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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    Let's see....

    Solange - Bond caused her death by killing Dimitrios, leaving the next suspect to be Solange.
    Vesper - She took her own life. Though he failed to save Vesper, Bond can't be blamed for her death.
    Fields - Signed her own death warrant by tripping up Elvis on the stairs.
    Severine - Bond doesn't even attempt to save her.
    M - Like Solange, he might as well have killed M himself. He takes M back to Skyfall without the assistance of other 00's. Did Bond think that Silva would follow by himself?

    Thesis 229: He failed to save 3 of the 5, so I am going to agree with this one. Bond should go into the funeral business, he'd make a killing.

    Not entirely true. M was told to hide out and stay out of the way and as always, she refused to heed Bond's warnings. She got herself killed so disagree with you and the thesis in general. Every Bond short of Dalton has failed to protect a lady. Lazenby Bond losing his wife takes the cake in this respect.

    And M survived the first two movies. Eve survived, and Camille got rescued just fine. Now on the other hand, when it comes to villains...
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Ok, the deaths are a bit much - I really wanted Severine not to die in Skyfall. I felt we had had enough of the gals getting killed off. But Bond failing to rescue ... yes/ no, and I feel mostly no. Disagree.
    But I do think we'd better have the main Bond babe at the end of the next film alive. I really hope so. For me, death by association with Bond is getting old, especially for the main Bond girl.
  • QuarrelQuarrel
    Posts: 96
    4EverBonded wrote:

    But I do think we'd better have the main Bond babe at the end of the next film alive. I really hope so. For me, death by association with Bond is getting old, especially for the main Bond girl.


    I agree with you for the most part. But the thought of Craig's Bond riding off into the sunset with a babe on his arm seems little........out of place. That's just not where the franchise is at right now.

    On the other hand, I could totally see an ending like the one in the novel version of Moonraker (not the film), where........
    Bond saves the girl and plans to continue their romance only to find out she's engaged to another man (or married, I can't remember which at the moment). So he saves the girl, only to lose the girl, in a manner of speaking.

    As a side note, I just used the spoiler tag - successfully - for the first time. I'm feeling rather proud of myself at the moment. :-)
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    CommanderRoss wrote:
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    Let's see....

    Solange - Bond caused her death by killing Dimitrios, leaving the next suspect to be Solange.
    Vesper - She took her own life. Though he failed to save Vesper, Bond can't be blamed for her death.
    Fields - Signed her own death warrant by tripping up Elvis on the stairs.
    Severine - Bond doesn't even attempt to save her.
    M - Like Solange, he might as well have killed M himself. He takes M back to Skyfall without the assistance of other 00's. Did Bond think that Silva would follow by himself?

    Thesis 229: He failed to save 3 of the 5, so I am going to agree with this one. Bond should go into the funeral business, he'd make a killing.

    Not entirely true. M was told to hide out and stay out of the way and as always, she refused to heed Bond's warnings. She got herself killed so disagree with you and the thesis in general. Every Bond short of Dalton has failed to protect a lady. Lazenby Bond losing his wife takes the cake in this respect.

    And M survived the first two movies. Eve survived, and Camille got rescued just fine. Now on the other hand, when it comes to villains...

    The villains rarely survive compared to the women. Koskov was the last one who did.

    Trying to make Craig Bond more culpable than the others is just trying to find fault with him, though I know that isn't something Dimi is trying to do. I am amazed how many self professed Bond fans have perpetrated this myth that Craig Bond got M killed. It's complete BS and plain to hear if you are paying any sort of attention to the movie. Bond told her to stay out of sight when Silva came, told her to head for the priest hole when he did, instead M trying to act like a competent field operative instead of the bean counter she was is what gets her killed. She never takes that bullet if she doesn't fire on Silva's henchmen, they were told not to kill her if they found her. They don't know who is shooting at them and they return fire in self defense, like anyone with half a brain would do.

  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    (in honour of MajorDmythe)
    Let's see....

    Solange - Bond caused her death by killing Dimitrios, leaving her as a possible witness of what could possible gone wrong being the mistress and all that.
    Vesper - She took her own life after falling for Bond which seems to be a rather deathly pasttime for any woman.
    Fields - Signed her own death warrant after joining Bond instead of doing the job M had given her, Mr Bonds boyish charme is a killer.
    Severine - Bond doesn't even attempt to save her after he had used her in more than one way to obtain his objective.
    M - Like Solange, he might as well have killed M himself. He takes M back to Skyfall without the assistance of other 00's or any other special unit an M would have at her disposal especially after the attack on the hearing she would have gotten any protection she would have asked for. Did Bond think that Silva would follow by himself?

    Thesis 229: He failed to save 5 of the 5, so I am going to agree with this one. Bond should go into the funeral business, he'd make a killing.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Agree, Bond is a bit of a numpty these days.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 230</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FRWL is the most sexually laden of Connery's Bond films.</b></font>
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    Agree. Bond pimping for England is the central plot.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    I count certain clear cases, besides the usual puns:

    - Klebb's lesbian advances
    - Sex as a bargaining chip
    - Voyeurism
    - Kerim's sex pet crawling on the bed in total desire

    I agree with the thesis.
  • Sir_James_MoloneySir_James_Moloney
    Posts: 388
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I count certain clear cases, besides the usual puns:

    - Klebb's lesbian advances
    - Sex as a bargaining chip
    - Voyeurism
    - Kerim's sex pet crawling on the bed in total desire

    I agree with the thesis.

    Also - and forgive me as this probably sounds a bit odd but was something I always noticed - Connery's deliberate post-coital vocal delivery of his lines to Tanya when he's telling her they have to go to the dining car. It's the only time I can think of in any of the Bond films where, after having sex, a character actually acts like they've just had sex.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Now I want to watch it again! ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 2013 Posts: 24,256
    Sir_James_Moloney wrote:
    Also - and forgive me as this probably sounds a bit odd but was something I always noticed - Connery's deliberate post-coital vocal delivery of his lines to Tanya when he's telling her they have to go to the dining car. It's the only time I can think of in any of the Bond films where, after having sex, a character actually acts like they've just had sex.

    You're right, @Sir_James_Moloney! I never noticed that before. ;)) Naughty scene, in a way. There may be one other moment in Connery's days that follows your description: when Bond and Tiffany have a cigarette in bed (the fools) and they discuss moving to Hong Kong. ;)
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 230</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FRWL is the most sexually laden of Connery's Bond films.</b></font>

    Agree, the thesis says it all really.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    Let's see...

    Dr. No has Sylvia Trench falling for Bond in the first scene in the casino, followed by the first Moneypenny scene, then of course Sylvia in Bond's apartment. We get the hotel clerk with the hots for Bond, and clearly hours of Bond and Miss Taro, not to mention Honey Ryder's entrance.

    Goldfinger has the dancing girl in the PTS, Jill Masterson, and the "conversion" of Pussy Galore.

    Thunderball has Fiona Volpe, first and foremost, as well as Paula, Domino, and Patricia Fearing, and possibly even the French agent from the PTS, setting the record for most girls bedded in a single film.

    You Only Live Twice has "best duck" girl, Helga Brandt, Aki, and Kissy Suzuki, who spends all her time in her underwear.

    Diamonds are Forever has the Cairo girl, Tiffany Case, Plenty O'Toole, and I suppose Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd.

    I'd say From Russia With Love takes it, but Thunderball and Dr. No are right on its heels.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So yes, I agree. Especially as bedding Tania was the main mission. :) Then all kinds of sexual innuendo, situations, and nods were thrown in liberally throughout the film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited July 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Well, the main seduction mission, the belly dance, Kerim's mistress and some clear innuendos do make a very strong point for FRWL, but I think the thing that helps put it over the top is the scene in the gypsy camp (post-shootout) where Bond is basically going to have a Ménage à Trois with the two gypsy fighters he has been given the pick of. The film isn't shy about it in the slightest, and Bond looks very visibly excited by the idea (understandably).

    So, I somewhat agree, though some of the other films have a similar amount of sexual content and innuendo.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    I agree with the thesis.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Yes, back to the salt mines. FRWL was quite the seedy...caper.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Soundofthesinners wrote:
    I'd say From Russia With Love takes it, but Thunderball and Dr. No are right on its heels.

    I was also going to nominate DN and TB as runner ups. Good observation.
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    where Bond is basically going to have a Ménage à Trois with the two gypsy fighters he has been given the pick of

    That's a great point. I had forgotten about that!

    So yes, I agree with the thesis. There are so many sexual overtones present in the film, whether obvious or subtle, that it certainly takes the cake for the Connery Bonds!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited July 2013 Posts: 28,694
    pachazo wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    where Bond is basically going to have a Ménage à Trois with the two gypsy fighters he has been given the pick of

    That's a great point. I had forgotten about that!

    So yes, I agree with the thesis. There are so many sexual overtones present in the film, whether obvious or subtle, that it certainly takes the cake for the Connery Bonds!

    Hell, throw in Bond actually having a sex tape-albiet without his notification-and FRWL really does take the proverbial cake here!
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    pachazo wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    where Bond is basically going to have a Ménage à Trois with the two gypsy fighters he has been given the pick of

    That's a great point. I had forgotten about that!

    So yes, I agree with the thesis. There are so many sexual overtones present in the film, whether obvious or subtle, that it certainly takes the cake for the Connery Bonds!

    Hell, throw in Bond actually having a sex tape-albiet without his notification-and FRWL really does take the proverbial cake here!
    I was about to make a case for TB 'do you like cages mr. Bond?' but I guess indeed FRWL takes the cake there.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    DarthDimi wrote:
    FRWL is the most sexually laden of Connery's Bond films.
    Ah, so this is the real reason many hold FRWL in high regard...

    Trench makes Bond late
    Klebb is a leg woman
    Bond makesh a shexsh tape
    Kerim's in and out of the salt mines
    M spends a night in Tokyo...

    I'm steaming up- this thesis is red hot!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    You're sure about the spelling of 'late', @QBranch? ;-)
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited July 2013 Posts: 14,680
    Ha ha, not entirely, Dimi. Actually, I think he arrives on time ;)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    As they say in the film, @QBranch, great sport! ;-)
  • saunderssaunders Living in a world of avarice and deceit
    Posts: 987
    Absolutely agree, as well as the above mentioned lesbianism, pimp prostitution, and threesomes I would also add Grant's foot fetish ('I won't kill you until you crawl over here and kiss my foot'), oil massage, S&M (Klebb's knuckleduster and riding crop), exotic dancing, bondage (the dead man in the back of Klebb's car is very tightly bound), erotic wrestling, oral sex (Tatiana's mouth being 'just the right size'), voyeurism and suggested public exhibitionism (wearing a night gown in Piccadilly).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,256
    saunders wrote:
    suggested public exhibitionism (wearing a night gown in Piccadilly).

    Good one, @saunders. ;-) Quite the sight that must have been, wouldn't you say? ;-)


    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 231</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>TMWTGG is the most sexually explicit of the Moore Bonds.</b></font>
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Thesis 231: Undecided really? Why sexually explicit? If it was the whole series? I would say Brosnan and Berry? On reflection? I would disagree with the thesis.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I will disagree. The Bond films are quite clear on the coitus that occurs in them, so I see no reason why TMWTGG deserves a mention above all the rest when you could argue that FRWL alone is already 10X more open about its sexual content (as we proved with the last thesis) when compared to TMWTGG.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I will disagree. The Bond films are quite clear on the coitus that occurs in them, so I see no reason why TMWTGG deserves a mention above all the rest when you could argue that FRWL alone is already 10X more open about its sexual content (as we proved with the last thesis) when compared to TMWTGG.
    But it wasn't Moore in FRWL ;-)

    Anyway. Of course it's part of the story (third nipple) and Chew Mee shows quite a lot of skin, but does it make the film really stand out? I'll agree on the basis that I can't think of any other film of Moore that strikes me as 'explicit' (for a Bondfilm that is) but TMWTGG doesn't really stand out much.

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