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No Time To Die Script - Alternative pitches/what would you change?

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  • George_KaplanGeorge_Kaplan Being chauffeured by Tibbett
    edited April 2022 Posts: 701
    Three fundamental things I would change about the ending (i.e., Bond's death)
    1. Jettison the nanobot angle and make Heracles an actual virus, that way it would be easier to accept that Bond is stuck with it and there's little hope of a cure being developed any time soon, if ever.

    2. It was already established that Safin's plan was to 'kill millions' with the Heracles, so why not have Bond infected with that version of the virus. That way his sacrifice would be all the more necessary and heroic, having him die saving everyone, not just Madeleine and Mathilde.

    3. Make it fatal. Establish that the virus will kill Bond, albeit slowly (I know that's not how it functions earlier in the film but maybe this is a different version designed to make the victim suffer). So even if a cure was available, there wouldn't be time to get it to Bond, nor a way to do it safely. It would then leave him with no alternative but to wait for the missiles and grant himself a quick death.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,800
    George_Kaplan wrote: »
    Three fundamental things I would change about the ending (i.e., Bond's death)
    1. Jettison the nanobot angle and make Heracles an actual virus, that way it would be easier to accept that Bond is stuck with it and there's little hope of a cure being developed any time soon, if ever.

    2. It was already established that Safin's plan was to 'kill millions' with the Heracles, so why not have Bond infected with that version of the virus. That way his sacrifice would be all the more necessary and heroic, having him die saving everyone, not just Madeleine and Mathilde.

    3. Make it fatal. Establish that the virus will kill Bond, albeit slowly (I know that's not how it functions earlier in the film but maybe this is a different version designed to make the victim suffer). So even if a cure was available, there wouldn't be time to get it to Bond, nor a way to do it safely. It would then leave him with no alternative but to wait for the missiles and grant himself a quick death.

    Great idea 👍 @George_Kaplan
    Much more believable.
    The #3 is so sad, like Bond weakening and dying slowly and wait for the missiles to strike? That would be so much emotional than what we've got.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2022 Posts: 16,624
    George_Kaplan wrote: »
    Three fundamental things I would change about the ending (i.e., Bond's death)
    1. Jettison the nanobot angle and make Heracles an actual virus, that way it would be easier to accept that Bond is stuck with it and there's little hope of a cure being developed any time soon, if ever.

    2. It was already established that Safin's plan was to 'kill millions' with the Heracles, so why not have Bond infected with that version of the virus. That way his sacrifice would be all the more necessary and heroic, having him die saving everyone, not just Madeleine and Mathilde.

    3. Make it fatal. Establish that the virus will kill Bond, albeit slowly (I know that's not how it functions earlier in the film but maybe this is a different version designed to make the victim suffer). So even if a cure was available, there wouldn't be time to get it to Bond, nor a way to do it safely. It would then leave him with no alternative but to wait for the missiles and grant himself a quick death.

    I don’t need those changes to be honest.
    1) I have no issue believing it won’t come off: we’re told that’s how it is;
    2) Dying for his family alone makes it the more heroic and tragic for me: he would always have died for the world in any film, but to die for just two people shows how much he loves them;
    3) Again it makes it more tragic that the virus will never kill him but he chooses death to save them. If he hadn’t had that choice the impact would be lessened slightly.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Just maintain the Matera mystery feel throughout the film. Even if I don't like a lot of elements in the film's plot, maintaining the dangerous feel of Matera would have easily made this film superb. I felt more fear for Bond in SP's SPECTRE meeting than I did for him in NTTD's Cuba scene. I don't think FRWL would have been very good to this day, if it had too many jokes, considering it had a menacing villain like Red Grant. The jokes in NTTD, didn't help Malek's much hyped villain, as it meant he wasn't a serious threat, if characters had time to joke.

    Nailed it. Matera was the perfect tone for Craig's finale

    Honestly. It's that good. Makes one wonder which of the writers wrote the Matera sequence.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,160
    Agreed. The title song is perfect after Matera too. But then we're straight into soup gags, Borat, 'I like animals!' and magnets. That tonal shift really does jar with me now, I'm afraid. Matera, all the way.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2022 Posts: 16,624
    A bit like with GoldenEye and the whole Severnaya bit, the thought of watching NTTD and getting through the lab assault section is a bit of a mental block to me that puts me off watching it again (not to mention the Norway flashback to be honest).
    I'd say it was the lack of Bond, but something like Skyfall has the M 'retirement planning' and MI6 attack scenes after the credits, and that all flies by.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,160
    Yeah, I've actually started skipping the lab assault when I watch it now - it's too much of a jolt out of the mood. And, yes, I've been tempted to skip the flashback and start with the road to Matera too, tbh. Bit worrying, this...
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I agree as well. I find it difficult watching the lab assault these days.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,247
    Not that the lab sequence is bad, but it's because of Dencik's unwanted comedy. I'm really surprised EON and Fukunaga made most of NTTD comedy-heavy though.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,624
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yeah, I've actually started skipping the lab assault when I watch it now - it's too much of a jolt out of the mood. And, yes, I've been tempted to skip the flashback and start with the road to Matera too, tbh. Bit worrying, this...

    I remember watching Tomorrow Never Dies a little while ago on telly and realising I hadn't seen the sinking of the Devonshire in many years :D
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,310
    I actually don't mind the lab scene (although seeing Hugh Dennis pop up is a bit... well, odd, but this is very much a British viewer issue). I wish Obruchev had been killed off earlier in the film as his comic performance wears thin during the climax (he also goes weirdly racist at the end, which is a bit jarring).

    I do love the opening flashback in Norway as well. Almost like something from a horror film at points (reminded me of 009's death in Octopussy in an atmosphere sense).
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,003
    Hugh Dennis' cameo was more distracting for me than Obruchev.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Even in the Cuba scene "It is working...it is working. Only SPECTRE are dying". It just doesn't make the scene intense any more. If Dencik were to be in the Matera sequence, I'm sure Bond surviving the grave explosion would have been a joke.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,160
    It's like someone found an unused fool at the back of a storeroom that'd been locked since 2002, dusted him off and threw him on set...
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,310
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Hugh Dennis' cameo was more distracting for me than Obruchev.

    I have friends from outside of the UK and none of them can understand why it's so distracting. Genuinely though, it's just so random (perhaps Waller-Bridge's involvement had something to do with it?)
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Even in the Cuba scene "It is working...it is working. Only SPECTRE are dying". It just doesn't make the scene intense any more. If Dencik were to be in the Matera sequence, I'm sure Bond surviving the grave explosion would have been a joke.

    Oh yeah, forgot about that. It's clearly ADR too so presumably this was put in because someone thought the audience wouldn't be able to follow the plot point for whatever reason.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Yeah @007HallY that could easily be the reason, but it's still a let down though.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Most of the comedy in NTTD missed the mark for me, it felt jarring to the darker story they wanted to tell. It wasn't witty, it was almost slapstick and that felt odd compared to the brutal action and fight sequences
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2022 Posts: 16,624
    007HallY wrote: »
    I actually don't mind the lab scene (although seeing Hugh Dennis pop up is a bit... well, odd, but this is very much a British viewer issue). I wish Obruchev had been killed off earlier in the film as his comic performance wears thin during the climax (he also goes weirdly racist at the end, which is a bit jarring).

    Yeah that really threw me the first time I watched it; I mean, I know he's a baddie (although in fact it's not really clear if he is or not during the film- it almost seems like he's just going along with everybody telling him what to do) but it's a bit like if Boris had said suddenly spat out "all women are sluts" or something at the end of GoldenEye. It just doesn't quite fit for the funny guy to suddenly turn so nasty.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I actually don't mind the lab scene (although seeing Hugh Dennis pop up is a bit... well, odd, but this is very much a British viewer issue). I wish Obruchev had been killed off earlier in the film as his comic performance wears thin during the climax (he also goes weirdly racist at the end, which is a bit jarring).

    Yeah that really threw me the first time I watched it; I mean, I know he's a baddie (although in fact it's not really clear if he is or not during the film- it almost seems like he's just going along with everybody telling him what to do) but it's a bit like if Boris had said suddenly spat out "all women are sluts" or something at the end of GoldenEye. It just doesn't quite fit for the funny guy to suddenly turn so nasty.

    Yeah his weird racist outburst felt so out of nowhere. It was there solely to give Nomi a triumphant moment and to give Waldo a reason to be killed rather than captured
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    The trailers of NTTD showed us what the film would have been without Dencik...because he wasn't in the trailers.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,160
    mtm wrote: »
    I remember watching Tomorrow Never Dies a little while ago on telly and realising I hadn't seen the sinking of the Devonshire in many years :D

    :D
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,160
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Most of the comedy in NTTD missed the mark for me, it felt jarring to the darker story they wanted to tell. It wasn't witty, it was almost slapstick and that felt odd compared to the brutal action and fight sequences

    Yes. There's two great gags in NTTD: 'Not the first thing I thought you'd take off' and 'I've just shown someone your watch' (let down a bit by the 'blew his mind' coda - IMO, obvs). 'Shouldn't we get to know each other first' was pretty good. The almost slapstick elements do detract from Cuba for me, but Paloma was so great I'm conflicted on that one! ;)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,624
    I don’t think there’s anything in it which tickled me as much as the nicely bizarre sofa gag at the start of Spectre :) I liked the Q’s house scene though, and the jokes at Ash’s expense.
    The watch has always rankled with me a bit though: why does Q give him a disguised gadget when he’s going on a commando raid? He doesn’t need an EMP that looks like something else; he’s not undercover, he’s got a great big machine gun :D
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,941
    The funniest criticism of the film I heard: changing their best agents' code name/designation (It's only a number!) literally moments before they're launched into a critical mission.

    Luckily Bond was the psi--he's the trident thingy.

  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Venutius wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Most of the comedy in NTTD missed the mark for me, it felt jarring to the darker story they wanted to tell. It wasn't witty, it was almost slapstick and that felt odd compared to the brutal action and fight sequences

    Yes. There's two great gags in NTTD: 'Not the first thing I thought you'd take off' and 'I've just shown someone your watch' (let down a bit by the 'blew his mind' coda - IMO, obvs). 'Shouldn't we get to know each other first' was pretty good. The almost slapstick elements do detract from Cuba for me, but Paloma was so great I'm conflicted on that one! ;)

    I realise I'm tough to please when it comes to Bond films, but I do prefer a darker tone, to my mind Bond himself should never been funny, he should be witty
    (my friends call me Dominic... I'm sure they do)

    I think most of the comedy stuff in NTTD should have been left out, it dilutes a lot of the better funny moments when there's so many attempts at humour.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,160
    Yeah, that's why those three are the only ones in NTTD that work for me. Wry wit, rather than out and out gags, is the way to go for me. It's why 'I've just shown someone your watch' (wry wit) is undercut by 'really blew his mind' (attempt to be funny). I realise that a lot of people loved that gag, so this is IMO stuff, obviously. 'I'm sure they do' is a perfect example, actually, and QOS is full of wry wit ('You shot him at point blank range and threw him off a roof' - 'I did my best not to', etc) and it was a big step back when they reverted to 'got in deep water' gags in SF. Shame - they'd really nailed CraigBond's dark humour in QOS and then let it slip. I guess Haggis took it with him.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Yeah that's it mate. I did laugh a lot at the "who's the book of mormon" that was a great line
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,160
    Yeah, good point, Jordo - 'the book of mormon' was another good one, tbf.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,624
    Ah yes I forgot that line, that’s a nice one.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    edited April 2022 Posts: 1,394
    1) Give Safin more screen time and make him more of a threat by establishing early on that he’s the new leader of SPECTRE in Blofelds absence ( The idea that Blofeld was able to keep running the organisation while in custody with a bionic eye was ludicrous).

    2) Bond reluctantly teams up with Blofeld to take down the new Safin led SPECTRE.

    3) Make Primo more of a threat.I liked his look but he spent the entire film either getting strangled by Bond or being a fool.

    4) The virus ( Nanobot or otherwise ) is a SPECTRE invention.

    5) Kill off Madeline in the PTS.It makes it more necessary for Bond to team up with Blofeld to take SPECTRE down.

    6) Make Paloma the main Bond girl.Bond doesn’t have to sleep with her,as someone said earlier it can be a Mentor relationship.

    7) Make Safins plan a world domination plot along the lines of Stromberg and Drax.

    8) Bond doesn’t die.The film ends with him taking down SPECTRE and Blofeld killing Safin along with himself.
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