The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    Disagree. Quantum is Craig's SPECTRE. And like SPECTRE, I think Craig's Bond should eventually find and confront the person at the top of the organization, perhaps in Bond 24 or 25.
  • Posts: 4,762
    echo wrote:
    Disagree. Quantum is Craig's SPECTRE. And like SPECTRE, I think Craig's Bond should eventually find and confront the person at the top of the organization, perhaps in Bond 24 or 25.

    Yeah, we do need some time to figure out who Quantum is, who its top operatives are, and eventually who its leader is. I wouldn't want Skyfall to close the book on Quantum, because the Quantum timeline would be all too short. Like SPECTRE, we probably need 6 movies to cover it!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    In the first 2 SPECTRE films, Blofeld appeared for the first time, and we saw much more of the organization than in the first 2 Quantum films. It seems EON is really stalling with Quantum. In Bond 24 (when Quantum will return), it will be 8 years since CR. 8 years after DN, we saw Blofeld be the main protagonist for 2 movies, and Spectre was featuring in 5 films. So I think Quantum as of now is a big failure. We know close to nothing about Quantum, and it's been 6 years since CR.
  • Posts: 12,526
    In the first 2 SPECTRE films, Blofeld appeared for the first time, and we saw much more of the organization than in the first 2 Quantum films. It seems EON is really stalling with Quantum. In Bond 24 (when Quantum will return), it will be 8 years since CR. 8 years after DN, we saw Blofeld be the main protagonist for 2 movies, and Spectre was featuring in 5 films. So I think Quantum as of now is a big failure. We know close to nothing about Quantum, and it's been 6 years since CR.

    Have to disagree here! First of all CR was all about LeChiffre and Bond's beginnings. Nobody had ever heard of Quantum? Not even their name for that matter! All we knew was that Mr White worked for someone else?

    Quantum was established in 2008! So make that 4 years already! And really? Are you blaming MGM's financial crisis in the REAL world for you saying quantum was a failure as an organisation? If that had not happened i am sure we would have had a movie from DC persuing them 2 years ago before the upcoming movie!

    Also when Spectre were around the films were coming out far more regular due to the success of the films and an actor making a name for himself and also a studio cashing in too!




  • Posts: 1,856
    In the first 2 SPECTRE films, Blofeld appeared for the first time, and we saw much more of the organization than in the first 2 Quantum films. It seems EON is really stalling with Quantum. In Bond 24 (when Quantum will return), it will be 8 years since CR. 8 years after DN, we saw Blofeld be the main protagonist for 2 movies, and Spectre was featuring in 5 films. So I think Quantum as of now is a big failure. We know close to nothing about Quantum, and it's been 6 years since CR.

    I totally agree with you, in CR it was keeped mysterious and QOS the reveal felt like it was tacked on the end so they can explain why they chose that title, and I'm guessing Dan wrote that scene... Also Quantum was stupid, It would of been much better if they used Specter hell the splangled mob would do.... But tack something on a film at the last minute to make the title fit...... :(|)

    Blofeld is the Moriaty to Bond's Homes, since four of the last five films have had dire villains, BOND NEEDS A MORIATY!!!!



  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Virage wrote:
    In the first 2 SPECTRE films, Blofeld appeared for the first time, and we saw much more of the organization than in the first 2 Quantum films. It seems EON is really stalling with Quantum. In Bond 24 (when Quantum will return), it will be 8 years since CR. 8 years after DN, we saw Blofeld be the main protagonist for 2 movies, and Spectre was featuring in 5 films. So I think Quantum as of now is a big failure. We know close to nothing about Quantum, and it's been 6 years since CR.

    I totally agree with you, in CR it was keeped mysterious and QOS the reveal felt like it was tacked on the end so they can explain why they chose that title, and I'm guessing Dan wrote that scene... Also Quantum was stupid, It would of been much better if they used Specter hell the splangled mob would do.... But tack something on a film at the last minute to make the title fit...... :(|)

    Blofeld is the Moriaty to Bond's Homes, since four of the last five films have had dire villains, BOND NEEDS A MORIATY!!!!

    I don't see Blofeld as Bond's Moriarty. Comparing the two insults Moriarty.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 014</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>The GF script is better than Fleming's novel.</b></font>
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 7,653
    The theft of all that gold was a bit of a large plothole in the novel, they solved that better in the moviescript.

    However Flemings style and prose are superiour to the script. And GF is in my view excellent reading for the beginner of Flemings writings, it is easy and well written. ANd I have nothing with Golf, but after reading GF I wanted to take it up as a sport, (the same with bridge in MR) that is how well the man can write a story.

    GF the book for me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    SaintMark wrote:
    but after reading GF I wanted to take it up as a sport, (the same with bridge in MR) that is how well the man can write a story.

    Same here. Reading Fleming, I found new interests in life.
  • Posts: 12,526
    unable to say as i have never read the novel. But like already stated? Hard to steal all that gold! So making it radioactive made sense i guess!
  • 013- Craigs era is ready for blofeld, but they can't have spectre because they had to go and make quantum. Personally I hate what we've seen of quantum so far but it wouldn't make sense to bring in a whole new organisation for no reason. I also don't want blofeld to lead quantum.

    What I would've liked to have seen was SPECTRE be the organisation behind mr white and not quantum, but EON couldn't help that since they didn't own the rights back then. I would like to see blofeld return though, acting solo, and reimagined a bit so people don't think "hey its dr evil!"
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I haven't read it yet, either. I've only read Fleming's first two novels, Casino Royale and Live and Let Die. I hear the novel is quite good.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 7,653
    I haven't read it yet, either. I've only read Fleming's first two novels, Casino Royale and Live and Let Die. I hear the novel is quite good.

    It is a decent novel, that said quite a few writers would wish that they had written a novel as good as GF. But Fleming has written better novels. (No not city city bang bang)

    :-))
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.

    Which is bound to be edited in a future edition...

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I certainly hope not. I wouldn't appreciate it if they so much as changed a single word in Fleming's novels.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.

    Which is bound to be edited in a future edition...

    If they wanted to cut it I'm pretty sure they already would have.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.

    Which is bound to be edited in a future edition...

    If they wanted to cut it I'm pretty sure they already would have.

    Yeah, LALD was horrible to me. I didn't enjoy the racism and the plot was iffy. After reading the beautifully constructed CR, hardly anything will compare. CR was just a straight espionage novel, nothing more, nothing less. I hope the rest of Fleming's MR onward are like that. Can anyone enlighten me?
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.

    Which is bound to be edited in a future edition...

    If they wanted to cut it I'm pretty sure they already would have.

    Yeah, LALD was horrible to me. I didn't enjoy the racism and the plot was iffy. After reading the beautifully constructed CR, hardly anything will compare. CR was just a straight espionage novel, nothing more, nothing less. I hope the rest of Fleming's MR onward are like that. Can anyone enlighten me?

    They get much more "flamboyant" as they go on. Not in the same vain as the films but nonetheless Fleming gets more and more imaginative. Dr No in particular is a lot of fun.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.

    Which is bound to be edited in a future edition...

    If they wanted to cut it I'm pretty sure they already would have.

    Yeah, LALD was horrible to me. I didn't enjoy the racism and the plot was iffy. After reading the beautifully constructed CR, hardly anything will compare. CR was just a straight espionage novel, nothing more, nothing less. I hope the rest of Fleming's MR onward are like that. Can anyone enlighten me?

    I always hear about the LALD novel being really racist but I haven't read it, was it really bad? I'm black and although the film had afew lines that were pushing on racist I found it ok, but I've never read the book
  • Posts: 11,189
    Well chapter 7 was called N****r Heaven. That might give you an idea.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    Well chapter 7 was called N****r Heaven. That might give you an idea.

    ahhhhh I see. Won't bother reading it then.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Well chapter 7 was called N****r Heaven. That might give you an idea.

    Yeah, stuff like that really ticks me off. I can see Fleming adding in some sexism. You know, women should please men first and foremost, blah blah. I just can't stand too much of that and especially not the racism. I know it was the 50s and the idea of equality was skewed, but it is jaw dropping to read some of that novel. Not only did the plot disappoint me, the novel does to Felix what LTK did. We get CR with Felix, then he gets gnawed on in LALD. Come on Fleming. Seriously? I don't know personally if Fleming was racist, but his novels tend to make him look it.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2012 Posts: 15,715
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Having read GF yet, but I heard it is quite controversial.

    The most controversial novel was probably LALD. The racism is quite shocking by todays standards - especially the title of chapter 7.

    Which is bound to be edited in a future edition...

    If they wanted to cut it I'm pretty sure they already would have.

    Many things that predate LALD has been edited just recently... So don't rule out the LALD novel being edited one day... just like the Connery intro scene from DN will have the cigarette edited out one day...

  • Posts: 11,189
    It's just a sign of his era. He came from a time when the white race was still relitively dominant in the likes of England and America. True imigration was coming but he came from the older generation where whites were seen as superior. Don't take it personally, it was just his way. I agree some of the stuff in the books is quite shocking in 2012. People moan about the Bond films being more PC but, lets face it, if they stuck EXACTLY to Fleming there would be an uproar. Some of his views just wouldn't be tolerated today - regardless of what fans say.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    It's just a sign of his era. He came from a time when the white race was still relitively dominant in the likes of England and America. True imigration was coming but he came from the older generation where whites were seen as superior. Don't take it personally, it was just his way. I agree some of the stuff in the books is quite shocking in 2012. People moan about the Bond films being more PC but, lets face it, if they stuck EXACTLY to Fleming there would be an uproar. Some of his views just wouldn't be tolerated today - regardless of what fans say.

    if the franchise stuck exactly to flemmings style then the films would've stopped long ago. I don't think being close to flemming matters that much anymore. His version of bond is pretty outdated, none of the bonds really look like book bond, I think the character has changed that much now that being close to flemming doesn't really matter
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I happen to think the Goldfinger film is the only one to improve on it's novel, so I say yes to this question. The film is far less dull, even if in places, it itself still is.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Well, I agree with the thesis, which you must remember is not necessarily the case in this thread despite my writing out these theses.

    Reading GF isn't a dull experience per se but it has its rather disappointing moments which seem fairly 'fixed' in the film script. Also, I feel that the film's logic, especially towards the end, is slightly superior over the novel's logic.

    This, however, is the only case of a somewhat faithful adaptation of the novel where I truly believe the script is an improvement.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,289
    I feel that the GF script is an improvement on the novel, at least in terms of plot. There are still problems--Bond is incompetent in both versions--but the idea of stealing/destroying the US' gold supply is inspired.

    The only other Bond movie that arguably improved on the novel was OHMSS. Having Blofeld kidnap Tracy at the end really raised the stakes for Bond.

    Maibaum really is missed!

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