The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

1112113115117118190

Comments

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 181</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Even if Roger Moore stayed on, TLD would have been better received than AVTAK..</b></font>
  • Posts: 176
    Agree. You have a much better plot, no May Day and a better villian (sorry. I did not like Zorin).
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 181</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Even if Roger Moore stayed on, TLD would have been better received than AVTAK..</b></font>

    Disagree in the fact that he would have been far too old for the role then. And just think of those CONVINCING stunt doubles! It would be far too much to take in! ;)
  • Disagree

    The hate for Roger Moore doesn't depend on the films. Even if he was in CR or SF, it still would have been slated
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I agree, though I wonder what would have changed with Moore. For example, that magic carpet ride would have been kept in.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    I think Campbell did a great job of introducing two new James Bond's which too be fair is pretty admirable.

    If you also leave out inflation...

    If you leave out inflation you have no argument.

    I think in today's money, Thunderball would have taken well over a billion dollars. What Goldeneye took worldwide, Thunderball took that in the USA alone.

    Connery was the biggest movie star in the world when he played Bond. Times are different and people conveniently will always say a new Bond is the most successful because they compare it without an inflation adjusted taking of an older film.

    And there were no mulitplexes back in those days. There were no cinemas with 20 screens which helps. And Bond films were banned in countries like China, Russia, Poland because of their anti-Communist sentiment.

    So the newer Bond films have big takings but with more territories than ever before.



  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    Disagree

    The hate for Roger Moore doesn't depend on the films. Even if he was in CR or SF, it still would have been slated

    Roger Moore did a fine job as Bond and was a very sympathetic character. Even Dalton acknowledged that Moore was "Brilliant!". I prefer LALD to CR in terms of style and the wit was jaw dropping in the Moore films.

    I like the new Bond, but it is far more sinister whereas you could take the whole family to see Roger. It has it's place in Bond history and I cannot honestly say I prefer Craig to Moore. I mean I saw people taking 7 year olds into CR and the torture scene is not nice for children to see at such a young age.

    And the English sophistication Roger brought to series is an era that we will never see again. I miss the class and charm of the old films in a way. Sometimes I think I am watching Silence Of The Bond these days.

    But I do think they made a mistake which lead to the misinterpretation of Moore's Bond by giving him sometimes the most unintelligent women which could only be used for comedy purposes.

  • acoppola wrote:
    Disagree

    The hate for Roger Moore doesn't depend on the films. Even if he was in CR or SF, it still would have been slated

    Roger Moore did a fine job as Bond and was a very sympathetic character. Even Dalton acknowledged that Moore was "Brilliant!". I prefer LALD to CR in terms of style and the wit was jaw dropping in the Moore films.

    I like the new Bond, but it is far more sinister whereas you could take the whole family to see Roger. It has it's place in Bond history and I cannot honestly say I prefer Craig to Moore. I mean I saw people taking 7 year olds into CR and the torture scene is not nice for children to see at such a young age.

    And the English sophistication Roger brought to series is an era that we will never see again. I miss the class and charm of the old films in a way. Sometimes I think I am watching Silence Of The Bond these days.

    But I do think they made a mistake which lead to the misinterpretation of Moore's Bond by giving him sometimes the most unintelligent women which could only be used for comedy purposes.

    I agree with you completely. The Moore haters are gonna hate regardless. Even if TLD had the same script, it still would have been hated just because of Moore..which is scandalous
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    acoppola wrote:
    Disagree

    The hate for Roger Moore doesn't depend on the films. Even if he was in CR or SF, it still would have been slated

    Roger Moore did a fine job as Bond and was a very sympathetic character. Even Dalton acknowledged that Moore was "Brilliant!". I prefer LALD to CR in terms of style and the wit was jaw dropping in the Moore films.

    I like the new Bond, but it is far more sinister whereas you could take the whole family to see Roger. It has it's place in Bond history and I cannot honestly say I prefer Craig to Moore. I mean I saw people taking 7 year olds into CR and the torture scene is not nice for children to see at such a young age.

    And the English sophistication Roger brought to series is an era that we will never see again. I miss the class and charm of the old films in a way. Sometimes I think I am watching Silence Of The Bond these days.

    But I do think they made a mistake which lead to the misinterpretation of Moore's Bond by giving him sometimes the most unintelligent women which could only be used for comedy purposes.

    I agree with you completely. The Moore haters are gonna hate regardless. Even if TLD had the same script, it still would have been hated just because of Moore..which is scandalous

    Thank you! I could watch LALD or TMWTGG everyday. But Craig's films though excellent thrillers are nowhere near as enjoyable as Moore's. Moore was beautifully charming when he first meets Solitaire in Kananga's Harlem office. That is a master class in how to behave with a woman.

    And my friend who loves Dalton loves Moore as much even though they are different. Roger Moore's era reminds me how bad in manners our society is becoming. Roger is an influence on my behaviour because it is the essence of the gentleman which is dying these days.

    And though Roger may say Craig is the best, Roger has a greater universality. My dad and mum love Roger!



  • Posts: 19,339
    Well considering Dalton is my least favourite Bond and TLD is my least favourite Bond film then i would obviously agree that Sir Roger couldnt have been any worse,even at the age he would have been in 1987.
  • Posts: 5,745
    I would have loved for them to go with a more "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" route if they kept Moore on. Not so much unbelievable action, more serious, "laid back" spy work. I think TLD's story could have fit that very well.

    But then it wouldn't be Bond anymore.
  • THESIS 181
    Agree- although I love Dalton and wouldn't miss him for the world, even if Roger was in it, it would have been way better than AVTAK. A good movie is a good movie.
    I bet lots of people initially saw AVTAK and word spread that it wasn't very good- not so much that Roger was too old (even though technically he was)
    barryt007 wrote:
    Well considering Dalton is my least favourite Bond and TLD is my least favourite Bond film then i would obviously agree that Sir Roger couldnt have been any worse,even at the age he would have been in 1987.
    crying-indian-1.gif

  • Posts: 7,653
    I agree, I always felt that TLD was written for the strenghts of a Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,243
    SaintMark wrote:
    I agree, I always felt that TLD was written for the strenghts of a Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan.

    It was but because filming had to begin to make the 25th anniversary deadline, they did some minor tweaks. No new Bond film would ever again try to rush an actor into a part without properly evaluating if the script suits the new style.

    And Dalton given the circumstance did a superb job. It is not an easy role and we must remember that Dalton took the serious actor's approach to the part. Cubby was tired of hearing that you don't need to be an actor to play Bond and it was a strategic move on his part in casting Dalton. Look where the series is now as a result. The fruits took many years to flourish but they got there.

    TLD captures the dying embers of The Cold War perfectly and is a controversial film in some ways because of Afghanistan. So it is relevant today.

  • It's no secret that lots of gags in TLD were there just because it was originally going to be Moore's movie- then one movie later we have LTK, which was tailored to Dalton. It didn't ruin the movie by any means, but just imagine if AVTAK was Dalton's first- just to get it out of the way, and as a result TLD was tailored exclusively to Dalton! That would have been the best damn movie ever!
  • Posts: 7,653
    I always find that AVTAK is a far darker story than TLD, so in essence AVTAK could far easier have carried Dalton's approuch than TLD. That said the far more physical aspects of TLD I would sooner have seen with Connery, Brosnan, Dalton, Lazenby or Craig than Moore.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    I don't know what the box-office did, and I'm one of the few (here) that have a guilty pleasure in AVTAK, so disagree. I like TLD a lot as well, but Sir Roger was getting too old. It hurts the film if the lead actor obviously isn't suited for the role (anymore).
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    I love AVTAK. 6th fave Bond film. But it would've been better if Dalton got the part 3 Bond films earlier.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I love AVTAK. 6th fave Bond film. But it would've been better if Dalton got the part 3 Bond films earlier.

    Thank some deity from saving us from that happening.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I couln't say thanks to anyone or thing that allowed AVTAK as we know it to exist.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I couln't say thanks to anyone or thing that allowed AVTAK as we know it to exist.

    It is a great spy-story for a change and I always feel that EON should have made far more use of a certain John Steed character. It would have made the movie cool and suave.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2012 Posts: 13,978
    FYEO* is a good spy thriller (despite a few dumb aspects), AVTAK is just... tired.


    * For a Moore Bond film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 182</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>SF wouldn't have a suitable sub-plot to involve Leiter.</b></font>
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2012 Posts: 13,355
    I'd go further and say it doesn't have a suitable sub-plot to involve Leiter! In this story, he wasn't needed anyway.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 176
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 182</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>SF wouldn't have a suitable sub-plot to involve Leiter.</b></font>

    I don't understand the thesis. Are you saying that before the movie came out you knew it wouldn't have a subplot to involve Leiter? You can't be saying that it doesn't have a suitable subplot since we know Leiter's not in the movie.

    Or do you mean that Leiter couldn't be included because SF would not have had a suitable subplot for him?

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I mean to say that the film as it is offers nothing that could have included Felix.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 5,745
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I mean to say that the film as it is offers nothing that could have included Felix.

    It would have been hilarious to see Felix
    come up at the very end and ask Bond where the hell the hard drive is, and Bond giving an 'oh shet' look. Roll on credits.

    tumblr_mcrjzfEa6g1ri9tkwo5_250.gif
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 182</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>SF wouldn't have a suitable sub-plot to involve Leiter.</b></font>

    Agree with this thesis. Felix as we know is not used in all Bond movies. Skyfall happens to be the latest in the series. Should Quantum return for Bond 24? I am sure our friend from Langley will return once again?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    182 - correct. There was no need to bring Leiter in, except maybe for the harddrive, but that's hardly something for the director of South America, is it? (remember he got whatsisname's job..)
  • Posts: 176
    182 - correct. There was no need to bring Leiter in, except maybe for the harddrive, but that's hardly something for the director of South America, is it? (remember he got whatsisname's job..)

    I'm sure in the next movie, Leiter will be working in another division.

    In regards to the thesis, definately agree.

Sign In or Register to comment.