No Time To Die: Why It Should Not Have Been Made (The Way It Was)

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Seriously, folks: Craig's tenure as Bond has been largely ruled by a philosophy of "We've never tried that before, let's do it NOW." And that's a valid path to take.

    If anything that's new is valid, they might as well have him sprout wings, turn green and sing Venus in Furs whilst flying over the Moon.

    Not that I wouldn't put it past them these days.

    Or just make him bisexual.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    No, that was Lazenby. The bastard.

    That guy just can't stop it, can he?


    anyway, back to your more serious point, I understand the way you look at it, and it is a valid point. Why kill off a character that's been around for so long. For me it works as to me the Bond-films are more like sagas. 'let me tell you about..' stories that are about a character that may or may not have existed, and may or may not comprise different (real) people, like Bond himself was a composition made by Fleming based on himself, people he knew and missions thay'd done for real. Biggles is another example of such a character. Fleming himself construed a rather impossible comeback for Bond after YOLT (the book). And yes, it fits the story. It also fits the character of Bond, protecting the ones he loves (and his country, and the world) by paying the ultimate price, something Bond muses about several times in the books. Knowing that 00s 'have a very short life expectancy'.



  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Alternate opening to NTTD.

    Cold open, no gun barrel. Bond (Craig) driving the DB5, with Madeline in the passenger seat, along a scenic road. They exit a tunnel, the road ahead blocked, as Bond hits the breaks and swerves, machine gun fire rakes the side of the DB5. the car swerves off the road, down a steep embankment, hits a boulder, and rolls, side over, down the hill, coming to a crunching stop against a tree. Several pairs of feet scurry down the hill to the steaming, battered wreck of the DB5. A man wrenches the drivers door open. A woman's voice (Isabelle Huppert, later to be revealed as Irma Bunt) says: "Leave the woman, it's the man I want.'. As Bond is pulled from the wreck, his head lolls into view, his face covered by a bright golden glow. When the glow subsides, it's now Aidan Turner. Cue gun barrel, and then the title sequence.


    Hey, it's never been done in Bond before....
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,970
    So then Aidan dies on the island, meaning his era is over, and they'll recast in a reboot for Bond 26?

    I'm down ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Denbigh wrote: »
    So then Aidan dies on the island, meaning his era is over, and they'll recast in a reboot for Bond 26?

    I'm down ;)

    Yes, I like it, I like it. Bond dies/regenerates (take your pick) at the beginning and end.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,427
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Craig used his role as Bond to turn himself into an A-list megastar. He knew he could leverage his popularity to demand a heap of money for continually coming back to the role, and he did just that. I don't blame him, he's clearly a good businessman, but he comes off as someone who used the franchise for his own benefit as opposed to someone who played the role because he genuinely enjoyed it, as with Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan.

    What on earth is that based on?
    None of the others bothered to become producers of the thing (apart from Connery when he started his own rival one), so obviously they all hated it too and just wanted to say the lines and get out of there... I guess...? Dalton didn't even like it enough to sign on to do more than one film in the 90s despite having nothing else going on, if it's hearsay we're going by.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,970
    Modern audiences really need to understand that just because you didn't enjoy something, doesn't mean theres an agenda behind it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Modern audiences really need to understand that just because you didn't enjoy something, doesn't mean theres an agenda behind it.

    But Twitter says there's an agenda behind it! Twitter says it. So it must . Be . True! 🤓🤓
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited February 2022 Posts: 693
    mtm wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Craig used his role as Bond to turn himself into an A-list megastar. He knew he could leverage his popularity to demand a heap of money for continually coming back to the role, and he did just that. I don't blame him, he's clearly a good businessman, but he comes off as someone who used the franchise for his own benefit as opposed to someone who played the role because he genuinely enjoyed it, as with Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan.

    What on earth is that based on?

    It's my take on him based on comments he's made over the years and some of the creative decisions he's made during his tenure.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,427
    slide_99 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Craig used his role as Bond to turn himself into an A-list megastar. He knew he could leverage his popularity to demand a heap of money for continually coming back to the role, and he did just that. I don't blame him, he's clearly a good businessman, but he comes off as someone who used the franchise for his own benefit as opposed to someone who played the role because he genuinely enjoyed it, as with Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan.

    What on earth is that based on?

    It's my take on him based on comments he's made over the years and some of the creative decisions he's made during his tenure.

    Such as what? When has he ever said anything but he loves doing the films and puts everything into them because he wants them to be as good as they possibly can be? And don't say anything with the words 'wrists' or 'slash' involved, we've just been over that one single comment in this thread and his reasons are well-documented.

    I remind you again: the reported reason that Dalton didn't return is that said he didn't want to do more than one more. Is that someone enjoying it?
    Craig was Bond for 15 years.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited February 2022 Posts: 40,978
    Plus, it's a business like anything else. If the guy wanted to use his career as Bond (something he's no doubt emotional and thankful for and loved doing) to springboard into making $100 million off two Knives Out sequels, can you really blame him?

    I don't think he would've delivered five films over 15 years if he truly hated the role.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,427
    Roger, god bless him, enjoyed his life and pretty much anything he did so I'm sure he had a wonderful time being Bond just as he did with everything, but I find it hard to believe he loved the idea of James Bond and would have watched Bond movies if he hadn't been in them. But he did love the money! :)
    Pierce was desperate to be Bond (to the extent that he tried to get a rival unofficial Bond film off the ground in the early 90s) because he knew what it would bring him, and it did: it took him to another level of stardom which he enjoyed for a few years, plus his own production company etc. Tim has the reputation of being a proper important stage actor, but his CV rather tells another story: that of a guy who'll do pretty much any old tot for cash (Charlie's Angels!) and yet he was happy to have the story put out there that he didn't want to do more Bond films; and Connery pretty much hated playing Bond a couple of years in.
    Craig is probably the one who's shown the most amount of passion about getting the films as good as possible: he's been a producer, got one of the most impressive directors onboard, transformed his body for it, broken many bones, and even written some of one of the films himself. I can't see someone who has only used it for his own benefit and not enjoyed or been attached to it.
  • Posts: 1,078
    I've always thought Roger just loved being part of the movie franchise, and was the series' best ambassador, even now. He loved being a screen Bond.
    Tim was the actor who best understood Fleming, and arguably was most in tune with the essence of the character as envisioned by Fleming.
    I think Pierce had the same attitude as Roger, and had his run been longer, we might have had more rosier reminiscences from him, as we did from Rog.
    Daniel Craig, I think, just wanted to make the best movies he could. I can't see how anyone could deny that. He wanted to make the movies relevant, and edgy, and he certainly did that.
    I think we've been lucky with all the Bond actors post Connery.
  • edited February 2022 Posts: 3,566
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Plus, it's a business like anything else.

    ^This, above EVERYTHING else.^ Fans need to stop expecting professionals to think like fans. Yeah, I know -- it's not going to happen. But that's why some of us get exasperated by others among us.

    Be seeing you...

  • Posts: 1,394
    mtm wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Craig used his role as Bond to turn himself into an A-list megastar. He knew he could leverage his popularity to demand a heap of money for continually coming back to the role, and he did just that. I don't blame him, he's clearly a good businessman, but he comes off as someone who used the franchise for his own benefit as opposed to someone who played the role because he genuinely enjoyed it, as with Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan.

    What on earth is that based on?

    It's my take on him based on comments he's made over the years and some of the creative decisions he's made during his tenure.

    Such as what? When has he ever said anything but he loves doing the films and puts everything into them because he wants them to be as good as they possibly can be? And don't say anything with the words 'wrists' or 'slash' involved, we've just been over that one single comment in this thread and his reasons are well-documented.

    I remind you again: the reported reason that Dalton didn't return is that said he didn't want to do more than one more. Is that someone enjoying it?
    Craig was Bond for 15 years.

    Craig was only Bond for 15 years because of production delays and Covid delays.Both Connery and Moore did more films than him in less time.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,970
    He could've walked away at any moment but he didn't. He stayed and finished his run as he wanted. Did they offer him more money each time? Sure. But considering he was heavily involved in the movie, even being a producer, as well as suffering through incredible injuries to get the job done, I think he deserved that money.

    But for someone to basically say that he was only ever thinking of himself is ridiculous.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    mtm wrote: »
    Craig is probably the one who's shown the most amount of passion about getting the films as good as possible: he's been a producer, got one of the most impressive directors onboard, transformed his body for it, broken many bones, and even written some of one of the films himself. I can't see someone who has only used it for his own benefit and not enjoyed or been attached to it.
    Nail. Head.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Craig used his role as Bond to turn himself into an A-list megastar. He knew he could leverage his popularity to demand a heap of money for continually coming back to the role, and he did just that. I don't blame him, he's clearly a good businessman, but he comes off as someone who used the franchise for his own benefit as opposed to someone who played the role because he genuinely enjoyed it, as with Moore, Dalton, and Brosnan.

    What on earth is that based on?

    It's my take on him based on comments he's made over the years and some of the creative decisions he's made during his tenure.

    Such as what? When has he ever said anything but he loves doing the films and puts everything into them because he wants them to be as good as they possibly can be? And don't say anything with the words 'wrists' or 'slash' involved, we've just been over that one single comment in this thread and his reasons are well-documented.

    I remind you again: the reported reason that Dalton didn't return is that said he didn't want to do more than one more. Is that someone enjoying it?
    Craig was Bond for 15 years.

    Craig was only Bond for 15 years because of production delays and Covid delays.Both Connery and Moore did more films than him in less time.

    The production delays didn't have anything to do with him though. And arguably, that's another reason why he could have jumped ship, like Dalton allegedly did. And yet, he didn't.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    This is really random but I really wish I could go see Craig in the Macbeth he's doing with Ruth Negga.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I remember vividly when it was announced that Bond 23 was being delayed due to MGM going bankrupt, and the real fears fans had of Craig’s tenure being cut short like Dalton’s. There was not a whole lot of certainty at that time. Thankfully the delay didn’t last any longer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,427
    Denbigh wrote: »
    This is really random but I really wish I could go see Craig in the Macbeth he's doing with Ruth Negga.

    Have Eon ever recorded any of their stage productions? Or done any of those live broadcasts? I don't remember seeing them do it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2022 Posts: 17,804
    And arguably, that's another reason why he could have jumped ship, like Dalton allegedly did.
    Wait, do I just completely misunderstand the history here? There was no next movie to jump ship from. He moved on because Bond was on indefinite hiatus. I remember magazines saying there well might never be another Bond movie....
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Well they must've wanted him back because wasn't the original Goldeneye draft meant for him?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    Denbigh wrote: »
    This is really random but I really wish I could go see Craig in the Macbeth he's doing with Ruth Negga.

    If anything, it's the best chance for you to at least send in an item or picture for him to autograph. I might try it again this time around. I did it when he was performing Betrayal and he signed my blu-ray copy of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    chrisisall wrote: »
    And arguably, that's another reason why he could have jumped ship, like Dalton allegedly did.
    Wait, do I just completely misunderstand the history here? There was no next movie to jump ship from. He moved on because Bond was in indefinite hiatus. I remember magazines saying there well might never be another Bond movie....

    I don't think you're misunderstanding the history, no. But I didn't mention him jumping ship from a film, just the part. He still held the part even though there was no real movie in production at the time.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    There's at least two versions of events: Dalton's/EON's, where Cubby wanted Tim to do another three films, but Dalton only wanted to do one. And MGM/UA's, where they told EON that they not only didn't want Dalton to do any more but that they actively wanted Brosnan as Bond. If the latter's true, Dalton didn't so much jump ship as walk the plank...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    Venutius wrote: »
    There's at least two versions of events: Dalton's/EON's, where Cubby wanted Tim to do another three films, but Dalton only wanted to do one. And MGM/UA's, where they told EON that they not only didn't want Dalton to do any more but that they actively wanted Brosnan as Bond. If the latter's true, Dalton didn't so much jump ship as walk the plank...

    Haha! Perhaps that is a better turn of phrase for it, alright!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The kid thing took me back for a second, but then remembered I was born about two weeks after Goldeneye came out haha :D
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Denbigh wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The kid thing took me back for a second, but then remembered I was born about two weeks after Goldeneye came out haha :D

    LOL, if you didn't see a Connery Bond first run you are classified as a kid by the originals.
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