The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 196</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>DAD would be respected more in a vacuum rather than within the Bond franchise.</b></font>

    Probably. It has very little respect amongst most Bond fans and was definitely better received by the general public who have much lower standards.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 197</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Dalton's films were the least superficial, most character driven Bond films since OHMSS.</b></font>

    Up until the current era, I think that's pretty much a no-brainer. Craig's films thus far are full of character driven performances, especially his. Only those who dislike Craig would deny that, as there's no real facts I can see that should make anyone feel otherwise.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 198</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>George Lazenby didn't believe Bond had a future when he played him.</b></font>

    I definitely feel part of George's demise was in listening to Ronan O'Reilly, but also that he must share in some of the blame as well.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 199</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Skyfall demonstrates that there was never any justified reason to leave Q out of Craig's first two 'serious' films.</b></font>

    Hard to say. It could have been a case of not finding an actor at the time the producers could envision as Q. I'm not saying a new Q or Moneypenny could not have worked right from the onset, but the first two films focused so heavily on Bond and M's interpersonal story and Bond's growth as a person and agent that their screen time would have been very minimal, especially in CR. QOS would have been a better place to do it given the short run time. Ultimately, I don't think either CR or QOS overly suffered for it, it just made both a little different and that freshness of approach is something I've been able to appreciate.
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 199</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Skyfall demonstrates that there was never any justified reason to leave Q out of Craig's first two 'serious' films.</b></font>

    Disagree. Purely because it's about Bond's beginnings as a double o.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2013 Posts: 13,978
    SaintMark wrote:
    I never understood the reason to reboot the series anyhow.

    My thoughts exactly, even after the tasteless DAD, the series didn't need to be rebooted.

    As for thesis #199, cobblers. Whether Bond was a recruit or a veteran agent, Q still could have been worked into the film. In CR, Q could have been the character that injected the tracker into Bond.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,515
    Disagree, i think earlier it whas one movie to soon because i have liked to see there have return Q (Quantum) and the Q (Quatermaster) in one movie. This said Ben Wishaw as new Quatermaster be better then expect. Moneypenny from the other hand [-(
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2013 Posts: 6,289
    Disagree. I liked the stripped-down Bond of CR; it was more like the novel.

    And the reboot *was* necessary because CR was Bond's first mission and it shows him learning how to be an agent.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 199</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Skyfall demonstrates that there was never any justified reason to leave Q out of Craig's first two 'serious' films.</b></font>

    No, Skyfall demonstrates there was good reason to leave Q and Moneypenny out of the reboot. If they had been in CR and QoS they would hve been destracting and out of place. Skyfall gives them a backstory and a personality on which Bond24 can thrive.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The big 200 is coming!!! <:-P
  • Thesis #200 has got to be something special ?

    Thesis #199 - some have mentioned there was never any reason for a re-boot of Bond in 2006 - I'm with that 100 per cent. Just unnecessary for me, I never liked what they did after Brosnan with regard to new direction

    I'm not sure how to answer this, as if not for the damn re-boot, Moneypenny and Q should of course have been included for both releases of QOS and CR, but as we were starting from scratch, so to speak, it does make a certain amount of sense for them to appear in this years release, in that we were never introduced to them before. Bit of a dilemma on this one, so I can't quite provide an answer, but leaning towards No, on this issue, in that I don't agree with thesis
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 199</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Skyfall demonstrates that there was never any justified reason to leave Q out of Craig's first two 'serious' films.</b></font>
    I agree but I'm okay with the way they did it. Perhaps it would have been better if Moneypenny was introduced in QoS and then Q in Skyfall or vice versa but I'm cool with it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 200</b></font>

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkY4Z4MMZwMNWxPrlkdbIyAU5PRkf-u4nl0oLpKIV7JI_sqRAa8w

    <font color=blue size=7><b>James Bond is the epitome of cool, of masculine superiority and of the right kind of justice.</b></font>
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ahhh...
    tumblr_lnmyj2G6a41qmnnibo1_400.gif

    Love you, James! ^:)^
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2013 Posts: 16,351
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 200</b></font>

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkY4Z4MMZwMNWxPrlkdbIyAU5PRkf-u4nl0oLpKIV7JI_sqRAa8w

    <font color=blue size=7><b>James Bond is the epitome of cool, of masculine superiority and of the right kind of justice.</b></font>

    Agreed.

    But James T. Kirk comes to a close second. ;)
    Vintage-james-t-kirk-29414893-320-240.jpg
  • Posts: 1,817
    Thesis 200: James Bond is epitome of...
    cool?: yes, except when he hits woman, that's not cool at all.
    masculine superiority?: over other men, yes but not if refer to "gender or racial superiority".
    right kind of justice?: not really, killing untrial people is not my definition of justice... but he's indeed the right-wing kind of justice!

    But is he the greatest fiction character of all time? Yes, considerably.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    0013 wrote:
    Thesis 200: James Bond is epitome of...
    cool?: yes, except when he hits woman, that's not cool at all.
    masculine superiority?: over other men, yes but not if refer to "gender or racial superiority".
    right kind of justice?: not really, killing untrial people is not my definition of justice... but he's indeed the right-wing kind of justice!

    But is he the greatest fiction character of all time? Yes, considerably.
    Perhaps not the right kind of justice, but certainly a gut-feeling justice. I'll second the first two points though.

  • Posts: 1,817
    0013 wrote:
    Thesis 200: James Bond is epitome of...
    cool?: yes, except when he hits woman, that's not cool at all.
    masculine superiority?: over other men, yes but not if refer to "gender or racial superiority".
    right kind of justice?: not really, killing untrial people is not my definition of justice... but he's indeed the right-wing kind of justice!

    But is he the greatest fiction character of all time? Yes, considerably.
    Perhaps not the right kind of justice, but certainly a gut-feeling justice. I'll second the first two points though.

    It could be justice only "when the structures fail you, and the rules aren't weapons anymore, they're... shackles letting the bad guy get ahead."
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    Thesis 200: James Bond is epitome of...
    cool?: yes, except when he hits woman, that's not cool at all.
    masculine superiority?: over other men, yes but not if refer to "gender or racial superiority".
    right kind of justice?: not really, killing untrial people is not my definition of justice... but he's indeed the right-wing kind of justice!

    But is he the greatest fiction character of all time? Yes, considerably.
    Perhaps not the right kind of justice, but certainly a gut-feeling justice. I'll second the first two points though.

    It could be justice only "when the structures fail you, and the rules aren't weapons anymore, they're... shackles letting the bad guy get ahead."

    ISn't it in 'For Your Eyes Only' that Bond considers this, but goes after whatsisname in the US from Canada for 'he used the law of the jungle on defenseless people, so the law of the jungle should be upon him too'or something to that extend?
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 200</b></font>

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkY4Z4MMZwMNWxPrlkdbIyAU5PRkf-u4nl0oLpKIV7JI_sqRAa8w

    <font color=blue size=7><b>James Bond is the epitome of cool, of masculine superiority and of the right kind of justice.</b></font>

    Agree big time! The thesis states it perfectly! :-bd
  • Posts: 269
    slightly disagree : James Bond is the epitome of cool because he doesn't give a damn about being or proving he's the epitome of masculine superiority and of the right kind of justice (which he is).
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 200</b></font>

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkY4Z4MMZwMNWxPrlkdbIyAU5PRkf-u4nl0oLpKIV7JI_sqRAa8w

    <font color=blue size=7><b>James Bond is the epitome of cool, of masculine superiority and of the right kind of justice.</b></font>

    yellow.gif
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Ytterbium wrote:
    slightly disagree : James Bond is the epitome of cool because he doesn't give a damn about being or proving he's the epitome of masculine superiority and of the right kind of justice (which he is).

    @Ytterbium, so you basically disagree with something you agree with. ;-)

  • No, as it has to work as a whole

    It's fine if you want to view it only as say Connery in the early 1960s, or the Dalton era, or one or two of the Craig releases, but what about the rest of the time ? I see the question as each Bond actor's tenure, rather than James Bond as a whole. Maybe I did wrong, but I'm staying with it

    Watch Connery in Diamonds are Forever (for example), and then ask yourself the question

    Sorry Dimitri, but for thesis #200, can't agree with that
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    No, as it has to work as a whole

    It's fine if you want to view it only as say Connery in the early 1960s, or the Dalton era, or one or two of the Craig releases, but what about the rest of the time ? I see the question as each Bond actor's tenure, rather than James Bond as a whole. Maybe I did wrong, but I'm staying with it

    Watch Connery in Diamonds are Forever (for example), and then ask yourself the question

    Sorry Dimitri, but for thesis #200, can't agree with that

    I thought of my favorite Bonds and answered. I thought of Dan's Bond instantly with this debate.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,134
    *BUMP*
    Is it possible to get this thread back in action?

    I may not have contributed greatly to it, but there has been far too much trolling, and mindless threads from certain quarters.
    What happended to a good debate, or a topic we could really sink our teeth into?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    @Benny, I desired a bit of a break after #200 but I feel fit enough to make it happen again. Problem is, there was hardly any debate going on most of the time. People dropped an isolated yes or no and that was it. But, we'll see how it goes now. :-) Just keep watching the skies this space.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 201</b></font>
    (And apologies if already debated issues come up again.)

    im_back_5236427_lrg.jpg

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Elliot Carver is "slightly more contemporary and plausible than usual". [Roger Ebert]</b></font>
  • Posts: 4,813
    Thesis 201:
    Hmmm- Contemporary I get-- but by plausible does he mean 'realistic'? If so I'd disagree. OO6 & Sanchez, just off the top of my head were far more realistic.
    If anything it seems Carver was over the top like some of Moore's villains.

    I will agree though that his use of the media was very contemporary
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Contemporary? Yep. Definetly.

    Plausible? Nope. Sanchez, Le Chiffre and plenty more were all more plausible than a Rupert Murdoch type trying to start WW3.

    I do like TND but the whole film is pretty implausible and ridiculous. But just like YOLT and TSWLM, it's also tons of fun, so I can forgive it for being stupid.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I think it's the opposite. Despite Carver's work he seems like more of an over the top throw back to the villains of old. So over the top in fact, he seems more implausible.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Ebert said that? Hmmm. Maybe he meant is GOALS were more plausible? Getting broadcasting rights in China is something many men in his position would want at that time?
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    No, Carver isn't plausible one bit. To start a war just because to get headlines is just... wrong. He could've brought other news agencies and in that way broaden his empire for the money he used to build a Stealth ship..

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