Which Bond film best captures Ian Fleming’s literary Bond?

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  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,333
    It's been a long while since I read any of the original books, but I used to feel that Dr No, FRWL and OHMSS best captured the literary Bond on film. Of course, there are going to be omissions from the printed page to the big screen due to the British Board of Film Censors at the time. Also there's a change in storyline for practical reasons to be considered, plus the difficulty of bringing Bond's internal monologue and making it work within the context of a film. Dalton used his eyes and expressive features to convey his inner discourse with often mixed results, sometimes verging on too theatrical at times. Whereas Connery relied on his deadpan delivery and natural boorish charm. The quips were a Connery inclusion and they work in the context of softening the impact of a brutal murder scene to appease the censors of the early 60's. Once the quips were established, they became part of the on screen character and were difficult to do away with after.

    We're now coming to another crucial milestone in the cinematic Bond cycle—a change in lead actor. I know some feel all the producers need to do is follow the Fleming literary template and all will be well in the universe again. I'm not so sure. For me and many countless others, Connery is still the definitive and cinematic template you set all your standards by.

    I should add that we're now living in neo-puritanical times that make the Victorians look progressive, never mind the strict movie censorship of the 60's, so accurately portraying Fleming's Bond, or Connery's Bond, will now face new hurdles and hardships that were once thought unimaginable.
  • Posts: 3,327
    bondsum wrote: »
    It's been a long while since I read any of the original books, but I used to feel that Dr No, FRWL and OHMSS best captured the literary Bond on film. Of course, there are going to be omissions from the printed page to the big screen due to the British Board of Film Censors at the time. Also there's a change in storyline for practical reasons to be considered, plus the difficulty of bringing Bond's internal monologue and making it work within the context of a film. Dalton used his eyes and expressive features to convey his inner discourse with often mixed results, sometimes verging on too theatrical at times. Whereas Connery relied on his deadpan delivery and natural boorish charm. The quips were a Connery inclusion and they work in the context of softening the impact of a brutal murder scene to appease the censors of the early 60's. Once the quips were established, they became part of the on screen character and were difficult to do away with after.

    We're now coming to another crucial milestone in the cinematic Bond cycle—a change in lead actor. I know some feel all the producers need to do is follow the Fleming literary template and all will be well in the universe again. I'm not so sure. For me and many countless others, Connery is still the definitive and cinematic template you set all your standards by.

    I should add that we're now living in neo-puritanical times that make the Victorians look progressive, never mind the strict movie censorship of the 60's, so accurately portraying Fleming's Bond, or Connery's Bond, will now face new hurdles and hardships that were once thought unimaginable.

    Agree with pretty much all of this. I hope Bond 26 gives us an actor that embodies Connery's natural characteristics, mannerisms, tough macho charisma and humour, and a script that relies heavily on unused Fleming.

    This is the perfect blend.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    bondsum wrote: »
    I should add that we're now living in neo-puritanical times that make the Victorians look progressive, never mind the strict movie censorship of the 60's, so accurately portraying Fleming's Bond, or Connery's Bond, will now face new hurdles and hardships that were once thought unimaginable.

    Of course we're not. Bond films alone have become more graphic and even more sweary over the years.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    in a way, it’s like how some noir films have protagonists whose moral values are quite ambiguous, and could seem generally unlikeable at times.
    Yes, definitely. Connery was a heroic protagonist without being a White Hat.

  • Posts: 526
    I’ve been reading a lot on the net about the subject. It seems that most articles, blogs, commentaries I.e. have Dalton as the most Fleming Bond. Several mentions for Lazenby.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I’ve been reading a lot on the net about the subject. It seems that most articles, blogs, commentaries I.e. have Dalton as the most Fleming Bond. Several mentions for Lazenby.

    I rank Dalton number 1 too. He may not be the best cinematic version (that mantle belongs undisputedly to Connery), but for capturing Fleming, no one else comes close. He had the whole package of the literary character, the looks and the acting ability to pull it off.

    And more importantly, Dalton was a huge fan of the books. It was his main focus and desire to capture the Fleming books again, and this is reflected in both his movies.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Yes, when I re-read the books these days, I'm almost always visualising Dalton as Bond.
  • I think different actors best captured different sides of Fleming’s Bond. Dalton perfectly plays the Bond of the TLD short story, the cynical and weary assassin. But he is more cold and ruthless than I thought the Bond in the novels was. Craig I think nailed the emotional vulnerability. The bathroom mirror scene in CR reminds me a lot of Bond staring at his hands at the airport in GF. But he’s not as physically vulnerable, he’s a much more modern action hero. Connery embodied the character perfectly, but he was always so ridiculously cool and larger than life, which is never how I picture Fleming’s Bond. Maybe my opinion has been coloured by that commissioned illustration, but whenever I read the books, I picture Bond as much more of a typical upper class English gentleman than the cinematic versions of the character. Connery was rougher and had more swagger.

    Lazenby is the only one who I can picture when I’m reading the novels. Which as others has said, is probably more down to the film he got, to be fair. But Fleming has never been the be all and end all for me (maybe because I came to the books late, after years of watching the films) so I don’t mean what I said above critically. Dalton and Craig are my favourite Bonds, despite not really matching the character I see when I’m reading the books. And the series never would’ve taken off if Connery hadn’t made it so cool, I think that was a change for the better. I like different takes on it.
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I should add that we're now living in neo-puritanical times that make the Victorians look progressive, never mind the strict movie censorship of the 60's, so accurately portraying Fleming's Bond, or Connery's Bond, will now face new hurdles and hardships that were once thought unimaginable.

    Of course we're not. Bond films alone have become more graphic and even more sweary over the years.

    Yeah but Bond can’t be sexist and racist like he was in the 50s anymore. PC gone mad.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    To me, it's a tossup between FRWL & LTK. The former is a very faithful story adaptation, the latter has the closest Bond...
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    To me, it's a tossup between FRWL & LTK. The former is a very faithful story adaptation, the latter has the closest Bond...

    I disagree on LTK. It’s my favourite Bond film, but what I find interesting about it is that I actually don’t think Bond is very close to the books at all.

    I used to think the same, that Dalton was the closest. But the more I read and reread the novels, the less I saw Fleming’s Bond as all that cold blooded. He lets Scaramanga pray when he should execute him, he says he never killed in cold blood (or something along those lines) in FRWL, we see him struggling with the murder of that hitman in GF, which Connery just quipped about in the film. He’s hard, and he has his fair share of cold moments, but he’s not ruthless, imo. And I think the TLD short story illustrates this perfectly, with him sparing the sniper.

    Dalton played that Bond perfectly in TLD. But what I love about his Bond in LTK is how they took it a step further, and had Bond snap in a way that Fleming’s character never did. I think Bond is colder and more brutal in that film than he was in any of the novels. It’s not Fleming imo, because I don’t think Fleming’s Bond ever would’ve snapped like that. Even after Tracy, he was just depressed. He took the opportunity for revenge when he saw it, sure, but he didn’t go off on a ruthless rampage looking for Blofeld. But that’s what Dalton’s Bond did in LTK. He went looking for that chance of revenge. He sacrifices his career and storms into an American 80s action movie, betraying M and even indirectly getting those fellow MI6 agents killed in the process, all for the sake of revenge. I think Bond was in uncharted territory with LTK, and that’s why I love it.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited November 2021 Posts: 693
    @thelivingroyale
    To be fair, in LALD (the book) Felix only gets mauled by the shark while in LTK Sanchez's men also rape and murder his wife. Bond's personal mission was pretty justified, as he wasn't just getting revenge for Felix but also for Della, since Felix wouldn't be able to do it himself.
  • Posts: 3,333
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I should add that we're now living in neo-puritanical times that make the Victorians look progressive, never mind the strict movie censorship of the 60's, so accurately portraying Fleming's Bond, or Connery's Bond, will now face new hurdles and hardships that were once thought unimaginable.

    Of course we're not. Bond films alone have become more graphic and even more sweary over the years.
    Of course, I wasn't referring to more exposed flesh or swearing, or even more blood in a movie. I was referencing what was allowed to fly in Fleming's books without being interpreted as "absurd misogynistic fantasies" (The Guardian) and their transition to the big screen.
    Agree with pretty much all of this. I hope Bond 26 gives us an actor that embodies Connery's natural characteristics, mannerisms, tough macho charisma and humour, and a script that relies heavily on unused Fleming.

    This is the perfect blend.
    Cheers @jetsetwilly. At least you get what I was trying to convey.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    slide_99 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale
    To be fair, in LALD (the book) Felix only gets mauled by the shark while in LTK Sanchez's men also rape and murder his wife. Bond's personal mission was pretty justified, as he wasn't just getting revenge for Felix but also for Della, since Felix wouldn't be able to do it himself.
    Yes, Felix might have been fair game in that world, but Della was an innocent. I think he was doing more for her than for Felix...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    I should add that we're now living in neo-puritanical times that make the Victorians look progressive, never mind the strict movie censorship of the 60's, so accurately portraying Fleming's Bond, or Connery's Bond, will now face new hurdles and hardships that were once thought unimaginable.

    Of course we're not. Bond films alone have become more graphic and even more sweary over the years.
    Of course, I wasn't referring to more exposed flesh or swearing, or even more blood in a movie. I was referencing what was allowed to fly in Fleming's books without being interpreted as "absurd misogynistic fantasies" (The Guardian) and their transition to the big screen.

    So you characterise the progressive as regressive. A bit silly.
  • I can’t really think of anything from the books that wouldn’t fly today that I’d actually want to see to be honest. Bond is still a killer, still a womaniser, still a snob, still a bastard. I know NTTD softened him up a bit, but that was the end to Craig’s era, where he finally grew up. I’m sure next time he’ll be back to normal.

    I know there’s always the odd article moaning about what a relic Bond is, but I think as ever, that’s the internet amplifying the voices of a minority. The films are still doing very well, and the important parts of the character have always stayed the same imo, even as the world changes, so I don’t see why that’d be any different now. He’s just not slapping women around or making racist or sexist comments anymore, which surely is a good thing? The only change I can think of that could be taken as puritanical is the lack of smoking in the new films. But that change happened a while ago. And as someone who would’ve been treated as a second class citizen in Fleming’s day, not being able to see James Bond smoke a cigarette seems like a worthy trade off for the progress we’ve made for me. Give me the woke modern world any day.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    @thelivingroyale
    To be fair, in LALD (the book) Felix only gets mauled by the shark while in LTK Sanchez's men also rape and murder his wife. Bond's personal mission was pretty justified, as he wasn't just getting revenge for Felix but also for Della, since Felix wouldn't be able to do it himself.
    Yes, Felix might have been fair game in that world, but Della was an innocent. I think he was doing more for her than for Felix...

    Oh yeah, I’m not saying it was out of the blue or random. The film gives him real reason to snap, and him finally killing Sanchez is insanely cathartic. I just can’t imagine Fleming’s Bond defying M and storming off on a one man mission like that. He just didn’t seem like that sort of character to me (again not a criticism though, I prefer Dalton’s take).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    I can’t really think of anything from the books that wouldn’t fly today that I’d actually want to see to be honest. Bond is still a killer, still a womaniser, still a snob, still a bastard. I know NTTD softened him up a bit, but that was the end to Craig’s era, where he finally grew up. I’m sure next time he’ll be back to normal.

    I know there’s always the odd article moaning about what a relic Bond is, but I think as ever, that’s the internet amplifying the voices of a minority. The films are still doing very well, and the important parts of the character have always stayed the same imo, even as the world changes, so I don’t see why that’d be any different now. He’s just not slapping women around or making racist or sexist comments anymore, which surely is a good thing? The only change I can think of that could be taken as puritanical is the lack of smoking in the new films. But that change happened a while ago. And as someone who would’ve been treated as a second class citizen in Fleming’s day, not being able to see James Bond smoke a cigarette seems like a worthy trade off for the progress we’ve made for me. Give me the woke modern world any day.

    Yes, if folks are watching these films just to see someone say that 'homosexuals can't whistle' then I think they're missing the point a bit. Your point about cigarettes is a great one: he packed that in around 1970. He had an occasional cigar after that, and fell off the cigarette wagon in '87 for two films, but that was it. If you don't like Bond changing in the modern world then you have to go back to 1971 and get angry about it.

    (Vaguely interesting fact: Casino Royale is the first Bond film where no-one at all smokes)
  • Posts: 1,078
    mtm wrote: »
    (Vaguely interesting fact: Casino Royale is the first Bond film where no-one at all smokes)

    Ironic when you think of the first line of the novel.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,394
    Heh, good point.
  • Posts: 1,078
    I've said before, I rarely see a Bond actor when I read the books. In my mind's eye, the Bond of the books looks more like the guy from the newspaper series, was it the Daily Express?
    I started a complete re-read in March last year, and I'm on Thunderball now, (one novel every few months, if you read them one after another they melt into one, so I read a few books in between each Bond).
    Anyway, the screen Bond actor that is closest to the books is Connery in Dr No, FRWL, TB and the Laz in OHMSS. Simply because the films are so close to the books. Dalton in TLD does embody the book Bond's traits, but it's the eighties and he's wearing casual eighties jackets and he's actually more cheery than I imagine the book Bond. I dunno. Dalton came after the Moore era, and we (Fleming fans) were all a little celebratory that Fleming's Bond was back. But looking at them now, I'm not sure I see him as the same assassin that reflected in a double bourbon at the start of the Goldfinger novel, (my favourite Fleming chapter).
  • Posts: 3,327
    chrisisall wrote: »
    To me, it's a tossup between FRWL & LTK. The former is a very faithful story adaptation, the latter has the closest Bond...

    I would agree with this, although OHMSS is a contender too.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 3,327
    chrisisall wrote: »
    To me, it's a tossup between FRWL & LTK. The former is a very faithful story adaptation, the latter has the closest Bond...

    I disagree on LTK. It’s my favourite Bond film, but what I find interesting about it is that I actually don’t think Bond is very close to the books at all.

    I used to think the same, that Dalton was the closest. But the more I read and reread the novels, the less I saw Fleming’s Bond as all that cold blooded. He lets Scaramanga pray when he should execute him, he says he never killed in cold blood (or something along those lines) in FRWL, we see him struggling with the murder of that hitman in GF, which Connery just quipped about in the film. He’s hard, and he has his fair share of cold moments, but he’s not ruthless, imo. And I think the TLD short story illustrates this perfectly, with him sparing the sniper.

    Dalton played that Bond perfectly in TLD. But what I love about his Bond in LTK is how they took it a step further, and had Bond snap in a way that Fleming’s character never did. I think Bond is colder and more brutal in that film than he was in any of the novels. It’s not Fleming imo, because I don’t think Fleming’s Bond ever would’ve snapped like that. Even after Tracy, he was just depressed. He took the opportunity for revenge when he saw it, sure, but he didn’t go off on a ruthless rampage looking for Blofeld. But that’s what Dalton’s Bond did in LTK. He went looking for that chance of revenge. He sacrifices his career and storms into an American 80s action movie, betraying M and even indirectly getting those fellow MI6 agents killed in the process, all for the sake of revenge. I think Bond was in uncharted territory with LTK, and that’s why I love it.

    The revenge driven aspect isn't really Fleming, I agree. The only time Fleming really ventured into this territory was the last part of YOLT, when he discovers Shatterhand is really Blofeld, although I do recall moments throughout the novels when Bond is set to avenge someone or other for killing a person (or animal) or something else, even if its just a passing thought.

    But I think Bond going undercover to get close to Sanchez feels very Fleming to me, the way Bond acts throughout this movie (other than his rejection of M), the way he is deadly serious throughout, tough, ruthless, yet still finds time to smile to himself when chucking Sanchez's money out of the plane.

    When Dalton utters the line `You earned it, you keep it, old buddy', this is actually more badass even than anything Craig ever delivered (and he has his moments too).

    This is why I still rate LTK as the closest incarnation of Fleming on screen.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    FRWL, easily, followed by the first 1/3 of TLD.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    In my view, literary Bond changed and developed through the novels, tones shifted and so on, so I see the following films as capturing strong elements of Fleming:
    DN through TB & OHMSS... The Golden Era... So close to the era in which Fleming wrote, so styles and behaviors were likely close to parallel.
    LALD: something about Moore's portrayal that captures Fleming Bond... I think it's his innate confidence mixed with spell-binding charm.
    Flashes of tone can be seen/felt in FYEO and OP.
    TLD: thanks to the script and Dalton's end of the rope portrayal (although as I always feel with Dalton: I wish he enjoyed the more hedonistic side of the character; I wish he sauntered into a casino and didn't look so wound up (as I perceived him in LTK); enjoy winning hands at the tables, and feeling the challenge when losing; really savor the alcohol and relish the women)
    LTK: apart from the production values, the LALD & TMWTGG nods, Dalton seemed more relaxed (and therefore more conniving) in his scenes with Davi's Sanchez, elevated the visuals and gave the over all film a Fleming-type tone...
    CR-SF and NTTD: I feel that Craig fleshed out what Fleming started: the idea that this spy was originally an orphan... Mixed with the blunt instrument, I feel that Craig's three dimensional tender side was born from his childhood. He's certainly the Bond that also comes closest to being the tough exterior assassin, with a soft inner self who has an instinct to protect women with a broken wing (as Molony more or less described him)... And there seems to be something a little more mythological about him (especially because of NTTD), in the same sense as Fleming's characters see Bond as being akin to St.George
  • Posts: 2,161
    Not a bad assessment. I would marry Moore's performance in TMWTGG to his in LALD. Not the world around him, but Bond himself.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited November 2021 Posts: 18,273
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Not a bad assessment. I would marry Moore's performance in TMWTGG to his in LALD. Not the world around him, but Bond himself.

    Yes, I was thinking that myself. TMWTGG might be Moore's best Bond performance over all in his films. It's just a pity that it's rather wasted in a film like TMWTGG.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Not a bad assessment. I would marry Moore's performance in TMWTGG to his in LALD. Not the world around him, but Bond himself.

    Yes, I was thinking that myself. TMWTGG might be Moore's best Bond performance over all in his films. It's just a pity that it's rather wasted in a film like TMWTGG.

    Yes, TMWTGG is definitely Moore's most Flemingesque performance, and FYEO is his most Fleming movie.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,273
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Not a bad assessment. I would marry Moore's performance in TMWTGG to his in LALD. Not the world around him, but Bond himself.

    Yes, I was thinking that myself. TMWTGG might be Moore's best Bond performance over all in his films. It's just a pity that it's rather wasted in a film like TMWTGG.

    Yes, TMWTGG is definitely Moore's most Flemingesque performance, and FYEO is his most Fleming movie.

    Yes, agreed on both points. I think him being that bit younger (relative to FYEO) makes his performance in TMWTGG that bit more Flemingesque. It also helps that he plays the role with an uncharacteristic harder edge and a rare degree of slight unlikability throughout.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Yes, that is actually very true @Birdleson , @Dragonpol and @jetsetwilly ... There are great Flemingesque moments in Moore's TMWTGG performance... I love the scene where he's checking Anders bag after she's been assassinated and he "play-talks" to her, as well as to his neighbor who has just sat down beside him. We see a lot of quick flashes of his mood when he discovers that this neighbor is actually Scaramanga (and there's anger as he quickly tries to draw his Walther), and how he swallows his defeat when it's revealed that Nic Nac is behind him with a gun.
  • Posts: 12,467
    OHMSS and FRWL are more faithful than the others by miles. I think they did an impressive job capturing the Fleming spirit though to some extent in most of the movies, with Brosnan’s era being most far removed.
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