has already written the final chapter of the trilogy. She knows what she wants to write.
    Yes, Bertram dies. Rattenfanger is still active, but their main leader is captured. Rattenfanger was controlling Bertram, it's revealed.

    It isn't specifically set up that Felix and Tanaka will have bigger roles, but the possibility is open.

    None of them were mentioned. Trigger from The Living Daylights was, though. She's apparently still around taking shots at people, despite the injury Bond gave her, so she could pop up again later.

    I agree that it seems some version of the Fleming novels and possibly some of the movies took place in the more recent past in these books.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,634
    JAQ wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    @JAQ a few more questions that are also spoilers.
    Does Sir Bertram die? Is Rattenfänger still active at the end? Do Tiger Tanaka and Felix Leiter get setups for bigger roles in the sequel? Was Sir Bertram working with someone bigger? Do Mary Goodnight, Loelia Ponsonby, and May get mentioned? I seems to me that these stories are going to do what John Gardener did: have Fleming’s stories be set in the 2000s to the 2010s, so the recent past, (including possibly Goldeneye). Kim Sherwood has already written the final chapter of the trilogy. She knows what she wants to write.
    Yes, Bertram dies. Rattenfanger is still active, but their main leader is captured. Rattenfanger was controlling Bertram, it's revealed.

    It isn't specifically set up that Felix and Tanaka will have bigger roles, but the possibility is open.

    None of them were mentioned. Trigger from The Living Daylights was, though. She's apparently still around taking shots at people, despite the injury Bond gave her, so she could pop up again later.

    I agree that it seems some version of the Fleming novels and possibly some of the movies took place in the more recent past in these books.

    Thank you for your help!
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited September 2022 Posts: 4,634


    Another great interview to check out!

    There’s an interesting discussion about Bond continuity midway through between Sherwood and the interviewer, where she describes the pre-Craig films as having a bit of a ‘‘fairytale’’ element. She then basically states (not in so many words) that her books have a ‘floating timeline’ in place where some version of the events of Fleming’s books happened in the 80’s, 90’s and 00’s…but also some of Bond’s Cold War-era history and experience has now been transplanted to her version of M.

    She also talks about how she wants to honor the film version of Bond as well, much like how Fleming himself did in his later books (by making Bond Scottish like Connery for instance). And the interviewer sort of hints that her book is inspired significantly by the Brosnan era.

    Towards the end of the video, she confirms she is almost done with book two. She also said it should be out by the end of next year.
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