Babs Broccoli says she is "open" to Bond possibly being non-binary in the future

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Comments

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    They ought to just cast a black actor and get it over with. If it means losing racist fans, good riddance.

    It's not 'racist' to want an actor that resembles Fleming's description of James Bond.

    Except we’ve already had actors that don’t look like Fleming’s Bond. Why is it only suddenly an issue when a black actor takes the role?
  • Posts: 1,078
    They ought to just cast a black actor and get it over with. If it means losing racist fans, good riddance.

    It's not 'racist' to want an actor that resembles Fleming's description of James Bond.

    Except we’ve already had actors that don’t look like Fleming’s Bond. Why is it only suddenly an issue when a black actor takes the role?

    It's not suddenly an issue for me. I'm wasn't overly keen on Craig in the role, mostly because he doesn't fit my idea of the Fleming Bond.
    I'd like them to find another Dalton type for the roll. Someone dapper with a cruel streak. I doubt they will, but you never know. I'm not confident after the last movie, but who knows?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551

    If I said I don't want a black prime minister, or a black postman, that would be dodgy.

    That wouldn't be dodgy, that would be racist.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Non-binary is non-Bondary. End of story for me.
  • Posts: 1,078
    If I said I don't want a black prime minister, or a black postman, that would be dodgy.
    That wouldn't be dodgy, that would be racist.

    I suppose I'm racist for saying dodgy instead of racist. Or am I just dodgy?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited December 2021 Posts: 18,281
    It's quite likely we could have the first British prime minister of colour in the form of the current Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rishi Sunak MP. He's shown himself over the Covid-19 pandemic to be the only one out of the current Johnson Cabinet competent enough to lead the nation. I would be totally fine with that but Bond is a separate issue for me.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    If I said I don't want a black prime minister, or a black postman, that would be dodgy.
    That wouldn't be dodgy, that would be racist.

    I suppose I'm racist for saying dodgy instead of racist. Or am I just dodgy?

    You're dodgy for saying dodgy instead of racist. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    If someone decides “I’m done with Bond” when a black person is cast, how else are we supposed to interpret it?

    We already had a black Moneypenny and Felix Leiter. It seems like an inevitability at this point.
  • Posts: 1,078
    If I said I don't want a black prime minister, or a black postman, that would be dodgy.
    That wouldn't be dodgy, that would be racist.

    I suppose I'm racist for saying dodgy instead of racist. Or am I just dodgy?

    You're dodgy for saying dodgy instead of racist. ;)

    Without trying to derail the thread, I try not to use the word 'racist' unless I'm actually sure that someone definitely looks down on another race and considers them inferior. A lot of the time I see the word 'racist' used when someone's merely being insensitive or tasteless. I suppose it has to do with being a kid in the seventies.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,413
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The same reason black audiences wouldn't watch Shaft if the next film had him played by a white actor?

    Nah I really hate this whenever it comes up: Shaft is a blaxploitation character- the whole point of him at that time was that he was from a minority. Races aren't reversible, which is rather the problem we're still in. So changing a white character to black is not the same thing as changing a black character to a white one. Maybe someday it will be, but not at the moment.

    Honestly I think it's more similar to the blond Bond thing. If I had a preference I'd probably say the new Bond should have black hair too, but give me another actor who knocks it out of the park as well as Craig did and that pales into insignificance. I think that would probably happen with a lot of folks who say they'd prefer a white Bond too: if he's amazing enough at playing him then that preference slips away.

    I mostly agree. I merely think that so some, hair color isn't quite as important as race, and to others, it is. Just recently, we've seen the same thing with the ending of NTTD. Some say it's just another story twist in an era of doing things differently; others are livid, repulsed, downright aggressive in their response. Solid arguments on both sides, no objective truth anywhere in the debate. I guess it's the same thing with Bond’s race. Some wouldn't care; others can be swayed if a remarkable actor steps in; others still would leave their Bond membership card at the door, call for Barbara Broccoli's retirement or worse, burn the film to the ground (and possibly not even watch the film). To some, it would make sense, to others, it wouldn't, no matter what you'd tell them.

    The question is whether BB&MGW would risk another shockwave so soon...

    It would be a mild shockwave, really. It'd get overstated by a few loud fans as these things always do, but it'd pass soon enough. They should just do what they feel best.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,551
    If I said I don't want a black prime minister, or a black postman, that would be dodgy.
    That wouldn't be dodgy, that would be racist.

    I suppose I'm racist for saying dodgy instead of racist. Or am I just dodgy?

    You're dodgy for saying dodgy instead of racist. ;)

    Without trying to derail the thread, I try not to use the word 'racist' unless I'm actually sure that someone definitely looks down on another race and considers them inferior. A lot of the time I see the word 'racist' used when someone's merely being insensitive or tasteless. I suppose it has to do with being a kid in the seventies.

    But the way you presented your original hypothetical, not wanting a black prime minister or a black postman, the context is race and the only characteristic brought up for these people is their race. How can that not be racist?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,413
    If I said I don't want a black prime minister, or a black postman, that would be dodgy.
    That wouldn't be dodgy, that would be racist.

    I suppose I'm racist for saying dodgy instead of racist. Or am I just dodgy?

    You're dodgy for saying dodgy instead of racist. ;)

    Without trying to derail the thread, I try not to use the word 'racist' unless I'm actually sure that someone definitely looks down on another race and considers them inferior. A lot of the time I see the word 'racist' used when someone's merely being insensitive or tasteless. I suppose it has to do with being a kid in the seventies.

    But the way you presented your original hypothetical, not wanting a black prime minister or a black postman, the context is race and the only characteristic brought up for these people is their race. How can that not be racist?

    Yup, it's a good point Adam: the example was of a hypothetical person not wanting people in certain positions (not acting roles) purely because of their race: that is an example of racism and nothing else.
  • Posts: 1,078
    If someone decides “I’m done with Bond” when a black person is cast, how else are we supposed to interpret it?

    The same as if an Eskimo, or an Aboriginal Australian, or a Chinaman was cast. Or even a woman, or a midget, or an alien ... or a giraffe, or a gerbil.
    It really is okay to say 'I'd like James Bond to be English, white, tall dark and handsome, like the books, and if he's not, it won't seem like James Bond'.
    We're not stoking up the gas chambers here.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    To me, Craig felt more like Bond than Brosnan did, although both were good in their different ways. I know everyone has their own ways of seeing it, but to me ticking the boxes of outward appearance matter less as long as the spirit of the character is there rather than the exact word.
    As mentioned above, we haven't had the facial scar, comma of hair, sea island shirts etc. but he's still Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    If someone decides “I’m done with Bond” when a black person is cast, how else are we supposed to interpret it?

    The same as if an Eskimo, or an Aboriginal Australian, or a Chinaman was cast. Or even a woman, or a midget, or an alien ... or a giraffe, or a gerbil.
    It really is okay to say 'I'd like James Bond to be English, white, tall dark and handsome, like the books, and if he's not, it won't seem like James Bond'.
    We're not stoking up the gas chambers here.

    “Chinaman”

    …I think it’s time we look for you walker.
  • Posts: 1,078
    “Chinaman”

    …I think it’s time we look for you walker.

    Should I have said Chinese person?

    Help me out here!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    You also compared ethnicities to animals.

    Not sure we can teach an old dog new tricks.
  • Posts: 1,078
    You also compared ethnicities to animals.

    And extraterrestrials.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Also how can a British person not be black?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Midgets should be the Vertically Challenged, and Aliens should be Beings Of Non-Earth Origin.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Midgets should be the Vertically Challenged, and Aliens should be Beings Of Non-Earth Origin.

    Yea, I got those wrong. Luckily, I didn't differentiate between grey and green aliens.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think “extraterrestrial” is the term.

    Now, if one were born and raised in Britain, that would be less alienable.
  • Posts: 1,078
    Also how can a British person not be black?

    Eh? I know loads of British people who aren't black. I don't get your point here.

    I said. . .

    It really is okay to say 'I'd like James Bond to be English, white, tall dark and handsome, like the books, and if he's not, it won't seem like James Bond'.

    That's not saying English (or British) people can't be black. Read it again.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Fair enough, it got less of my attention due to you comparing casting a different ethnicity to that of casting a giraffe.
  • Posts: 1,078
    No problem. Good luck with your 'shame an internet racist' project.

    'Over and out' on this one for me.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Shaming wasn’t my aim.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    mtm wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The same reason black audiences wouldn't watch Shaft if the next film had him played by a white actor?

    Nah I really hate this whenever it comes up: Shaft is a blaxploitation character- the whole point of him at that time was that he was from a minority. Races aren't reversible, which is rather the problem we're still in. So changing a white character to black is not the same thing as changing a black character to a white one. Maybe someday it will be, but not at the moment.

    Honestly I think it's more similar to the blond Bond thing. If I had a preference I'd probably say the new Bond should have black hair too, but give me another actor who knocks it out of the park as well as Craig did and that pales into insignificance. I think that would probably happen with a lot of folks who say they'd prefer a white Bond too: if he's amazing enough at playing him then that preference slips away.

    I mostly agree. I merely think that so some, hair color isn't quite as important as race, and to others, it is. Just recently, we've seen the same thing with the ending of NTTD. Some say it's just another story twist in an era of doing things differently; others are livid, repulsed, downright aggressive in their response. Solid arguments on both sides, no objective truth anywhere in the debate. I guess it's the same thing with Bond’s race. Some wouldn't care; others can be swayed if a remarkable actor steps in; others still would leave their Bond membership card at the door, call for Barbara Broccoli's retirement or worse, burn the film to the ground (and possibly not even watch the film). To some, it would make sense, to others, it wouldn't, no matter what you'd tell them.

    The question is whether BB&MGW would risk another shockwave so soon...

    It would be a mild shockwave, really. It'd get overstated by a few loud fans as these things always do, but it'd pass soon enough.

    Will it, though? 😉 I am not sure the shock of NTTD's ending has already been quieted down.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    The same reason black audiences wouldn't watch Shaft if the next film had him played by a white actor?

    Nah I really hate this whenever it comes up: Shaft is a blaxploitation character- the whole point of him at that time was that he was from a minority. Races aren't reversible, which is rather the problem we're still in. So changing a white character to black is not the same thing as changing a black character to a white one. Maybe someday it will be, but not at the moment.

    Honestly I think it's more similar to the blond Bond thing. If I had a preference I'd probably say the new Bond should have black hair too, but give me another actor who knocks it out of the park as well as Craig did and that pales into insignificance. I think that would probably happen with a lot of folks who say they'd prefer a white Bond too: if he's amazing enough at playing him then that preference slips away.

    I mostly agree. I merely think that so some, hair color isn't quite as important as race, and to others, it is. Just recently, we've seen the same thing with the ending of NTTD. Some say it's just another story twist in an era of doing things differently; others are livid, repulsed, downright aggressive in their response. Solid arguments on both sides, no objective truth anywhere in the debate. I guess it's the same thing with Bond’s race. Some wouldn't care; others can be swayed if a remarkable actor steps in; others still would leave their Bond membership card at the door, call for Barbara Broccoli's retirement or worse, burn the film to the ground (and possibly not even watch the film). To some, it would make sense, to others, it wouldn't, no matter what you'd tell them.

    The question is whether BB&MGW would risk another shockwave so soon...

    It would be a mild shockwave, really. It'd get overstated by a few loud fans as these things always do, but it'd pass soon enough.

    Will it, though? 😉 I am not sure the shock of NTTD's ending has already been quieted down.

    Do you mean on here? I honestly don't think it's something I really feel going on, folks are over it aren't they? It's not like the papers are talking about it or anything :)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Help me out here!
    ... is not the preferred nomenclature.

    Asian-American. Please.

    simon-williams-bac8b910807117-560eb873d1e9c.jpg?1615341327
  • A problem with a black, brown etc Bond is that with new laws being debated to be put in place, and given the character's tendancy to go rogue, he could likely find himself being stripped of his UK citizenship and sent back to wherever his forbearers came from.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/17/new-bill-quietly-gives-powers-to-remove-british-citizenship-without-notice
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