The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I completely agree with Thesis 234 and 236. I disagree with 235, and definitely agree with 237. I was under the impression that they weren't allowed to use Brosnan anymore, as he is the current Bond under contract, but didn't they do FRWL with Connery's likeness? Also, what's the obsession with constantly remaking GE with a different actor? It's unnecessary. Leave GE N64 how it is and do something new.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Agreed, should have been Brosnan, definitely.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited July 2013 Posts: 13,978
    I'm not Brosnan's biggest fan, but I think it should have been Brosnan in GE 2010. Though even with Brosnan, it would still have been a woefully bland game. Agree.
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I completely agree with Thesis 234 and 236. I disagree with 235, and definitely agree with 237. I was under the impression that they weren't allowed to use Brosnan anymore, as he is the current Bond under contract, but didn't they do FRWL with Connery's likeness? Also, what's the obsession with constantly remaking GE with a different actor? It's unnecessary. Leave GE N64 how it is and do something new.

    I believe that was because there was no current Bond, when the game was released in 2005.
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 237</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The most recent GE video game should not have used Craig's image but Brosnan's instead.</b></font>

    Didn't need remaking? The original is the best still for me! So Agree but down to my own thoughts on it. It was just desperation for a successful game.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 238</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Whitaker was, all things considered, the first obviously American Bond villain.</b></font>
  • Posts: 5,634
    I don't play video releases, but having a Craig image instead of the correct Bond for that release, what were they thinking ? Can't believe someone would make such a fundamental error

    Was Joe Don Baker really 'villainous' as Brad Whitaker though. I found him more amusing than anything else, and only a slight improvement on his Jack Wade character. Yes, thesis seems accurate enough when you look back at the series. Took a quarter century to include an american for the main adversary, and when they did, it was all rather disappointing. Would of liked to have seen another name for that years release, but don't ask me who
  • Posts: 169
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 238</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Whitaker was, all things considered, the first obviously American Bond villain.</b></font>

    Sure. While several American actors (Joseph Wiseman, Telly Savalas, Yaphet Kotto, Christopher Walken) played villains prior to Joe Don Baker's role, none of the characters were Americans before Whitaker.

  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 238</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Whitaker was, all things considered, the first obviously American Bond villain.</b></font>

    Agree with this thesis. Wouldn't mind a real sinister American villain? But who could pull it off? Who knows? Certainly nobody springs to my mind?
  • Posts: 6,396
    RogueAgent wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 238</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Whitaker was, all things considered, the first obviously American Bond villain.</b></font>

    Agree with this thesis. Wouldn't mind a real sinister American villain? But who could pull it off? Who knows? Certainly nobody springs to my mind?

    I always wanted to see James Gandolfini play a Bond villain. Sadly, that is no longer going to happen. He would have been fantastic though.
  • Posts: 12,526
    RogueAgent wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 238</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Whitaker was, all things considered, the first obviously American Bond villain.</b></font>

    Agree with this thesis. Wouldn't mind a real sinister American villain? But who could pull it off? Who knows? Certainly nobody springs to my mind?

    I always wanted to see James Gandolfini play a Bond villain. Sadly, that is no longer going to happen. He would have been fantastic though.

    He certainly was a brilliant actor. Sadly taken from us all far too early in his life.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I always wanted to see James Gandolfini play a Bond villain. Sadly, that is no longer going to happen. He would have been fantastic though.

    I totally agree, @WillyGalore! In fact, why they didn't cast him in the Brosnan era is beyond me. Plenty of possible parts... in fact, that might inspire me to a new entry in another thread. ;-)

  • Posts: 6,396
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I always wanted to see James Gandolfini play a Bond villain. Sadly, that is no longer going to happen. He would have been fantastic though.

    I totally agree, @WillyGalore! In fact, why they didn't cast him in the Brosnan era is beyond me. Plenty of possible parts... in fact, that might inspire me to a new entry in another thread. ;-)

    One of the greatest performances for one of the greatest screen characters we'll ever see and yet he was woefully overlooked by Hollywood for the most part throughout his career.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 2,402
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I always wanted to see James Gandolfini play a Bond villain. Sadly, that is no longer going to happen. He would have been fantastic though.

    I totally agree, @WillyGalore! In fact, why they didn't cast him in the Brosnan era is beyond me. Plenty of possible parts... in fact, that might inspire me to a new entry in another thread. ;-)

    One of the greatest performances for one of the greatest screen characters we'll ever see and yet he was woefully overlooked by Hollywood for the most part throughout his career.

    Ahh, but he was fantastic in the few movies he did. True Romance is obviously the one I think of first, but then even the movies he did, like 8mm, he still gave a stellar performance. Everyone who has even the slightest inclination towards acting must watch his ItAS interview.

    Mod edit: no s-bombs please.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 6,396
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I always wanted to see James Gandolfini play a Bond villain. Sadly, that is no longer going to happen. He would have been fantastic though.

    I totally agree, @WillyGalore! In fact, why they didn't cast him in the Brosnan era is beyond me. Plenty of possible parts... in fact, that might inspire me to a new entry in another thread. ;-)

    One of the greatest performances for one of the greatest screen characters we'll ever see and yet he was woefully overlooked by Hollywood for the most part throughout his career.

    Ahh, but he was fantastic in the few movies he did. True Romance is obviously the one I think of first, but then even the movies he did, like 8mm, he still gave a stellar performance. Everyone who has even the slightest inclination towards acting must watch his ItAS interview.

    Oh yes, he was always wonderful no matter what piece of crap film he was in. He was the standout in films such as The Mexican and Killing Them Softly.

    What I admired most though was his understanding of comedy. His timing was impeccable and was one of the things that made you just love Tony Soprano.
  • Agree with thesis and @Dimi and @Willy, I'm a huge Galdolfini fan myself and would have loved to have seen him in a Bond film. I'm still holding out hope for Tim Curry though :)
  • Posts: 6,396
    I used to work with a woman who loved Tim Curry and was a big fan of his.

    Well, when I say 'loved' I really mean 'obsessed'.

    Well, when I say 'fan' I really mean 'stalker'

    ;)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I'll agree with this thesis, especially with the word "obviously". He is the perfect American stereotype; arrogant, rude and domineering. For some reason his personality didn't change when he played Jack Wade...
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 239</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Dalton was better at being unintentionally funny whereas Brosnan acted out the funny bits.</b></font>
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited August 2013 Posts: 16,351
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 239</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Dalton was better at being unintentionally funny whereas Brosnan acted out the funny bits.</b></font>

    Disagree. Dalton wasn't very good with Humor and it really showed in his performance. Brosnan already knew how to handle comedy from Remington Steele and Mrs. Doubtfire so he could do the funny bits naturally without being over the top about it.

    To Dalton's credit, the only joke he did that was funny was... "I know a great restaurant in Karachi, we should just make Dinner!"
  • Posts: 6,396
    I don't think Tim was ever comfortable with the humour written for him in the Bond films, especially TLD. The script at that time had been written without the lead actor in place so was clearly aimed at a generic Bond performance. It was tailored more towards showcasing his strengths as production went on but he could never deliver a quip in the same manner as Connery, Moore or Brosnan (I think Craig has a similar weakness). Where TD really shone was LTK, which was more in keeping with his portrayal. Even the line "more of a problem eliminator" is more chilling than funny.

    It's all a bit ironic though because if you've ever seen TD's performances as the villain in The Rocketeer and Hot Fuzz, he is really funny and looks like he's thoroughly enjoying himself.

    I guess it's because he was relaxed in these films where as he took his role as Bond very seriously and wanted to deliver a performance as close to Fleming's creation as possible.
  • I think there's a bit of truth in the thesis. Dalton was easily the least funny of the Bond actors (although his line "I hope you don't snore Q" was perfectly delivered with the right amount of grouch), although he seemed to get better with that in later films and I loved his humor in his "Chuck" role as a Russian spy. Matter of fact humor seemed to work better for him. And Brosnan's humor just seemed too contrived, he played better off of someone else providing the true laughs (Zukovsky, Wade) or a ridiculous situation.

    Ever so slightly, agree with thesis.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 18,270
    I disagree in the strongest terms. Humour (yes, even unintentional) and Dalton didn't mix (e.g. "I got the boot!") and nor should they, I suppose. It wasn't what his Bond was about in any way but I suppose it was the shackles of a Moore Bond film and a kind of "God is good, but the Devil's not that bad either" kind of approach, if you will. At least they removed the dreadful magic carpet scene from TLD!
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 239</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Dalton was better at being unintentionally funny whereas Brosnan acted out the funny bits.</b></font>

    I would agree with this thesis! TD humour was acted out seriously but it worked. Whether he meant it too or not?
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Overall I would agree with this thesis. Dalton was not great with the humorous lines but everybody knew that and so they kept it to a minimum. While Brosnan was better at delivering a quip than Dalton, he was nowhere near as gifted as Connery and Moore were with it. So the endless parade of one liners just gets to be very frustrating by the end of the Brosnan era.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I agree with the thesis. IMO, a great comical moment in TLD occurs when Bond tells Kara that they can't get the cello at the conservatory and is subsequently seen waiting for her in the car. Yet it isn't laboured comedy. Even when Dalton delivers intentionally funny lines, I find him mostly successful in doing so without making it overtly look like studied comedy. Now I'm not saying Dalton holds a flawless comedy record in the Bonds, but there are more great deliveries than failures IMO and it's mostly due to Dalton producing his lines without wanting so badly to make us smile.

    Brosnan has great funny moments too. I love to watch him enjoy playing with the BMW remote control on the back-seat of the car. And some lines were delivered very well, like during his bits with MP and Q in GE. But the "Give the people what they want!" and "I thought watching your TV shows was..." lines are in my book examples of where the comedy isn't necessarily flawed but more obviously acted, less natural.

  • Posts: 135
    RogueAgent wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 239</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Dalton was better at being unintentionally funny whereas Brosnan acted out the funny bits.
    So we are in agreeance- Mr. Dalton opted for humorlessness, whereas Mr. Brosnan dovetailed his humor with relish, and a careful acting study.</b></font>
  • Posts: 2,402
    Dalton had a deadpan delivery of the one liners, and it works for me when compared to his portrayal. I've never understood all the fuss about him and the one liners; it's not as if he had a whole bunch of them and I think he did fine with the ones he did have. Dalton didn't try to be funny: he cracked a quip every now and then more to comment on his enemies' predicament rather than to create laughter.

    Brosnan on the other hand was over-the-top with his one-liners. I'll agree with the thesis.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Dalton had a deadpan delivery of the one liners, and it works for me when compared to his portrayal. I've never understood all the fuss about him and the one liners; it's not as if he had a whole bunch of them and I think he did fine with the ones he did have. Dalton didn't try to be funny: he cracked a quip every now and then more to comment on his enemies' predicament rather than to create laughter.

    Brosnan on the other hand was over-the-top with his one-liners. I'll agree with the thesis.

    Precisely my point, @StirredNotShaken. He didn't try to be funny and that's why he succeeded. Craig has inherited a little bit of that too IMO. He knows when to downplay the comedy for maximum effect. Of course by the time we get to CR, the people behind the screens had finally come to understand the power of contradiction: Craig's comedic lines work best when the situation seems to least warrant them. Here we have the painful torture scene, yet the crowds I saw the film with laughed each time when the ball scratching line came up. There's the little finger remark, the last hand comment, ... Make sure we have no reason to expect some wit, and then slam one in our face. That's how you do it in the Bonds, I'd say.

  • Posts: 2,402
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Dalton had a deadpan delivery of the one liners, and it works for me when compared to his portrayal. I've never understood all the fuss about him and the one liners; it's not as if he had a whole bunch of them and I think he did fine with the ones he did have. Dalton didn't try to be funny: he cracked a quip every now and then more to comment on his enemies' predicament rather than to create laughter.

    Brosnan on the other hand was over-the-top with his one-liners. I'll agree with the thesis.

    Precisely my point, @StirredNotShaken. He didn't try to be funny and that's why he succeeded. Craig has inherited a little bit of that too IMO. He knows when to downplay the comedy for maximum effect. Of course by the time we get to CR, the people behind the screens had finally come to understand the power of contradiction: Craig's comedic lines work best when the situation seems to least warrant them. Here we have the painful torture scene, yet the crowds I saw the film with laughed each time when the ball scratching line came up. There's the little finger remark, the last hand comment, ... Make sure we have no reason to expect some wit, and then slam one in our face. That's how you do it in the Bonds, I'd say.

    Exactly. Even though I was but eleven when I saw CR in the theater, I totally got what they were doing with the ball scratching comment and I laughed with everyone else. Very effective.

    Point is, though, Dalton was fine with the one-liners. Deadpan snarker, as some would say.
  • @Dimi- I forgot TLD'S "why didn't you learn the violin" line. The funniest one he uttered during his brief tenure. I still laugh when I hear it said.
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