No Time To Die: Why It Should Not Have Been Made (The Way It Was)

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Jeez, you'd swear none of you have seen 'DAD'!

    DAD has a pretty bad climax I admit mate, but it doesn't have past villains pictures blutacked to the side of the plane...

    Let's call it a tie...😁

    It had, but they didn't have the tape to keep them on the side of the CGI plane....
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,007
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Jeez, you'd swear none of you have seen 'DAD'!

    DAD has a pretty bad climax I admit mate, but it doesn't have past villains pictures blutacked to the side of the plane...

    Let's call it a tie...😁

    It had, but they didn't have the tape to keep them on the side of the CGI plane....

    Very good, but I meant the inside of the plane...😁
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    Graves was Iron Man before Iron Man
  • marcmarc Universal Exports
    Posts: 2,610
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    none of you have seen 'DAD'!

    Or 'GE' 🙂

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,413
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Needles to the brain? Mere pinpricks!

    Maybe it worked like acupuncture?

    Blofeld was just making stuff up to scare them. It was just painful, not crippling.

    Actually I read somewhere an interview with a neurologist who said it was possible what Blofeld said, but he got the location wrong in the film. So yea, it was just a very painful prick.
    Catching up on a helicopter by boat and then shooting it down with a handgun, however, is almost as bad as the Vanish.

    I always thought all they had to have done was have Q give Bond another gadget upgrade to his gun, like he did in SF. This time make it able to fire one explosive round, enough to blow open a door or something.
    It's kind of why Q is in these films, guys- to allow yourself a way to get out of these improbable things!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2022 Posts: 8,188
    SP’s climax isn’t great, but I can think of worst climaxes in the past:

    DAF. Tiffany suddenly loses brain cells and there’s no resolution, the climax simply stops and cuts away to the luxury ship.

    TMWTGG: The climax should have ended with Scaramang’s death, but instead it just keeps going with Goodnight shenanigans and a solex plot that should have just been scrapped entirely during the draft phase.

    TND: A lot of generic machine gunplay.

    TWINE: Watching Bond and Renard trying to hug each other to death.

    DAD: Brosnan surrounded by CGI monstrosity that is the collapsing plane, accompanied by Halle Berry. Only Toby Stephens is the one that’s fun to watch, “oh look, parachutes for the both of us!”

    QOS: Things blow up and Bond has a fight with the worst villain of the franchise.

    Honorable mention: FYEO. I dunno about you, but watching Roger Moore gingerly hammering a piton on a rock for ten minutes is not exactly the most exciting thing to watch. The footage of the stunt guy dropping is what saves it all.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    Personally I'm big on the climaxes for both QOS and FYEO.

    And I do think the climax of SP sucks, despite my love for it.
  • Posts: 12,473
    I love the climaxes to TMWTGG, QOS, and FYEO. The others I'll agree are all among the very weakest.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2022 Posts: 7,551
    I view Greene and Medrano similarly as Koskov and Whitaker. Sacrificing memorability because they're sharing villain duty, and the stories of both QOS and LTK, IMO, are less focused on any individual villainy.

    EDIT: TLD, embarrassing.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I never saw Medrano as a co-villain. He’s more a side henchman. Bond doesn’t even have a quarrel with him.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited February 2022 Posts: 7,551
    That's true. I suppose they don't ever interact.

    Kind of neat to have Bond and Camille on parallel quests for revenge. QOS was so great for what it was.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,413
    SP’s climax isn’t great, but I can think of worst climaxes in the past:

    DAF. Tiffany suddenly loses brain cells and there’s no resolution, the climax simply stops and cuts away to the luxury ship.

    Yes I can't even remember what happens in that climax, it's really dull. And worst of all for a Bond film: it looks horrible.
    Honorable mention: FYEO. I dunno about you, but watching Roger Moore gingerly hammering a piton on a rock for ten minutes is not exactly the most exciting thing to watch. The footage of the stunt guy dropping is what saves it all.

    I must admit I usually stop watching before the end of FYEO; it doesn't really do it for me. I find it a bit dry.

    SP's one is at least quite snappy and quick compared to those: he shoots a helicopter, it crashes, he chats to Blofeld and walks off. Done and dusted.


    On the other hand, I don't mind TND's at all. It works as a climax and is quite exciting. That machine guns are used has never upset me.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    There are some great shots in the London climax. I love the dark moody feeling… to me it feels like the specter of the organization is looming over the city.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I'd also say, conceptually, Blofeld blowing up MI6 with Bond inside it is a pretty cool idea.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I always say this, they should have had Bond fighting Hinx in the ruins if MI6 as the bomb was counting down. Such a simple idea that would have made the climax leagues better than what it was.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I agree on DAF's climax since it just ends and seems unfinished. But that is the only one that is of similar uncreativity. In SP the whole third act starting from the torture scene ist such a mess. Bond Just shooting the entire Spectre agents with a gun is so unexciting. And then it is even getting worse when they return to London....

    FYEO has a very good climax. That rock climbing scene ist absolutely amasing and it has one of the best stunts in the series ....
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I always say this, they should have had Bond fighting Hinx in the ruins if MI6 as the bomb was counting down. Such a simple idea that would have made the climax leagues better than what it was.

    Such a simple fix that would've made it a lot more dangerous and intense, yet one I hadn't even thought of until I saw it mentioned here. With the way Hinx seems indestructible, you'd think they could've taken that route on the train exit and had him return once more, at least.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2022 Posts: 8,188
    If only they made it less obvious that Moore was hanging in front of a curtain in a soundstage. In fact the infiltration to the base looked like soundstage. I think it’s only when Kristatos dies that the actors are finally out location shooting
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Yes it's a shame they didn't just build that winch shed set outside. Shooting exteriors indoors never really works.

    They just about get away with it in the climax to CR because the piazza is shadowed from the sun.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Have to say, I like that SP's third act is at night in a largely deserted London.
    The execution could've been better, but I do like the setting.
    But, yes, Hinx should definitely have returned to the ruins of MI6. Baffles me how it doesn't even seem to have occurred to anyone - not Logan, not Mendes, not P & W, not the Sony and MGM execs who were chipping in ideas all through the leaked emails, none of em. Talk about an oversight. Once it's occurred to you, you can't unsee it - it would've immediately elevated that whole sequence. I like SP for what it is - but there's so many missed opportunities.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    I wonder if Hinx was really busy, and that affected any kind of decision making that way? I know he had to phone in his “Shit” line but obviously they wouldn’t have flown him in for that anyways), and if memory serves it seemed like he was in quite a bit of stuff around that time like Blade Runner and GotG and stuff.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    I wonder if Hinx was really busy, and that affected any kind of decision making that way? I know he had to phone in his “Shit” line but obviously they wouldn’t have flown him in for that anyways), and if memory serves it seemed like he was in quite a bit of stuff around that time like Blade Runner and GotG and stuff.

    I can't imagine they wouldn't have been able to get him back for a day or two.
    The problem with Bond on a speedboat chasing a helicopter is exactly that. How slow and low did that helicopter need to fly to stay in range of a handgun? It just doesn't make sense. It would even have been better if bond had found the jetpack in the ruins over that speedboat. At least he'd actually have been able to catch up.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,584
    Everyone is being so mean to my beloved Spectre! :'(
    I like it enough, but it's at the bottom of my list. Didn't have an issue with the finale though.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    GBF wrote: »
    I agree on DAF's climax since it just ends and seems unfinished. But that is the only one that is of similar uncreativity. In SP the whole third act starting from the torture scene ist such a mess. Bond Just shooting the entire Spectre agents with a gun is so unexciting. And then it is even getting worse when they return to London....

    FYEO has a very good climax. That rock climbing scene ist absolutely amasing and it has one of the best stunts in the series ....

    I've never understood why the DAF oil rig battle just...ends. Is it:

    1. They did not want to go over budget and pay Connery the massive overtime so they just stopped filming, or:
    2. They wanted to leave Blofeld's ultimate fate unknown?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    In the script Bond was supposed to chase Blofeld’s sub to a salt mine and kill him once and for all. I think the filmmakers backed out of that specifically so they could save Blofeld for future films. When Mankiewicz did commentary for SUPERMAN II, he compared not killing Lex Luthor to not killing Blofeld. And for TSWLM they did consider bringing Blofeld back for that until McClory butted in.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Yes, I understand that but I am wondering what they were thinking--at the time of filming DAF, not later.

    I'm guessing they wanted to give Connery's Bond the final catharsis of killing Blofeld but also realized that they might need Blofeld in the future, especially with Connery gone. Hence the muddled climax.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    That’s what I mean, I think they came to that decision of not killing Blofeld during production in order to reserve him for future films, which is why the killing of Blofeld was ultimately not filmed.

    Would have been interesting if they did film it like they filmed Mr White’s death in QOS.
  • Posts: 1,917
    mtm wrote: »
    SP's one is at least quite snappy and quick compared to those: he shoots a helicopter, it crashes, he chats to Blofeld and walks off. Done and dusted.

    Wait, you are okay with that? This is Blofeld, the villain most associated with Bond, Bond's arch enemy, the villain fans pleaded to come back, the one Eon wanted to bring back into the fold and fought to get the rights back for and the climactic confrontation is this: ridiculous shot, the copter coming down, a limp dialogue exchange and have the police take him away like the ending of a Batman '66 part 2 episode?

    I find it one of the most unengaging and wasted opportunities in the entire series. The least they could've done was have the copter crash into the river or someplace remote and had him escape.

    One thing SP at least does do is show Blofeld being escorted away and having that closure. What was it in OHMSS and DAF where they figure Blofeld is defeated and not going back after him? Lazenby's Bond is more interested in having a drink. DAF of course cut a lot of material as the rig was set to explode by a demolitions team. I guess Bond figured Blofeld would be incinerated by the blast while stuck hanging in the bathosub. Then again, if Bond and Tiffany merely dove off the rig, they'd be in pretty bad shape when it went off unless Leiter picked them up with the winch hook from TB. So many questions, foreshadowing the film that would come 50 years later.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    At least they gave Craig the distinction of actually killing Blofeld, which Connery only (sort of) got in the PTS, which is satisfying in its own weird way, much like DAF as a whole.

    I like how Lazenby dispatched Blofeld. He did seem like he was dead.

    But Blofeld was built up as a much more substantial adversary in the Connery-Lazenby era.
  • Posts: 1,917
    echo wrote: »
    At least they gave Craig the distinction of actually killing Blofeld, which Connery only (sort of) got in the PTS, which is satisfying in its own weird way, much like DAF as a whole.

    I like how Lazenby dispatched Blofeld. He did seem like he was dead.

    But Blofeld was built up as a much more substantial adversary in the Connery-Lazenby era.

    Yes, I agree with Craig's Bond getting that closure and being able to use one of Fleming's lines in doing so was satisfying.

    Another thought that occurred thinking about the climax of OHMSS was where was Bundt when Piz Gloria was invaded? Was she in hiding and got out or was she out getting the Angels of Death established? One can't help but wonder.

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