No Time To Die: Why It Should Not Have Been Made (The Way It Was)

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  • Posts: 1,092
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Basically, CR gave the opportunity to make a sort of conceptual framework in which all th Bond-stories are set between CR and NTTD, including the future ones.

    No, CR-NTTD is clearly its own separate continuity. There's no way to square it with anything that came before. Everything that happened to Craig's Bond is accounted for in those movies.
    So I honenstly hope they won't come up with another reboot, but just a 'standard'Bond story like GE to introduce the new guy.

    Another reboot is a given. It's what all the franchises are doing, and EON really doesn't know how to do anything else but copy others at this point.

    you mean they're going with the times, like they've always done? ;-)

    This is very true, at least since the70s. Before that, Bond set the standard for (mostly) all other franchises to follow.
  • The_Reaper wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The Nomi character was an insufferable b*tch the entire film; I absolutely hated her because all she did was piss on other characters and act like she was God's greatest gift to the universe but at least Bond gave it back to her most of the time and didn't sit back and take it like a p*ssy

    The guy who said “this anti white male garbage deserves to fail” before he’d even seen the film found the black woman insufferable? Oh wow, what a surprise, didn’t see that coming.

    Why are you wasting your time watching James Bond anyway mate? Shouldn’t you be prepping your doomsday bunker for when the “hordes of anti-whites” come for you?
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Implying that Q was gay... what did that accomplish, exactly? So stupid...

    I think it achieved a lot. Added a bit more character to Q, and gave a brilliant actor who’s made the role his own a chance to bring a bit of his own identity to it, while simultaneously pissing off the tragic incel types and bitter old men who get irrationally angry over seeing anyone different to them on screen (remember everyone, straight white men are normal, but you need a good reason to include any other demographics or it’s “forced/pandering”). Loved it.

    The film was not as antiwhite as it might have been so that's good. They focused mostly on the story of Craig Bond and it was hit or miss overall.

    So pissing off White men is a good thing to you? That means you are antiwhite; good to know where you stand. The whole "straight White men are normal" is bad thing is also part of the antiwhite narrative. You are sick, my friend, and need to cure yourself of this mental prison you are in.

    Yeah mate you’ve got me, I’m anti-white. Part of the horde you were on about. I even went as far as marrying a white woman as part of my cover. And now we’re coming for you, look out.
    IMO, no one should ever make a creative decision "to make the fans happy". Also, I would dare to say that most people probably are happy with NTTD and it's ending, and that it's a vocal minority of a subset of Bond fans that are extremely unhappy with NTTD.

    Yeah I think pandering to fans is usually a recipe for disaster anyway, and I’m not even sure how you’d go about it with Bond fans, because it’s such a broad church of different people who want different things. Even now, in the detractor camp, you’ve got people who are annoyed for different reasons. Some hate NTTD for deviating from Fleming and want another CR. Others hate it because they’re sick of the Craig era’s heavier tone and want a return to Moore/Brosnan style fun. Both groups don’t like NTTD, but for different reasons, and both have quite different ideas of how to “fix” things next time.

    At the end of the day they’ll never be able to please all of us, so I think they’re better off just blocking all that noise out and commiting to whatever vision they have.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 1,092
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The Nomi character was an insufferable b*tch the entire film; I absolutely hated her because all she did was piss on other characters and act like she was God's greatest gift to the universe but at least Bond gave it back to her most of the time and didn't sit back and take it like a p*ssy

    The guy who said “this anti white male garbage deserves to fail” before he’d even seen the film found the black woman insufferable? Oh wow, what a surprise, didn’t see that coming.

    Why are you wasting your time watching James Bond anyway mate? Shouldn’t you be prepping your doomsday bunker for when the “hordes of anti-whites” come for you?
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Implying that Q was gay... what did that accomplish, exactly? So stupid...

    I think it achieved a lot. Added a bit more character to Q, and gave a brilliant actor who’s made the role his own a chance to bring a bit of his own identity to it, while simultaneously pissing off the tragic incel types and bitter old men who get irrationally angry over seeing anyone different to them on screen (remember everyone, straight white men are normal, but you need a good reason to include any other demographics or it’s “forced/pandering”). Loved it.

    The film was not as antiwhite as it might have been so that's good. They focused mostly on the story of Craig Bond and it was hit or miss overall.

    So pissing off White men is a good thing to you? That means you are antiwhite; good to know where you stand. The whole "straight White men are normal" is bad thing is also part of the antiwhite narrative. You are sick, my friend, and need to cure yourself of this mental prison you are in.

    Yeah mate you’ve got me, I’m anti-white. Part of the horde you were on about. I even went as far as marrying a white woman as part of my cover. And now we’re coming for you, look out.
    IMO, no one should ever make a creative decision "to make the fans happy". Also, I would dare to say that most people probably are happy with NTTD and it's ending, and that it's a vocal minority of a subset of Bond fans that are extremely unhappy with NTTD.

    Well, there are plenty of White antiwhites so what does that matter? I'm not White, I'm Hispanic (Mexican father), but care about Westernkind and its survival, for the entire world is harmed by antiwhitism.

    You are also good at using logical fallacies in your posts, so there's that. You created a straw man when you implied I hated Nomi solely because of her race; not what I said at all, hence a straw man fallacy. In addition, attacking me about some imaginary bunker I don't have is an example of an ad hominem. Two in one post! Well done, sir.

    For anyone that doesn't believe Craig's run is problematic for Western Civilization consider they have:

    -White erased Felix Leiter
    -White erased Moneypenny
    -Implied the White erasure of the 007 position with the character of Nomi

    Erasing a race from existence is immoral and thus I am against it happening. This series is massively popular across the world and these examples are harmful to the psychology of White people and causes White noir, depression, and a feeling of hopelessness for the future of their people.
  • Posts: 1,092
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »

    Yeah I think pandering to fans is usually a recipe for disaster anyway, and I’m not even sure how you’d go about it with Bond fans, because it’s such a broad church of different people who want different things. Even now, in the detractor camp, you’ve got people who are annoyed for different reasons. Some hate NTTD for deviating from Fleming and want another CR. Others hate it because they’re sick of the Craig era’s heavier tone and want a return to Moore/Brosnan style fun. Both groups don’t like NTTD, but for different reasons, and both have quite different ideas of how to “fix” things next time.

    At the end of the day they’ll never be able to please all of us, so I think they’re better off just blocking all that noise out and commiting to whatever vision they have.


    I agree with all of this, well said. All filmmakers should be free to fulfill their own vision without worrying about trends or simply following any political ideology. Bond should be about escapism and having fun at the theater.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    peter wrote: »
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?

    Yeah, these recent posts have been really troubling. “‘Straight white men as normal is bad’ is part of the anti-white narrative”, Jesus Christ… so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, lest we’re erasing the white race?

    Truly insidious.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited January 2022 Posts: 7,546
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The Nomi character was an insufferable b*tch the entire film; I absolutely hated her because all she did was piss on other characters and act like she was God's greatest gift to the universe but at least Bond gave it back to her most of the time and didn't sit back and take it like a p*ssy

    The guy who said “this anti white male garbage deserves to fail” before he’d even seen the film found the black woman insufferable? Oh wow, what a surprise, didn’t see that coming.

    Why are you wasting your time watching James Bond anyway mate? Shouldn’t you be prepping your doomsday bunker for when the “hordes of anti-whites” come for you?
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Implying that Q was gay... what did that accomplish, exactly? So stupid...

    I think it achieved a lot. Added a bit more character to Q, and gave a brilliant actor who’s made the role his own a chance to bring a bit of his own identity to it, while simultaneously pissing off the tragic incel types and bitter old men who get irrationally angry over seeing anyone different to them on screen (remember everyone, straight white men are normal, but you need a good reason to include any other demographics or it’s “forced/pandering”). Loved it.

    The film was not as antiwhite as it might have been so that's good. They focused mostly on the story of Craig Bond and it was hit or miss overall.

    So pissing off White men is a good thing to you? That means you are antiwhite; good to know where you stand. The whole "straight White men are normal" is bad thing is also part of the antiwhite narrative. You are sick, my friend, and need to cure yourself of this mental prison you are in.

    This is what I’m referring to in my previous post in case of any “that’s not what I said!” nonsense. Sorry for the DP.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I hear you @NickTwentyTwo ... And I'll add that apart from Reaper's paranoia, he also has a healthy dose of projection'itis as he accuses @thelivingroyale of being sick and needing help!!

    If his posts weren't so troubling, I'd almost laugh at him calling the level-headed thelivingroyale sick!
  • The_Reaper wrote: »
    In addition, attacking me about some imaginary bunker I don't have is an example of an ad hominem.

    Wait, you don’t have a bunker? Why not? It’s like you said before

    “Whites are less than 10% of the world's population (and shrinking every day) and when the hordes of anti-whites come for you I hope you are prepared.“

    Why aren’t you prepared yourself? I don’t think my fellow anti-whites will have taken kindly to you bravely revealing our evil plan on a James Bond forum.
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    You created a straw man when you implied I hated Nomi solely because of her race; not what I said at all

    Well you didn’t say it, no. Racists are usually smart enough not to nowadays. But even if you hadn’t decided the film was anti-white male garbage that deserves to fail and had killed the franchise as soon as you saw a black woman in the trailer, everything else you’ve posted has made it pretty obvious what sort of person you are.
  • Posts: 1,092
    peter wrote: »
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?

    Yeah, these recent posts have been really troubling. “‘Straight white men as normal is bad’ is part of the anti-white narrative”, Jesus Christ… so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, lest we’re erasing the white race?

    Truly insidious.

    Another straw man fallacy. Nice work.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    screen-5.jpg?fakeurl=1&type=.jpg
    Yep, projection.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    All that I can say is:

    "Don't fear the reaper."

  • Posts: 1,092
    peter wrote: »
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?

    Not at all and once again, this is a classic straw man fallacy. People can live wherever they wish. I am against all cultural erasure because it is immoral. Imagine erasing the character of Shaft by using an Asian man instead of a black man in the title role. It's wrong and it's wrong when it happens to White people.


    "People of color" is an antiwhite meme pathogen that excludes all White people. Also, I will repeat, I AM NOT WHITE.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @The_Reaper … keep on clicking on breitbart to feed your paranoia…
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?

    Yeah, these recent posts have been really troubling. “‘Straight white men as normal is bad’ is part of the anti-white narrative”, Jesus Christ… so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, lest we’re erasing the white race?

    Truly insidious.

    Another straw man fallacy. Nice work.

    Well it’s word for word what you said, so unless you yourself are made of straw…
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I agree that dividing people into two camps, isn t good.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I agree that dividing people into two camps, isn t good.

    Agreed... Rigid political lines isn't very appealing to me. As soon as the hard line is drawn in the sand, say goodbye to individual thoughts and expressions, and hello to group-think.

    The only time I enjoy teams is in sport.
  • Posts: 1,092
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?

    Yeah, these recent posts have been really troubling. “‘Straight white men as normal is bad’ is part of the anti-white narrative”, Jesus Christ… so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, lest we’re erasing the white race?

    Truly insidious.

    Another straw man fallacy. Nice work.

    Well it’s word for word what you said, so unless you yourself are made of straw…

    This is what you said: " so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, " which is NOT what I said. Where did I state everything else is abnormal? Please show me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    @The_Reaper .... By casting a film that represents the world we live in, is not white erasing. Man, my jaw dropped reading your post.

    In your eyes, when people of color move into your neighborhood and buy the home beside you that was once owned by a white person, is that also white erasing?

    Yeah, these recent posts have been really troubling. “‘Straight white men as normal is bad’ is part of the anti-white narrative”, Jesus Christ… so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, lest we’re erasing the white race?

    Truly insidious.

    Another straw man fallacy. Nice work.

    Well it’s word for word what you said, so unless you yourself are made of straw…

    This is what you said: " so we’re to say that straight and white is normal, and everything else is abnormal, " which is NOT what I said. Where did I state everything else is abnormal? Please show me.

    What else could saying "straight and white is normal" possibly mean?

    I'm not engaging in this any further.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    Let's cool it with the exaggeration and attacks, shall we? Yet again, as always, if you feel the pressing need to continue to attack one another, take it to PMs and keep things more civil here. Too many generalizations being thrown around and high tempers as a result.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,957
    Also, given certain PMs I've received, please, if you think someone is genuinely being racist or homophobic or what have you, flag it or reach out with why you think it's the case. If that's clearly the case, we'll be more than happy to act. But please, do so with certainty, not out of retaliation.

    In the meantime, anyone who wants to sneakily balance the line between not breaking rules while clearly sharing racist or homophobic thoughts that perhaps aren't blunt or obvious, we'll lose no sleep over instabanning you. This isn't a safe haven for such thoughts, as some seem to think, and we've instantly removed several loyal members in the past (even some with a high post count) for doing exactly that.
  • edited January 2022 Posts: 2,264
    Kind of upsetting that a Bond movie is causing this much of a divide between fans...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Also, given certain PMs I've received, please, if you think someone is genuinely being racist or homophobic or what have you, flag it or reach out with why you think it's the case. If that's clearly the case, we'll be more than happy to act. But please, do so with certainty, not out of retaliation.

    In the meantime, anyone who wants to sneakily balance the line between not breaking rules while clearly sharing racist or homophobic thoughts that perhaps aren't blunt or obvious, we'll lose no sleep over instabanning you. This isn't a safe haven for such thoughts, as some seem to think, and we've instantly removed several loyal members in the past (even some with a high post count) for doing exactly that.

    DMd
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2022 Posts: 24,155
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Also, given certain PMs I've received, please, if you think someone is genuinely being racist or homophobic or what have you, flag it or reach out with why you think it's the case. If that's clearly the case, we'll be more than happy to act. But please, do so with certainty, not out of retaliation.

    In the meantime, anyone who wants to sneakily balance the line between not breaking rules while clearly sharing racist or homophobic thoughts that perhaps aren't blunt or obvious, we'll lose no sleep over instabanning you. This isn't a safe haven for such thoughts, as some seem to think, and we've instantly removed several loyal members in the past (even some with a high post count) for doing exactly that.

    DMd

    Diet Mountain Dew?
    Kind of upsetting that a Bond movie is causing this much of a divide between fans...

    I don't think the movie is the cause of the divide; I think the tone of some of the discussions is. And even more than that, the fact that certain arguments carry different weights for different people has a lot to do with it too. Then again, it's always been that way, I'm sure. ;)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Also, given certain PMs I've received, please, if you think someone is genuinely being racist or homophobic or what have you, flag it or reach out with why you think it's the case. If that's clearly the case, we'll be more than happy to act. But please, do so with certainty, not out of retaliation.

    In the meantime, anyone who wants to sneakily balance the line between not breaking rules while clearly sharing racist or homophobic thoughts that perhaps aren't blunt or obvious, we'll lose no sleep over instabanning you. This isn't a safe haven for such thoughts, as some seem to think, and we've instantly removed several loyal members in the past (even some with a high post count) for doing exactly that.

    DMd

    Diet Mountain Dew?

    It's what I call water. Just reminding everyone to stay hydrated.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,175
    chrisisall wrote: »
    This is why they shouldn't have made this movie. It's wasting time & resources on a cash grab instead of furthering the legend of James Bond. And time is and has been a' wasting.
    Thoughts? Daggers? ;)

    I disagree with this assertion that they DIDN’T further the legend of James Bond. Whether he lived or died, his legendary status persists.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,155
    chrisisall wrote: »
    This is why they shouldn't have made this movie. It's wasting time & resources on a cash grab instead of furthering the legend of James Bond. And time is and has been a' wasting.
    Thoughts? Daggers? ;)

    I disagree with this assertion that they DIDN’T further the legend of James Bond. Whether he lived or died, his legendary status persists.

    Wait, legendary statuses are often built on a hero ticking off all the boxes in the stereotypical journey, and death is often included. Death is usually the ultimate apotheosis, the immortalization of the hero by moving on.

    Either way, I don't think it's true that the film didn't further the legend of Bond, for two reasons. A) There's no "legend" of Bond, in my opinion, there's the glamourous icon status. Bond isn't King Arthur, he's Mister Cool. Some Bond films do more to perpetuate the 'coolness' of Bond than others, but in the long run, he maintains a great deal of relevancy in today's pop culture. Several of my students (teenagers!) went to see NTTD and loved the film. At least from those few exchanges, I am encouraged to believe that it's not just us, old farts, who are still interested in Bond. Even today, during a lab session, I said, "Come on, guys, we have no time to lose!" A girl immediately smiled and said, "Or no time to DIE!"
    B) Whatever the films do further, be it the "legend" of Bond or something else, I'm sure NTTD is far from a lost cause. The COVID Bond, the second highest-grossing (non-Chinese) film of the year, the one with Billie's song, the final one with Craig, ... I don't see in what way this film failed at furthering something status-wise, while the likes of TND, TWINE, DAD, ... didn't.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    chrisisall wrote: »
    This is why they shouldn't have made this movie. It's wasting time & resources on a cash grab instead of furthering the legend of James Bond. And time is and has been a' wasting.
    Thoughts? Daggers? ;)

    I disagree with this assertion that they DIDN’T further the legend of James Bond. Whether he lived or died, his legendary status persists.

    But now the causal film-goers think of him as deceased. Next Bond that comes out I bet a sizable chunk of them will go "What? A new movie? He died! This is stupid." and just not see the film...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,155
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    This is why they shouldn't have made this movie. It's wasting time & resources on a cash grab instead of furthering the legend of James Bond. And time is and has been a' wasting.
    Thoughts? Daggers? ;)

    I disagree with this assertion that they DIDN’T further the legend of James Bond. Whether he lived or died, his legendary status persists.

    But now the causal film-goers think of him as deceased. Next Bond that comes out I bet a sizable chunk of them will go "What? A new movie? He died! This is stupid." and just not see the film...

    Come on, Chris. Remember 2006. "Fans are shocked over ugliest Bond ever!" "No explosions in the new Bond film, says effects guy!" We were frightened. CR was dooooomed!

    First trailer dropped...

    ... and one of the biggest Bonds ever happened.

    Don't worry. Today is yesterday's news tomorrow. NTTD? Forgotten about that. Was that the one with the octopus? Anyway, the new trailer looks AWESOME! Let's watch.

    We contemplate, discuss, gather and archive information... but most people don't care about the next Bond flick until... it happens. And then mum, dad and the kids grab the popcorn for the next 007. Because it's the "next" 007--who cares about the former 007? Cheer up, mate. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,175
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    This is why they shouldn't have made this movie. It's wasting time & resources on a cash grab instead of furthering the legend of James Bond. And time is and has been a' wasting.
    Thoughts? Daggers? ;)

    I disagree with this assertion that they DIDN’T further the legend of James Bond. Whether he lived or died, his legendary status persists.

    But now the causal film-goers think of him as deceased. Next Bond that comes out I bet a sizable chunk of them will go "What? A new movie? He died! This is stupid." and just not see the film...

    I seriously doubt this.

    But we’ll soon find out in the coming years.
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