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We reach! :-bd
It's superb. I also love "A Foggy Night In London" and of course "Morocco Pursuit".
To hell with it - it's all great.
Mind you I love both of Giacchino's previous entries, too.
MI:2 was a really good Zimmer score - just not a very good Mission Impossible score.
As you say; similar to what Barry did for Bond, Schifrin did for Mission Impossible. The motifs and overall sound are unmistakeable for anything else.
Zimmer just did his thing. Both he and Woo were the wrong men for their respective jobs, despite their obvious talents.
Yeah, I like Zimmer's score for Black Rain but aside from that I'm not a fan of his. What he did was fine for a generic action movie score but like Bond, needs something to scream of it's source. MI:2 is my least favorite in the series anyway. :P
While watching the movie there were plenty of times where I was flabbergasted by the commonalities between MI: RN and SP. To name just a few (in tags for those who haven't seen one or the other):
*Morocco, Austria and London are major locations of both films.
*The plots of both implicate corrupt British officials in high ranks of intelligence communities/groups that sympathize with or aid the big bad organization from the shadows.
*Bond and Hunt both end their respective films with the promise of a long-lasting love, and ideas have been planted in their heads throughout the length of the film that there is a life beyond the dangerous one they've chosen to live. We don't know whether or not their choices will last, however, or if they truly are finished with the spy work. It is easier to judge SP over RN when it comes to this, as we actually see Bond going somewhere with Ms. Swann, where as we don't know what Hunt is up to by the time the IMF is back online.
*Both films deal with transparency in intelligence organizations and present arguments for and against the use of human agents in the field in an ever growing technological world. For a large portion of both films, IMF and the 00 section are effectively out of commission, leaving the agents and their intelligence community superiors to go silent and take care of business without consent or oversight.
I'm sure there's others I haven't even properly absorbed/connected yet.
This is also quite an interesting article:
https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2015/08/02/the-hunt-for-bond-mi-connections-to-007/
Regarding the Syndicate vs. S.P.E.C.T.R.E.: For me S.P.E.C.T.R.E. felt way more threatening. The torture scene with Hunt and the Bonedoctor could have been so so much more. I would have liked to see Hunt really suffer. Instead, we got to see a real 'Bonedoctor' at work in "SPECTRE". And his name was Blofeld. Another great scene that SP did better was the S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-operative who got challenged by Hinx, and who got killed in a very nasty, gory way. Something "Rogue Nation" never did.
There's a massive chunk of similarities, for sure.
In this instance, though, I think MI:RN did a much better job of handling those ideas than Bond did this time around. This is probably due to the talents of McQuarrie not just as a director but as a writer. He has a very deft touch when it comes to layering loyalties upon loyalties, and that's why Ilsa Faust is one of the best femme fatales I've seen in years and also why I bought into her and Hunt's relationship more than I did with Bond and Swann - especially when it came to the film's respective denouements. Hunt decides to stay despite having a beautiful reason not to, while Bond leaves for the same.
Also regarding @Gustav's points above;
Sure, we could have had those things in RN but then you'd essentially have a carbon copy and I don't think that would be wise. Especially, I think, when it comes to the henchmen. The Syndicate of old featured stuffy men in 60's suits who did little but show up and then disappear five minutes later. The updated version obviously had ex-spies instead, but I always felt that something like the Syndicate could easily exist in this very vague world. An OTT henchman like Hinx might not have fit in to that idea very well.
Spectre did a lot of individual things better, but I found MI a much fuller experience this time around.
It's a reversal of how I felt after comparing Ghost Protocol and Skyfall.
For that "fuller" experience we already have "Casino Royale". That film didn't have OTT henchmen like Hinx. And that sinister Le Chiffre and his vague henchmen (one with bald head), plus that other mysterious Mr White and his organisation....also could exist in this very vague, but real world.
On the other hand, I am foremost a Bond fan. And although part of the plot of "SPECTRE" is grounded in reality, I was in need of some 'Fleming Sauce' as well. With that I mean: A bit of escapism.
You know, "Skyfall" got applauded for many of these 'individual' scenes (introduction of Silva, William Tell-game/Death of Severine, Silva-hearring with M, Tennyson speech/Shoot-out, Death of M). "SPECTRE" for me has got similar, sometimes better of these dramatic/'actor' scenes (S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-board meeting, Hinx' signature kill, fight scene on train, 2nd introduction of Blofeld in Morocco, torture sequence). And on top of that, I thought the actions of Hinx and Blofeld were slightly better grounded/explained. Yet for some reason 'we now don't like that anymore'. And that's because we compare.....and compare....and compare.
"Rogue Nation" came along and that suddenly should be the new standard for Bond. Whereas I saw it all in "Casino Royale", "Quantum Of Solace", "Skyfall" and "SPECTRE". If "Rogue Nation" actually was a Bond film, then I think reviews would have been much worse. It's because "Mission: Impossible" applies and re-invents Bond-tropes in a very smart way. And because that hasn't been seen too much in previous "Mission: Impossible"-films, critics applaud that approach.
Comparing films that are years apart is a moot point of comparison and doesn't result in anything other than pointless checklisting. The only reason I would even mention SP and RN is because they're less than six months apart. Likewise for GP and SF.
I wouldn't even try and compare SP to CR beyond the obvious. I fail to see why you're even bringing that up.
I don't believe I said RN should be the new standard for Bond either. Just because it happens to be a better film overall than Spectre doesn't equate to me saying that Bond films should be like it.
Skyfall was applauded for these "individual scenes" because they worked in tandem towards the overall narrative. The people who criticise them are most likely the ones who didn't like the film as a whole anyway.
A lot of the reaction I've seen to Spectre has highlighted some great scenes but also highlighted a lot of negativity to the overall story.
I enjoyed it nonetheless.
I thought both films had interesting romance angles, but neither really "wowed" me, as both Hunt and Bond have had amazing loves before these films that trump anything else afterward. Julia and Vesper respectively were so spectacular and "special" that anything after them feels truly lacking. Not that I didn't love Isla, by the way; quite the contrary.
I liked RN's approach to a big organization of ex-spies, and I feel the threat was quite equal to what was posed by SPECTRE in SP, and at times moreso. One thing I found strange about RN was how out in the open Lane often was, which didn't seem plausible for the leader of a secret organization. In this way, Blofeld felt more believable as he let others do most things for him, shadowing himself at the top of the pile to avoid getting found out. On the other hand, the organization's goal in RN felt more interesting to me than SP, as it felt like there were more stakes in it.
What makes the Mission Impossible films really stand out in the spy genre for me is how they are essentially really heist films. GP and RN are especially true to this, as they feature a team facing unimaginable hurdles to obtain one single, significant item in a race against time with another equally skilled party challenging them for said object. The heist genre meshed with the spy genre's world of intrigue and espionage really works to great effect, and the MI films are just clever in the way that they use it and how they create these many hurdles the characters have to jump through via very cool gadgets.
I really hope McQuarrie stays on for another MI film, as I was pleased with his work both in the director's chair and writing room. RN is to the level of GP, and did a great many things extremely well with an interesting premise, great heist elements and entertaining spectacle, as we've come to expect from an MI film. Similarly, McQuarrie's recent work here gives me hope for the Jack Reacher sequel, the debut of which I was more than a little disappointed with.
Agreed with @OBrady once more.
Although regarding the comparisons between the organisations - Lane was an ex-spy at the head of an organisation that, to me, didn't seem to be as big as Spectre even though it was obviously still very effective. He seemed to like the more hands on approach because of his skillset. The way Harris played him struck me as a character who was evil but also quite bored and frustrated by the failings of Faust and the men in his employ.
It was a stark comparison to the much more reserved, cool and calculating Blofeld - who was untrained in any field duty as far as we know. Maybe because he looked down upon it.
Both interesting characters. Although on balance Waltz' is easily the more watchable.
Anxiously awaiting the blu.
This year, during Christmas, MI-RN & GP will join North By Northwest in my annual holiday filmathon. I usually include FRWL with North by Northwest or To Catch A Thief, but already went through the Bond films pre-SP Bondathon recently, so may leave that one for when the SP blu is released.
That is a really good point. He could be a figurehead of some description.
Yeah, that's exactly what I felt. The finale demonstrated it perfectly. Lane up until that point was a behind the scenes puppateer. However in London, Hunt challenged and then directly damaged his ego.
Lane's "spy vs. spy" mind kicked in and caused him to make the poor decision to chase Hunt down when he really didn't need to.
That was another point. For all the talk of the ending being severely rewritten, it all fell together really well.
Also agreed about Hendricks' in GP. I found him to be a wallpaper standard villain. Very little motivation given to why he was doing what he was doing. It didn't really matter to the film as a whole but it meant that he was one of the least memorable things about it.
There has never been any definitive clarification of what the original was supposed to be but McQuarrie said there was going to be more of Lane. But the whole London segment wasn't pleasing to the execs at Paramount (allegedly) so it had to be rewritten and reshot, and Harris' screentime was reduced to what we have now.
Because, others are bringing that up. And as far as I know there's nothing wrong to counter-balance all the negative "comparison sickness" in this forum with a tinyyyy bit of blatant, subjective comparisons that indeed gives you a more positive perspective on our beautiful Bond franchise.
Moreover, I think it's valid too, because "RN" gets applauded for so many 'original' and 'wonderful' elements, that people at times forget we already saw most of it in previous Bond films. It's good not to put "Mission: Impossible" on the highest step yet.
As for Madeline, I´m not yet entirely sure what to think. The love thing between her and Bond was a bit shallow, but the idea of Bond leaving the scene with her at the end of the movie seems a good template for future Bond films, especially as long as they fool around with the rogue Bond idea.
@bondjames, you are a man of style.
RN felt special because it looks as if it is entirely patchworked from other movies, yet at the same time boldly and relentlessly makes those elements its own, which earns it a lot of respect in my book. Could be at the same time, that I will tire of it in the future because I know all those things from other movies ;-).
Dutch cover
As with Mi4, bol..com wil release limited Dutch Bluray release of Rogue nation with bonus disc. Possible this bonus disc wil include 50 minutes features about the stunts of movie if we get same bonus disc as with American release. Unknown or other extra's are stil on first disc (as bluray.com claiming) or together on the bonus disc.
Source Bluray.com:
Extra's:
True but Rogue does mean i am naughty! :))
Sure, action scenes homage Bond (who doesn't homage Bond at the end of the day.....the grand daddy of them all) but I thought they brought something new to each scene, each time.
Even the little humour about Hunt during the Morocco chase (after he crashes) brought a small chuckle. Same with his 'wait a moment' signal to the blonde brute up on the raftors at the Opera.
So it's not the originality as far as I'm concerned.....it's the freshness of the component parts. Bond has done that too, many times before in the franchise history, most notably in TSWLM, which is a definite tribute to Bonds of old....but it all just seemed fresh to me despite that. Interestingly, one of the greatest Bonds of all (FRWL) homages North by Northwest in some key scenes as well.
It's not an easy thing to pull off, and of course the perception varies depending on the viewer's perspective. This is strictly mine.
Thank you @boldfinger.