The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Even if Moonraker had been made in the 60's, there still could have been a Bond film set in outer space in 1977 or 79 regardless.
  • Posts: 7,653
    In the 60's the story from the book would be more actual. By the time it Roger Moore did his the missile thread was a done deal and indeed a more scifi movie was called for.

    MR is still one of the better spectacle/action movies from that era and had no competition in BO terms. SW was a different genre after all.
  • edited September 2012 Posts: 1,310
    At least we would have a good film

    Up until Rio, I'd say MR is a good film.

    So many great moments. Most of the PTS, Bond shooting the sniper, the bit on the spinny simulator thing, the fight with Chang, etc.

    The only bad things before the film gets to Brazil are Jaws falling into the tent and the gondola chase.
    I agree with you here, particularly on all the scenes you mentioned. Have to add poor Corinne Dufour getting mauled by Drax's dogs, too, what a haunting scene. Had the silly pre-titles and the Bondola been the only offenses Moonraker had to give, I'd go as so far to say that it would have been Moore's best film hands down. But alas, the film goes to hell when you say it does; the AWFUL cable car fight and to put the nail in the coffin - Jaws falling in love.

    In minutes, Moonraker did a complete 180. Impressive, but in a very sad way. I think MR is one of the biggest missed opportunities in the franchise.
  • SJK91 wrote:
    In minutes, Moonraker did a complete 180. Impressive, but in a very sad way. I think MR is one of the biggest missed opportunities in the franchise.
    Correction sir- that would be Dalton not sticking around for GoldenEye. ;)

    But you are right about the 180. There was almost a serious Bond movie in there somewhere...
    but I do love it for what it is!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    SJK91 wrote:
    In minutes, Moonraker did a complete 180. Impressive, but in a very sad way. I think MR is one of the biggest missed opportunities in the franchise.
    Correction sir- that would be Dalton not sticking around for GoldenEye. ;)

    But you are right about the 180. There was almost a serious Bond movie in there somewhere...
    but I do love it for what it is!

    But GoldenEye was perfect the way it was! Dalton did deserve a third film though, but GoldenEye was fine the way it was.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited September 2012 Posts: 2,629
    It would have had to have been done before 1967 and even then, keeping anything from reaching outer space out of the question. Remember YOLT and Blofeld's Pac-Man gobbling spaceship and the DAF diamond nuclear detonator from space? Ridiculous, huh? Everything in the Bond film series except GE that involved outer space was as corny as a taco shell factory.

    Agree with the thesis. MR would have stayed truer to the novel back then.
  • edited September 2012 Posts: 1,817
    5 from 6 films in the 60's were very close to the novels, so it was very possible that MR would've been, unless Lewis Gilbert directed it.
    Agree.
  • Been cleaning out the attic earlier, bit of a damn job it was too

    I like Moonraker the way it is, if you can cut out the damn nonsense near the end with Bond going into space, blatant cash in on the Star Wars boom of the time, You Only Live Twice went near this in 1967, when space exploration was a big event, but stopped short of actually sending Bond into the heavens, it was the right decision in hindsight. I haven't read all of the novel, but it would of been more faithful on a movie basis if they had done it in the 1960s (Moonraker) I can't argue with thesis on this one
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Agree with the thesis. I think it would logically have been closer to the novel and therefore a very different film.

    Hmmmm. I just tried to picture Sean in the Bondola; shudder!! The MR we got had some potential but just got swamped in silliness. I know some fans love it. I'm just not one of them.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 164</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had MR been filmed in the 60's, it most likely would have been truer to the novel.</b></font>

    Couldn't agree more. I wish it had been so, they should have done it with Connery instead of YOLT.
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 164</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had MR been filmed in the 60's, it most likely would have been truer to the novel.</b></font>

    As i have not read the novel? I can only look upon others here who have. Seem to be the case that the thesis is correct.
  • edited September 2012 Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 164</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Had MR been filmed in the 60's, it most likely would have been truer to the novel.</b></font>

    Absolutely 1000% agreed with thesis. And 1000% better too. Terence Young would have seen to that. Every part of the MR novel ever properly recreated as a scene in other movies works perfectly. The space bomb concept, as noted by Kerim, works better in GE than in DAF for sure. MR is utter Star Wars ripoff B.S or something out of a Helm/Powers flick except for a few California scenes such as the centrifuge and Corinne's death. But I'll say one good thing for it. It plays well to children. No, scratch that. My son saw the film when he was 10 and he knows crap when he sees it :-&
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    If Young had directed it instead of Gilbert, it would have been far truer to the novel. Gilbert in the '60's would have just been another You Only Live Twice.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 165</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>No matter what the future brings, Craig's Bond career will be remembered as the one with Bond's most personal missions.</b></font>
  • Disagree. It does seems like "this time it's personal" every Craig film, but we have no idea what will happen in the future so there's no way anybody can say for sure.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited September 2012 Posts: 24,173
    Disagree. It does seems like "this time it's personal" every Craig film, but we have no idea what will happen in the future so there's no way anybody can say for sure.

    Agreed, but don't you think that three films out of ? will be enough to make people remember Craig like that? ;-) After all, certain things are almost always said about Moore's and Connery's Bonds as well that aren't true for every single one of their films. :)

  • edited September 2012 Posts: 12,837
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Disagree. It does seems like "this time it's personal" every Craig film, but we have no idea what will happen in the future so there's no way anybody can say for sure.

    Agreed, but don't you think that three films out of ? will be enough to make people remember Craig like that? ;-) After all, certain things are almost always said about Moore's and Connery's Bonds as well that aren't true for every single one of their films. :)

    True, but for all we know, a future Bond could do even more personal films than Craig. We just don't know. Craig will be remembered as a Bond with personal missions, but we can't really say if he'll be remembered in the future as the one with the most personal missions.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I stand corrected, @thelivingroyale! ;-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Can't say. I will look back and see him as the Bond with a heart.
  • Posts: 1,817
    Disagree. Dalton's missions were very personal and that ain't the first thing I think of his films. I don't think it will happen also with Craig.
  • We simply can't say at this point, if The Living Daylights had been as personal for Bond as the next entry, then Dalton would be a very good contender for overall winner

    QOS was a personal mission for Craig, Royale wasn't, we still have yet to see the full picture of what Skyfall will eventually become, so at this point, Craig's Bond has only had one hitherto personal mission so to speak. I'm saying thesis is incorrect
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 165</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>No matter what the future brings, Craig's Bond career will be remembered as the one with Bond's most personal missions.</b></font>

    Disagree. CR was about him starting out as a double o, second was pure revenge. And as it stands? We do not really know how Skyfall will play out? And ofcourse we have no idea about the next 2 movies? However? I feel that Quantum will be involved? As they need wrapping up like Connery did with Spectre during his tenure.
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 165</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>No matter what the future brings, Craig's Bond career will be remembered as the one with Bond's most personal missions.</b></font>

    DISAGREE:
    We have no idea what is in store next. It could get much more personal, but it is justhard for us to imagine that now.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Guys, I certainly hope they won't make the Bonds any more personal than they have been already. Let's face it, the more personally involved Bond gets, the more we lose the essentials of the famous escapism the Bond films have brought to us before. Even Fleming was fairly cautious not to make it about Bond all the time.
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    Guys, I certainly hope they won't make the Bonds any more personal than they have been already. Let's face it, the more personally involved Bond gets, the more we lose the essentials of the famous escapism the Bond films have brought to us before. Even Fleming was fairly cautious not to make it about Bond all the time.

    I agree with you @DarthDimi

    Like I said on another thread, if Bond falls in love with every girl he shags or gets upset over every death of an ally he causes, we'll lose what made the character popular. I'm exaggerating, but you get my point.

    That's one of my worries about SF, that it might be too persoal with a story focusing on Bond and M. Pretty much every film since LTK has been personal in some way, it's getting boring.
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 165</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>No matter what the future brings, Craig's Bond career will be remembered as the one with Bond's most personal missions.</b></font>

    I'd have to mildly disagree. We've got to see the end of the Craig era before we can properly judge that.

    Bond stories have had some personal aspect regarding revenge or other motives that personally invest him in a mission. Going all the way back to DN where he states that revenge is something that interests him regarding Quarrel's death. He's pissed over Jill's death in GF and the callous, sadistic manner in which it was done. Even Tibbett's death in AVTAK sets him off. What comes in varying degrees is the way he handles each situation.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 166</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Lazenby's Bond comes closest to Fleming's Bond as written in the novel of the same name.</b></font>
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 166</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Lazenby's Bond comes closest to Fleming's Bond as written in the novel of the same name.</b></font>

    Agree. As many faults as his performance had, intesity was not one of them, and the Bond of the novel OHMSS was quite intense, much more so than he had been before.
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 166</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Lazenby's Bond comes closest to Fleming's Bond as written in the novel of the same name.</b></font>

    As i understand it? I would have to agree with the thesis. Having not read the novel? I do not know how faithful the movie is to the book?
  • THESIS 166
    Agree, but only because Dalton never got to do a movie that was super-close to the books
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