›

The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

1…101102104106107…190

Comments

  • emilbertilloemilbertillo
    Posts: 153
    I disagree with that.

    As I have pointed out in a previous comment, Brosnan is Roger Moore Part II. He's good, alright, but to connect his previous Bond outings with Casino Royale doesn't seem to fit, whether it be a reboot or an origin story or a follow-up to DAD. He relies on gadgets too much, he quips unnecessarily, he's the misogynistic relic of the Cold War trying to fit in the 21st Century. It's like seeing Adam West as Batman beating the pulp out of a thug while saying "I'm the goddamned Batman."

    Most importantly, Pierce is the warning signal that the creative juices of the franchise is running dry. That's the alarm saying "Oops Time to use the face changer again!"

    134768_slide.jpg?v=1
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited September 2012 Posts: 24,173
    I think the thesis maybe slightly misread by some folks. ;-)

    The point is not so much that Brosnan should have done a CR in 2006, similar to Craig's. The point is that instead of the type of films they gave him after GE, Brosnan himself seemed interested in a more sober, more 'Flemingesque' Bond film; one might argue a more serious and more authentic Bond film. Said film could have easily be made in '97 for instance.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And with the above clarification, I AGREE with the thesis.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,568
    I wouldn't take back any films Brosnan has done, but I agree he should've got his more serious Flemingesque film.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited September 2012 Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 156</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Brosnan should have been given his Casino Royale.</b></font>

    Agree with the thesis. People would look back more fondly upon the era if there was a film that washed away the bad taste of DAD, with Brosnan in it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Couldn't really say, as that thesis means different things to different people. Some like the direction CR went, some don't.
  • aspydadaspydad
    Posts: 11
    There was talk of a remake of OHMSS at one point bringing the series back into the 60's Cold War era. Would have loved to see Brosnan do that flick. W/out being too personal I think Pierce would have been excellent in it and much to draw from with the premature death of his beloved Cassandra. Brosnan is a class act.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2012 Posts: 4,515
    If you mean succes like CR then i say. There also a view points of the movie who not change with him in the lead. Then i mean the M thing in specialy, this is one of the things what be left from the Brosnan era what give some strengh of the DC era. Whyle i must say iam happy when that story line is finished with Skyfall or Bond 24/25.

    Biggest problems be the flaws of CR with the 24 subject and the story with Vesper. As said before i believe he loved Elektra more then Vesper, if Brosnan have been Bond it mabey give more drama to part i miss in Vesper now. Atleast i understand better the signal he never loved Vesper because he loved Elektra more.

    Another problem be is thatyou mabey whant see more hate in Bond against M because of DAD include Charles atleast, whyle from DC Bond it be more from inside (something i can denie Daniel Craig have more in him then Brosnan.) and we only the first signal of this in QOS then in CR (I Never Left, the Mom comments.). Eon find a kind of midle way with another actor to stil contune M/Bond relation ship as connection to news idea's who we first not see but after 6 years now see it a litle bit. I think a part of that succes is another strong point of DC era is that not show anything or not looking back to things what can made it more dificult then only the M/Bond story line. No Quatermaster in Cr and QOS be a good thing and because there relation shop look like it go to break it made it more belieavaible too she/Mi6 break with Charles or the old Q whyle there not showing him.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Not sure Pierce had the acting chops for CR so I'm not disappointed with how things turned out. However the thesis is did he deserve a crack at CR and the answer is emphatically yes.

    He loved being Bond and pit heart and soul into the role and the publicity but he was ultimately fired as scapegoat for mistakes made by Babs and MGE in hiring Tamahori and P&W.

    None of the problems with DAD are down to Pierce who arguably gives his most polished performance. Put Sean or Rog at their peak in DAD and it's still a disaster.

    Pierce deserved a much better send off - but when has a Bond actor ever gone out on a high except for Laz.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Not sure Pierce had the acting chops for CR so I'm not disappointed with how things turned out. However the thesis is did he deserve a crack at CR and the answer is emphatically yes.

    He loved being Bond and pit heart and soul into the role and the publicity but he was ultimately fired as scapegoat for mistakes made by Babs and MGE in hiring Tamahori and P&W.

    None of the problems with DAD are down to Pierce who arguably gives his most polished performance. Put Sean or Rog at their peak in DAD and it's still a disaster.

    Pierce deserved a much better send off - but when has a Bond actor ever gone out on a high except for Laz.

    I completely agree with you apart from the bit at the end. I think Dalton also went out on a high with LTK.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 156</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Brosnan should have been given his Casino Royale.</b></font>

    They tried to and we got TWINE. So I would say disagree.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Not sure Pierce had the acting chops for CR so I'm not disappointed with how things turned out. However the thesis is did he deserve a crack at CR and the answer is emphatically yes.

    He loved being Bond and pit heart and soul into the role and the publicity but he was ultimately fired as scapegoat for mistakes made by Babs and MGE in hiring Tamahori and P&W.

    None of the problems with DAD are down to Pierce who arguably gives his most polished performance. Put Sean or Rog at their peak in DAD and it's still a disaster.

    Pierce deserved a much better send off - but when has a Bond actor ever gone out on a high except for Laz.

    I completely agree with you apart from the bit at the end. I think Dalton also went out on a high with LTK.

    I don't rate LTK as much as TLD but granted it's light years ahead of DAF (or NSNA if you must), AVTAK and DAD.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    I think the fact that Brosnan didn't get his CR is due to the fact that he himself failed to convince MGW and Babs to make such a film. If there's one thing I gather from Daniel Craig it is that he's most definitely involved in the direction they take Bond. He even helped write the script of QoS.

    So his complaining imho means a complaint about his inability to change the course the movies were taking.

    DAD is a good example. Anyone who'd seen Once Were Worriors and What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted would have expected a hard, gritty Bondfilm from Tamahori. We got the opposite. So what happened? One thing is for sure: Tamahori didn't understand Bond an Brosnan failed to steer him in the direction he claims he wanted to go to..
  • SharkySharky
    Posts: 266
    PrinceKamalKhan wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 156</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Brosnan should have been given his Casino Royale.</b></font>

    They tried to and we got TWINE. So I would say disagree.

    I like TWINE, i know it has it's flaws but i enjoyed it. I think it is the closest Brosnan got to be given a Flemingesque film but i still dont think the film makers went all out on it, so it is the closest he got but i dont think he really ever got given one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 157</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Bond films do not on average hold American law enforcement in high esteem.</b></font>
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 157</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Bond films do not on average hold American law enforcement in high esteem.</b></font>

    Different incarnations have heralded different takes on other law enforcement. For example, the CIA in general are not shown in a good light, but Felix Leiter is (QOS is a perfect example). Then you have your JW Peppers in on top of that. So, Felix Leiter aside, I'd agree with the thesis.

  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 157</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Bond films do not on average hold American law enforcement in high esteem.</b></font>

    Agree if we're not counting Leiter and the CIA. I would interpret the thesis as your normal run of the mill police. In that respect, the Hamilton films of the 1970's are full of Bond making the U.S and later Thai police look like fools, as well as the SF police in AVTAK.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I think that most sheriffs are portrayed as rather clumsy, overweight baboons. E.g. DAF, LALD, (TMWTGG), AVTAK. Somehow, that's a mistake. It doesn't make Bond outsmarting them any more impressive. On the contrary, it seems like it's a walk in the park.

    Hence: agreed!
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 157</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Bond films do not on average hold American law enforcement in high esteem.</b></font>

    Overall i would have to agree with this thesis. As much as i laugh? Sheriff J W Pepper is a casing point. Also the sequences in DAF and also AVTAK suggest this too.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    I disagree. I think Bond seldom meets American law enforcement. I don't think the Moore-era films held anyone in high esteem. JW Pepper and AVTAK are hardly standards to go by. Only in LTK do we get a decent discussion between the two and I must say it's Bond who's breaking the rules, showing an in-corrupt law enforcement organization.
  • VirageVirage
    edited September 2012 Posts: 1,856
    Disagree, TECHNICALY you could argue the CIA is law enforcement, so Felix would count. Also JW was treated in the same way as Hollywood itself treated police at the time (Roscoe P.Coltrane in "The Dukes Of Hazard or Buford T. Justice in Smokey and the Bandit .)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I disagree. Countless times, Bond has been shown working efficiently with the CIA. It is more often MI6 that has the double agents, and too often when Bond himself goes rogue. If the CIA are to be criticized at all, it will be in reference to how the hell Jinx became under their employment.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I disagree. Countless times, Bond has been shown working efficiently with the CIA. It is more often MI6 that has the double agents, and too often when Bond himself goes rogue. If the CIA are to be criticized at all, it will be in reference to how the hell Jinx became under their employment.

    Hate to nitpick, but Jinx was NSA, not CIA.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I disagree. Countless times, Bond has been shown working efficiently with the CIA. It is more often MI6 that has the double agents, and too often when Bond himself goes rogue. If the CIA are to be criticized at all, it will be in reference to how the hell Jinx became under their employment.

    Hate to nitpick, but Jinx was NSA, not CIA.

    My apologies, but I try to see that film as little as humanly possible to make sure my physical health is consistently stabilized. It is no surprise I am rusty. But NSA, CIA, Yanks all the same.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I disagree. Countless times, Bond has been shown working efficiently with the CIA. It is more often MI6 that has the double agents, and too often when Bond himself goes rogue. If the CIA are to be criticized at all, it will be in reference to how the hell Jinx became under their employment.

    Hate to nitpick, but Jinx was NSA, not CIA.

    My apologies, but I try to see that film as little as humanly possible to make sure my physical health is consistently stabilized. It is no surprise I am rusty. But NSA, CIA, Yanks all the same.

    Very true, how Jinx got employed by any of them will forever remain a mystery.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Very true, how Jinx got employed by any of them will forever remain a mystery.
    I have a pretty good idea.....

    Blow.jpg

  • VolanteVolante
    Posts: 774
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Very true, how Jinx got employed by any of them will forever remain a mystery.
    I have a pretty good idea.....

    Blow.jpg

    Regular brushing of the teeth? They liked her hygiene?
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Very true, how Jinx got employed by any of them will forever remain a mystery.
    I have a pretty good idea.....

    Blow.jpg

    Oh i love this! =))
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Very true, how Jinx got employed by any of them will forever remain a mystery.
    I have a pretty good idea.....

    Blow.jpg

    Only you, @Master_Dahark! =))
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote:
    Very true, how Jinx got employed by any of them will forever remain a mystery.
    I have a pretty good idea.....

    Blow.jpg

    Haha, brilliant. :P
Sign In or Register to comment.