Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited March 2017 Posts: 15,423
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Christopher Mcquarrie “I’ve seen five of these movies and I don’t know who Ethan Hunt is. One movie sort of dealt with his personal life; the other movies are about people speculating what’s really going on in Ethan’s head. I want to know who Ethan is in this movie, I want an emotional journey for this character, and Tom really embraced it.”

    His approach this time, then, was to say “‘I don’t want to string together a bunch of action scenes, I want to actually deal with character’. So I put Ethan in a bunch of complicated moral quandaries, and I’m trying to find ways to connect them – and then, ironically, the way to connect them was through giant action scenes.”

    http://collider.com/mission-impossible-6-opening-scene-christopher-mcquarrie/
    I´m extremely sceptic about emphasis on character arc in action films, but this cracked me up :-)): "Maybe they can bring back Thandie Newton and give her a character who’s not awful. That would be nice."

    Defined personality? Yes, please, as long as it can be seen in any moment of the story, and not in dumb flashbacks or side stories á la MI3 that in effect have nothing to do with the actual story and just steal its time.
    Precisely.

    Watch it, guys. Ethan really cared for Keri Russell!
    Wouldn't you, Brady? :D

    Nah, she's not my type.
    I personally loved her in both III and the television series The Americans. Then again, I always have a thing for women who know how to handle themselves in fistfights and gunfights alike.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Christopher Mcquarrie “I’ve seen five of these movies and I don’t know who Ethan Hunt is. One movie sort of dealt with his personal life; the other movies are about people speculating what’s really going on in Ethan’s head. I want to know who Ethan is in this movie, I want an emotional journey for this character, and Tom really embraced it.”

    His approach this time, then, was to say “‘I don’t want to string together a bunch of action scenes, I want to actually deal with character’. So I put Ethan in a bunch of complicated moral quandaries, and I’m trying to find ways to connect them – and then, ironically, the way to connect them was through giant action scenes.”

    http://collider.com/mission-impossible-6-opening-scene-christopher-mcquarrie/
    I´m extremely sceptic about emphasis on character arc in action films, but this cracked me up :-)): "Maybe they can bring back Thandie Newton and give her a character who’s not awful. That would be nice."

    Defined personality? Yes, please, as long as it can be seen in any moment of the story, and not in dumb flashbacks or side stories á la MI3 that in effect have nothing to do with the actual story and just steal its time.
    Precisely.

    Watch it, guys. Ethan really cared for Keri Russell!
    Wouldn't you, Brady? :D

    Nah, she's not my type.
    I personally loved her in both III and the television series The Americans. Then again, I always have a thing for women who know how to handle themselves in fistfights and gunfights alike.

    Yeah, I'm with you there. I thought she was great in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, too.

    She strikes me as very feisty.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I've never seen the appeal of Felicity personally, but can appreciate that some feel otherwise. I didn't mind her small part in MI3 but overall that film didn't do much for me. A little too sentimental for my tastes.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Christopher Mcquarrie “I’ve seen five of these movies and I don’t know who Ethan Hunt is. One movie sort of dealt with his personal life; the other movies are about people speculating what’s really going on in Ethan’s head. I want to know who Ethan is in this movie, I want an emotional journey for this character, and Tom really embraced it.”

    His approach this time, then, was to say “‘I don’t want to string together a bunch of action scenes, I want to actually deal with character’. So I put Ethan in a bunch of complicated moral quandaries, and I’m trying to find ways to connect them – and then, ironically, the way to connect them was through giant action scenes.”

    http://collider.com/mission-impossible-6-opening-scene-christopher-mcquarrie/
    I´m extremely sceptic about emphasis on character arc in action films, but this cracked me up :-)): "Maybe they can bring back Thandie Newton and give her a character who’s not awful. That would be nice."

    Defined personality? Yes, please, as long as it can be seen in any moment of the story, and not in dumb flashbacks or side stories á la MI3 that in effect have nothing to do with the actual story and just steal its time.
    Precisely.

    Watch it, guys. Ethan really cared for Keri Russell!
    Wouldn't you, Brady? :D

    Nah, she's not my type.
    I personally loved her in both III and the television series The Americans. Then again, I always have a thing for women who know how to handle themselves in fistfights and gunfights alike.

    Yeah, I'm with you there. I thought she was great in Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, too.

    She strikes me as very feisty.
    Haven't seen Planet yet, but I'm tending to.

    The feistier the women the better, in my opinion. :D
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've never seen the appeal of Felicity personally, but can appreciate that some feel otherwise. I didn't mind her small part in MI3 but overall that film didn't do much for me. A little too sentimental for my tastes.
    Yeah, M:I3 is pretty much a ballsed up soap opera movie, definitely not for my taste, as well. But, there were things in it I did appreciate, including the famous Maggie Q scene as she steps out of the car... Good God!
  • Amusingly, M:I creator Bruce Geller didn't want to tell background about the characters and got annoyed when scripts came through that did it. The problem was, they were some of the better episodes of the series.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've never seen the appeal of Felicity personally, but can appreciate that some feel otherwise. I didn't mind her small part in MI3 but overall that film didn't do much for me. A little too sentimental for my tastes.
    Yeah, M:I3 is pretty much a ballsed up soap opera movie, definitely not for my taste, as well. But, there were things in it I did appreciate, including the famous Maggie Q scene as she steps out of the car... Good God!
    +1. Maggie was in her prime back then and definitely helped elevate (ahem) the film. I missed her in MI4. There are indeed some great sequences in that film, not least the snatching of Davian in Rome followed by the interrogation on the plane. The hunter becomes the hunted.

    "You have a wife, girlfriend? It's up to you how this goes. Because you know what I'm going to do next? I'm going to find her, whoever she is, I'm going to find her, and I'm going to hurt her."
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    One thing that I've liked about the IM series is how they handle their female characters; they're strong, confident, capable and in many cases badass, without being heavy handed about it. There's no "Ethan's equal" agenda.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    bondjames wrote: »
    I've never seen the appeal of Felicity personally, but can appreciate that some feel otherwise. I didn't mind her small part in MI3 but overall that film didn't do much for me. A little too sentimental for my tastes.

    @bondjames, I think that part of the film would've been more powerful if the woman was replaced with someone from Ethan's past we knew, and not someone we're supposed to suddenly know and care about from one flashback. There's just no real impact, and when Ethan saves her you think, "Oh yeah, the girl from the video. Cool."
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. it's been a while since I've seen it but to some extent I think it worked because they used her as a throw away with the primary purpose to set up the notion for the audience that Hunt could never have a normal relationship given his profession, and also to create context for the upcoming Hoffmann Davian threat.

    It perhaps made sense in this case to use a former trainee without a background with the audience rather than someone we would more readily empathize with. If we had another character who we knew it might have been too heavy handed.
  • Posts: 5,767
    But, there were things in it I did appreciate, including the famous Maggie Q scene as she steps out of the car... Good God!
    I never cared much about her, she looked more trying than strong. Paula Patton on the other hand gave the impression that she could single-handedly throw a 6 foot bouncer out of the window.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    boldfinger wrote: »
    But, there were things in it I did appreciate, including the famous Maggie Q scene as she steps out of the car... Good God!
    I never cared much about her, she looked more trying than strong. Paula Patton on the other hand gave the impression that she could single-handedly throw a 6 foot bouncer out of the window.
    Well, no doubt Paula Patton is by far superior. I could even go as far to say she's the best leading lady the film franchise ever had. My ranking of M:I women go like this:

    Paula Patton - Jane Carter
    Rebecca Ferguson - Ilsa Faust
    Emmanuelle Beart - Claire Phelps
    Maggie Q - Zhen Lei
    Keri Russell - Lindsey Farris
    Thandie Newton - Nyah Nordoff-Hall
    Michelle Monaghan - Julie Meade-Hunt
  • Posts: 5,767
    boldfinger wrote: »
    But, there were things in it I did appreciate, including the famous Maggie Q scene as she steps out of the car... Good God!
    I never cared much about her, she looked more trying than strong. Paula Patton on the other hand gave the impression that she could single-handedly throw a 6 foot bouncer out of the window.
    Well, no doubt Paula Patton is by far superior. I could even go as far to say she's the best leading lady the film franchise ever had. My ranking of M:I women go like this:

    Paula Patton - Jane Carter
    Rebecca Ferguson - Ilsa Faust
    Emmanuelle Beart - Claire Phelps
    Maggie Q - Zhen Lei
    Keri Russell - Lindsey Farris
    Thandie Newton - Nyah Nordoff-Hall
    Michelle Monaghan - Julie Meade-Hunt
    The first three I agree on. The others I don´t have any clear recollection of... ;-)

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    boldfinger wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    But, there were things in it I did appreciate, including the famous Maggie Q scene as she steps out of the car... Good God!
    I never cared much about her, she looked more trying than strong. Paula Patton on the other hand gave the impression that she could single-handedly throw a 6 foot bouncer out of the window.
    Well, no doubt Paula Patton is by far superior. I could even go as far to say she's the best leading lady the film franchise ever had. My ranking of M:I women go like this:

    Paula Patton - Jane Carter
    Rebecca Ferguson - Ilsa Faust
    Emmanuelle Beart - Claire Phelps
    Maggie Q - Zhen Lei
    Keri Russell - Lindsey Farris
    Thandie Newton - Nyah Nordoff-Hall
    Michelle Monaghan - Julie Meade-Hunt
    The first three I agree on. The others I don´t have any clear recollection of... ;-)
    Sneaky. ;)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    MI:3 is an amazing action film. I never know which scenes people are talking about when they say the film is overly emotional or whatever. Too me, the personal stuff here is executed much more effectively than what we see in CR. In fact, you could say that CR kind of ends how MI:3 begins. A torture scene, followed by Bond/Ethan attempting to save a woman he cares about. Actually, there are quite a few similarities now that I think about it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I was fearful for Bond in 2006 because Hunt wiped the floor with 007 in the early 00's (box office wise MI2 was killing Brozza's entries). When I saw MI3 in the summer I knew the upcoming CR had a chance to reclaim the throne. I wasn't wrong.

    On the Hunt babes, it's Ilsa Faust all the way for me. Perfection. Claire was great too ("Ethan...the moneee"....love her French accent).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited March 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Not to sound cheeky, but comparing Casino Royale to M:I-3 is like comparing the power of the sun to the moon. Mission: Impossible is not intended to be a character-driven series. The James Bond film series however could be, as it deals with one person's adventures and even daily life. M:I is about espionage teamwork in the field, and the personal angle of including Julia should have been nothing but a background story merely mentioned during a dialogue or whatever.

    M:I-3 could easily be renamed to The Ethan Hunt Saga Vol. 3 or Taken: An Ethan Hunt Story.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    Just saying, this simple scene beats any of those shared between Bond and Vesper. Two individuals sharing a real moment.



    Better than

    "I'm the money." "Every penny of it!"

    "How was your lamb?" "Skewered!"


    "That's because you know what I can do with my little finger!"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    MI3 reminds me of TWINE, and not in a good way. I hope there's not too much sentimentality in the upcoming MI6 because as much as I like Cruise. I think he tends to overact these kind of scenes imho. Craig is much better.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Making it just a backstory gives it no real impact, though. We already had Julia sprung on us, so time had to be taken to explain her. People seem allergic to heroes actually having depth in an more emotional or personal way, but those elements can actually heighten a film and set of characters.

    If you have a character in a relationship that is never properly addressed, what's the point? It's why many films, including the Bonds, suffer. We're fed these ridiculously hideous pairings between Bond and women in a way that doesn't feel organic or sensible. The women become objects to gawk at, and not actual characters in their own right, and the connection they have with Bond feels phoned in as a response. The best of the films have Bond meeting with women who feel real, and their relationships feel more powerful because the movie takes the time to explain why the chemistry is there.

    MI could do this element better, but there's a place for Hunt having a partner, as it's an interesting side of him to explore. MI6 seems to be doing more of that, or at the very least looking at him at a more invasive, personal way than we've seen before. He'll hopefully become less action man, and more just...man.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2017 Posts: 8,452
    I think it was handled extremely well in the clip above. That sort of person remains guarded even when they are exposed. We have never seen Ethan Hunt more vulnerable.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I just don't know what that clip is selling me, really. It's a quiet moment, but it just amounts to one person saying "trust" over and over again and the other nodding with tears in their eyes. I think Cruise is a phenomenal actor, but in moments like the clip above he slips into the horrid, "You complete me" performance I like to see him stay away from. The corniness is too much. And comparing Julia and Ethan to Bond and his first love, well...let's be real. Ms. Monaghan is a nice gal and capable lead, but Ms. Green is a sex kitten and source of everlasting mystery and eloquence; a woman that women used to be. I believe that Bond loves her because I love her and it all feels genuine because of it.

    The issue with Ethan as a character is that in comparison to Craig's Bond, he's not as developed a man, and doesn't have as large an inner life. I can look at any scene Dan acts in and I'm instantly tuned into what Bond is doing and wondering what every move he makes means because I know the team put in the work to build him as a more human and reactive man with serious layers. The MI films don't convey that feeling, and that's all right, but if they're going into that territory more work needs to be done to make us actually care. I think Ethan is cool and I like seeing him fight his way out of bad situations with pragmatic thinking and resourcefulness, but like Bourne he's at times a shadow of a character. If this was the Brosnan era right now and we were getting Bond films like his alongside these films, I wouldn't be so hard on the franchises because they'd muddle together, but with Dan's Bond and the mission statement the team have with presenting Bond as a character and not a robotic superman, their approach outdoes others trying for the same thing. It's because I care about Bond, whereas the others I care more about watching. It's just not the same thing.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    And @Mendes, I don't remember the lines being performed with exclamation points(!).

    Surely you can make your point without exaggeration?

    And, oh, @bondjames is correct: DC is better in intimate scenes than TC... CR's shower scene alone....
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2017 Posts: 8,452
    Would you prefer I underlined them for emphasis?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Thanks @peter. I'm a bit sensitive to how these scenes come across on screen in this genre. I'm fine with schmaltz in other genres but in the spy/thriller arena I like a little subtlety. DC is indeed excellent at it and he also has the necessary natural machismo to be tender without it seeming sappy. Cruise, good though he is, always comes across a little over sentimental to me when he shows emotion on screen.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    I love the MI films 3, 4 and 5 . objectively one is better than the others in different areas. If pushed even further MI-3 remains my favorite.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    @Mendes, the lines you mentioned don't need emphasis; they weren't stated with an exclamation of any kind. Like I said, make your point without exaggeration. But in the end, much of what you say in relation to DC comes off more as "hit pieces".

    As @bondjames just stated, and I agree, TC can got a little OTT in his emotional scenes. Craig's much more subtle. And yes, he has the natural machismo to sell these scenes.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @bondjames, I agree, and I think that's the "You complete me" issue I sometimes have with Cruise in these kinds of scenes.

    This sort of thing is difficult to do in the spy genre, as the characters are already supposed to be very repressed and "in check" individuals, making it difficult to make them feel layered without going into crazy emotional territory, which might not suit the character they are written to be. As agents they have to be distant, and that sometimes makes it hard to have then suddenly fall in love with another.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Exactly right @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. Not only is it difficult to do but it's also difficult to sell convincingly to the audience. It requires a deft touch and is not to be attempted lightly imho. I thought CR was very impressive in this respect & I give everyone credit for being able to pull it off convincingly.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    MI1 great
    MI2 crap
    MI3 not as bad as 2
    MI4 excellent
    MI5 excellent
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,602
    The one big missed opportunity in MI3 is when Hunt breaks into the building in Shanghai. Just before that, Luther labels it as " Langley was a cakewalk compared to this." But we never see it. What we get instead is them babbling in the car about a missing cat or some crap.
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