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Mission: Impossible - films and tv series

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  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    TooManySomethings wrote: »
    It's strange, I'd say Rogue Nation is much more of an action movie, but Ghost Protocol is the better film by quite a bit.
    I think something similar goes also for the comparison MI vs Bond. The last two MI films had extremely entertaining pacing, and they succeed in stressing that Tom is doing his own stuntwork. In terms of character depth Bond has always been more impressive. In terms of overall style, hm, yes, SP kind of f*****d it up a bit.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Something that struck me in terms of comparing with Bond is that there are occasions where we are actually laughing at Hunt rather than with him (when he jumps over the BMW but still recovering from the underwater stunt for example). Happy to be corrected but I think this is a key difference between the tone of Bond v Hunt as I struggle to think of any examples where we are laughing at Bond. Bond is always in control. If he is not in control, then we are in a tense, thriller type scenario.

    This gives the script writers with Hunt more flexibility than with Bond and (perhaps) Hunt in a way is the stronger character as he can stand this and still have our respect where as Bond, I dont think this could ever happen.

    Interesting stuff.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,860
    Why couldn’t EON have gotten Mcquarrie sigh
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Something that struck me in terms of comparing with Bond is that there are occasions where we are actually laughing at Hunt rather than with him (when he jumps over the BMW but still recovering from the underwater stunt for example). Happy to be corrected but I think this is a key difference between the tone of Bond v Hunt as I struggle to think of any examples where we are laughing at Bond. Bond is always in control. If he is not in control, then we are in a tense, thriller type scenario.
    We used to laugh at Moore (MR & TSWLM in particular but also bits of TMWTGG). Cruise and McQuarrie definitely went for the old school Bond humour in the last one, and that's why it is my favourite of the series. Thor Ragnarok also evoked MR to me in its humour mixed with spectacle.

    You asked us to imagine Craig in the film earlier. I did, and for me it doesn't work. I can see Brosnan much better fitting the tone of MI-RN.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2018 Posts: 15,723
    @bondjames M:I-RN and GE are IMO similarly very fast-paced. For both I can't believe the Morocco car/bike chase (RN) and the tank chase (GE) are around the 1 hour & 20 minutes mark, meaning only around 40 minutes until the end credits.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    @DaltonCraig007, I always thought the Morocco car/bike chase was closer to the finish in RN. For me that's where the film peaks (the finale is so-so). I absolutely love every bit of that sequence. Just like the Opera one, it is just so well executed from start to finish.

    It's interesting that you mention GE, because Pierce (circa 1995 with the long hair) would have been perfect for RN imho. RN has the same light touch mixed with humour, action and suspense that GE has.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    @bondjames I agree that the RN final is not to the level of earlier scenes in the film (the opera sequence, the Morocco sequence) so that is an area in particular where GE trumps RN - Bond vs 006 is a sight to behold. But I'd say the same about MI:GP too, the final is much better than RN's, but that film still peaks before (the Moscow sequence and Dubai tower sequence). But you could say the same thing about quite a few Bond films (CR IMO, an amazing Bond film, but the Venice finale is not my favorite part of the film).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    @DaltonCraig007, I completely agree on CR. Honestly I don't enjoy watching anything past the ball breaker sequence. The whole romance shtick is a bit forced. GE is certainly one of the Bond films I'm hooked on until the very end because the fight is one of the best as you note and I always get a kick out of Alec's demise (not to mention Boris going nuts with his beloved computer).

    I'm not sure about others, but I think the final India sequence in MI-GP has Bond written all over it. It starts off in traditional MI fashion at the party but then segues into that highly inventive fight in the parking garage, which is something I could see the Bond team doing in its past (I always learned something about the world as a kid in earlier Bond films and I learned about those kind of parking garages and how they work from GP).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    @bondjames I definitely agree that the GP final is fantastic, but my 2 favorite parts in that film are the Kremlin (up to when Ethan and Brandt climb on the train) and the Dubai Tower sequences (including the chase in the sand storm). So the final isn't a let-down at all as I'm still very much glued to the screen, but my favorite sequences are found earlier in the film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree @DaltonCraig007. The Moscow escape in particular is somewhat overlooked, but I just love the way Hunt sees an opening and instinctively takes it to evade Sidorov. Pure class.The Dubai sequence is of course a legendary classic of tension mixed with humour (and once again I learned something similar to how it used to be in the old Bond films - namely that Dubai has brutal sandstorms).
  • noSolaceleftnoSolaceleft
    Posts: 1,162
    bondjames wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    You asked us to imagine Craig in the film earlier. I did, and for me it doesn't work. I can see Brosnan much better fitting the tone of MI-RN.

    I think a very contributing point to your perception ( which I absolutely share )is that Craig's portrayal of Bond is so completely free of self irony.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    The parking garage fight is a great example of fully exploiting (both via script and direction) something that is just there: part of our daily life. No extra sillyness was required re the setting to make it thrilling etc.
    Compare that to the CR Venice fight where Vesper's life was the stakes but that was not enough so they had to have the house floating on air bags etc. IMHO, Bond can learn alot from MI
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    noSolaceleft wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    You asked us to imagine Craig in the film earlier. I did, and for me it doesn't work. I can see Brosnan much better fitting the tone of MI-RN.

    I think a very contributing point to your perception ( which I absolutely share )is that Craig's portrayal of Bond is so completely free of self irony.
    That's certainly true of the last three films imho. I think it was there in CR for a bit (the Vesper scenes are where I felt it the most and those are the highlights of the film for me), but arguably not since.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    When I said to picture Craig in Cruise’s place there was also the stipulation that with obviously alterations. To be more specific, picture Craig in the action sequences, or MI’s set pieces within a Bond film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    When I said to picture Craig in Cruise’s place there was also the stipulation that with obviously alterations. To be more specific, picture Craig in the action sequences, or MI’s set pieces within a Bond film.
    I did. The scenes in question all work best (imho) with the humour attached to them. That's why I can more readily see Brosnan in them.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Fair enough, but, adapted to Craig, any of the sequences would have elevated his post CR films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    Fair enough, but, adapted to Craig, any of the sequences would have elevated his post CR films.
    Oh most definitely.

    I just think that Cruise plays those scenes with an almost 'everyman' quality. He often comes across as surprised and almost in over his head (it's in the humour) even as he does outlandish things. It's a nice mix of being a superman of sorts and still being relatable. That to me evokes Roger Moore the most but also Brosnan.

    "Hang on James!". "The thought had occurred to me" is the vibe I get.

    EDIT: To be fair, he's only done that in the last two MI flicks, and those are my favourites by far. In MI2 he was a machine and even though the stunts were out of this world for their time, I wasn't as connected to it. So I think he's being smart, because he realizes he's getting older and he's bringing the audience along with him as he ages. Now it makes the sequences more thrilling because he actually seems to be in genuine jeopardy as he does the 'impossible', unlike before.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    patb wrote: »
    Something that struck me in terms of comparing with Bond is that there are occasions where we are actually laughing at Hunt rather than with him (when he jumps over the BMW but still recovering from the underwater stunt for example). Happy to be corrected but I think this is a key difference between the tone of Bond v Hunt as I struggle to think of any examples where we are laughing at Bond. Bond is always in control. If he is not in control, then we are in a tense, thriller type scenario.

    This gives the script writers with Hunt more flexibility than with Bond and (perhaps) Hunt in a way is the stronger character as he can stand this and still have our respect where as Bond, I dont think this could ever happen.

    Interesting stuff.
    Good point, @patb. That scene with the BMW is a rare occasion of successfully making fun of the recklessness of the protagonist. At least one successful occasion in a Bond film that comes to my mind would be Connery in TB, when he says to Fiona Volpe, "You can´t win them all." And I love Dalton´s double take when he sees the new clothes of his "secretary" in LTK, but that moment might be up to debate.

  • patbpatb
    edited January 2018 Posts: 4,617
    @boldfinger The difference is that , with your example, the line comes from Bond, he is in on the joke (he has knowingly being funny) so he sees the humour. So we are laughing with him - it's self depricating humour.

    With Hunt - he was "out of it" he had no idea what the hell was going on. He had lost control and was trying to regain it and was just at the beginning of a tense and thrilling set piece. I need to watch it again as, on paper , it does not work but, on screen, it works great. At 40 secs: It's very brave writing to change the tone so quickly and it's exactly one of the reasons I don't like SP so its interesting.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    @boldfinger The difference is that , with your example, the line comes from Bond, he is in on the joke (he has knowingly being funny) so he sees the humour. So we are laughing with him - it's self depricating humour.

    With Hunt - he was "out of it" he had no idea what the hell was going on. He had lost control and was trying to regain it and was just at the beginning of a tense and thrilling set piece. I need to watch it again as, on paper , it does not work but, on screen, it works great. At 40 secs: It's very brave writing to change the tone so quickly and it's exactly one of the reasons I don't like SP so its interesting.

    As I mentioned earlier, they are just taking from the earlier Roger Moore Bond films. There were several instances when we laughed at him during the Hamilton, Gilbert and Glen years. The scenes were thrilling for their time, but the humour was injected to lighten the mood. They tried it with Craig in SP during the car chase (Frank Sinatra) but it didn't work as well. Cruise is a better fit for this kind of approach imho. One needs a light touch. The Opera sequence fight is another perfect example. He throws everything he has at the assailant and asks for a break to recuperate when he realizes the guy is too strong. That, to me, is reminiscent of Moore.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Reminiscent of Moore’s films while avoiding the over the top silliness,such as pigeons, Tarzan yells and Jaws flapping his arms, , that some find marred Sir Rog’s Bonds
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    talos7 wrote: »
    Reminiscent of Moore’s films while avoiding the over the top silliness,such as pigeons, Tarzan yells and Jaws flapping his arms, , that some find marred Sir Rog’s Bonds
    Indeed. Reminiscent of the better action sequences in the Moore films, and that means avoiding specific well known instances in MR & OP.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    @bondjames yes,that moment during the opera scene is really great. i wonder if it was originally scripted or put in during filming. Cruise just raises a hand, it's subtle and lasts for a fraction of a second but it's these things that turn a good scene into a great one.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    @bondjames yes,that moment during the opera scene is really great. i wonder if it was originally scripted or put in during filming. Cruise just raises a hand, it's subtle and lasts for a fraction of a second but it's these things that turn a good scene into a great one.
    It always brings a smile to my face. He didn't use to do that in the earlier films and this is the kind of thing that makes all the difference. Like I said, he's intentionally showing the everyman weariness in the last one. I also like the little nod he gives to the goon before being yanked out of the plane in the PTS and all the subtle cues between him and Ilsa in their intro torture scene.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    The more I think about it the more I admire and respect Cruise for his versatility as an actor. Although McQuarrie (and Bird no less) also had a huge influence on the humor working.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Indeed. And Bird paved the way in for it, which makes him the most solid addition to the franchise in my view. I do wish he comes back for another, though, if we're up for a more extravagant M:I film like the fourth one.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The world premiere may take place at Preikestolen, where the end scene is shot. One screening only.
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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    That whole opera scene is stunning. Posted a breakdown of it a while back that goes in-depth about how McQuarrie elevates it past a generic action sequence. Worth a viewing.
  • AlexanderWaverlyAlexanderWaverly
    Posts: 2,115
    I tend to favor the Brad Bird-directed film a bit more because it actually based key sequences on the original series -- in effect bigger, better versions of ideas originally used in the show. Also, for me, that was the first time the movie IMF really seemed like a team and not The Tom Cruise Show.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    AlexanderWaverly wrote: »
    I tend to favor the Brad Bird-directed film a bit more because it actually based key sequences on the original series -- in effect bigger, better versions of ideas originally used in the show. Also, for me, that was the first time the movie IMF really seemed like a team and not The Tom Cruise Show.
    +1
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