The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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Comments

  • Yeah it is alittle tough to watch at times.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Sorry...I missed the "Post 9-11" part of the thesis.

    I'd actually say the opposite; TLD is enlightening in providing some historical context to the current state of affairs we are in now. It makes the film all the more intriguing watching it now.

    Exactly. It adds to TLD's time capsule quality reflecting what was then happening in the world of 1987 espionage and international intrigue.

  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Perhaps but it doesn't spoil the film for me.

    Same here. I've never really connected the Mujahideen with Al Qaeda. To me, it's more of a coincidence than anything else.

    TLD was released 14 years before 9/11. In the historical context, the US, UK and others were supporting bin Laden against the Soviets in 1987. Look at it from the historical context of 1987 and try not to connect dots that aren't there.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    My appreciation, gentlemen, for your persistent input in this thread.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2012 Posts: 13,978
    Even post 11/9, this doesn't bother me. If the film had been made after, then there would be cause for awkwardness. But not with it being made 14 years before.
  • Posts: 12,526
    There have been a number of films dealing with 9/11 since those events have taken place. A film that took place 14 years before something had happened? You should not read too much into it i think?

    A terrorist group could mimick anything from any action film really if they so decide? You could then argue that well perhaps Bond should not ally himself with whoever incase 10 years down the line they completely change their stance on something? Due to change of goverments?

    Same with the action sequences? Would it be a case of "We cannot do that because of copycats?" Nothing would ever get made like horror movies......etc.
  • Posts: 11,425
    How can you not relate western support for the mujahadeen lunatics with their training camps and the whole Islamic extremist stuff? I'm a big fan of TLD, but they made a mistake giving the film such a 'real' political context. That stuff doesn't figure in most of the other films.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    Getafix wrote:
    Hilarious. You're totally right. It's not just post 9/11 though - that bunch were pretty unpleasant back then. I remember my dad saying when TLD came out that the mujahadeen were a bunch of evil scumbags even then. The producers made a serious mistake allying Bond with Art Malik's 'civilised' warlord. Infact it's a lesson for all Bond films - don't make things too political or grounded in current affairs. Bond is best off battling shadowy crime syndicates rather than nation states. Even during the cold war the Ruskies were usually portrayed as slightly grumpy but essentially well-meaning, while the real baddies were always trying to kick off WW3.

    Absolutely agree. The film turns way too political at the end. The filmmakers seem to have forgotten the quote about Afghanistan being the "graveyard of empires."

    What was brilliant about making Spectre the villain in the early films was that, although at times it seemed like the West vs. the Russians, it never really was. And consequently, those films seem less dated even though they are a lot older than TLD.

    A funny anachronism is Kananga's line in LALD about him and the phone company being a "monopoly for years to come." He couldn't have foreseen that the U.S. would break up the phone monopoly.

  • Reasons like this were precisely why EON always tried to avoid current political situations. You never know what the future holds.
  • Posts: 1,817
    I think only a neocon would get unconfortable. I don't want to offend nobody, a have a huge respect for all the victims of terrorism, both of State terrorism and group terrorism.
    The Living Daylights should be seen in the context of the Cold War and far from representing historical facts however it shows one particularly important: the early support of the Western powers to the enemys of Communism that later changes to actions against them. Afhganistan it's an example, but also is Dominican Republic under Trujillo and Panama ruled by Noriega.
    "...when one's young, it seems very easy to distinguish beween right and wrong, but as one gets older it becomes more difficult." (CR, p.158).
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2012 Posts: 24,173
    0013 wrote:
    I think only a neocon would get unconfortable. I don't want to offend nobody, a have a huge respect for all the victims of terrorism, both of State terrorism and group terrorism.
    The Living Daylights should be seen in the context of the Cold War and far from representing historical facts however it shows one particularly important: the early support of the Western powers to the enemys of Communism that later changes to actions against them. Afhganistan it's an example, but also is Dominican Republic under Trujillo and Panama ruled by Noriega.
    "...when one's young, it seems very easy to distinguish beween right and wrong, but as one gets older it becomes more difficult." (CR, p.158).

    Amen to that, sir! :)

    Moving on,

    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 020</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>The killing, free love making and sometimes physical violence in the Bonds should not prevent -10 yr boys from watching them at will.</b></font>

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,288
    Agreed. It's a harsh world and Bond makes it a bit more tolerable.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Agreed, however these last two Bonds have gotten somewhat more violent and gritty and I would not take a 10 year old to see them.
  • edited January 2012 Posts: 1,856
    I Knew a 7 year old who had seen Bond so no, heck i was 10 years.... Just
  • Posts: 105
    Well I was 10 when i saw my first Bond in the cinema (GE) and I turned out ok (I think).

    But the thing with movie ratings these days is they're getting away with more at lower ratings. I seem to remember there being a whole hoohah over the dark knight when it got a 12A rating in the UK.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I want to say categorically yes - but I do think the violence in CR and QOS, especially played so realistically and without humor, is a bit much for a 10 year old, maybe not good; or at least with parent. Just my gut reaction.
  • I agree. There are far worse things out there shown on basic cable.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2012 Posts: 13,978
    Disagree. I was watching Friday The 13th and other horror films when I wasn't that much older than 10. So Bond is nothing in comparison, violence wise I mean.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Disagree. I was watching Friday The 13th and other horror films when I wasn't that much older than 10. So Bond is nothing in comparison, violence wise I mean.

    Don't you agree then, Major? ;-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,715
    Watching Bond when you are 10 years old is very dangerous... watching a Bond film at that age can start a very persistent addiction to the world of James Bond... I watched GE when I was 10, and I am totally addicted to Bond now !!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    Watching Bond when you are 10 years old is very dangerous... watching a Bond film at that age can start a very persistent addiction to the world of James Bond... I watched GE when I was 10, and I am totally addicted to Bond now !!

    It's okay, DC. We can talk about it. We're all in this together. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards salvation. Only... I don't think I want to get rid of it just yet. ;-)
  • Posts: 12,526
    There is alotof violence on general tv nowadays anyway? And with film piracy....etc too? Kids will always find a way to view something that society says no too! Its like holding a red rag to a bull when you say to a child? No you cannot or something similiar?
  • Posts: 7,653
    As a parent I do have some responsibilties and hiding behind the reasoning that kids will watch anything means you should be checking more on your kids instead of your telly, ipad, laptop.
    I like to spend time with mine and find that she is generaly interested in some stuff but when two folks kiss she is mostly disgusted. When it comes to violence they are into fairytail violence, when it isn't real then it is fine (Harry Potter and such). When we get to a more realistic portrayal of live we find we have a lot of explaining to do.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited January 2012 Posts: 2,629
    I feel it should ultimately be the parents decision. The first Bond film I was allowed to watch was MR when I was 14. Our society is more desensitized in 2012 than it was in 1979.

    Considering the amount of sex and violence young people are already exposed to on TV and the internet, I don't think watching a Bond film is going to do a whole lot to influence the corruption of a young child. There's plenty of TV shows that will do more to corrupt a young mind than a Bond film will.
  • Films today are more violent than they were say 40 years ago, and such releases of the time such as A Clockwork Orange or Get Carter just look tame in comparison by todays standards. Today kids most likely get to see all sorts of unsavory bits and debasement with what's available today as when they were more protected from years past. Bonds just recently have been more aimed at mature teenagers than PG kids from before, Bond has got decidely more nasty and vicious since Craig came along, don't have a problem with that, in fact I welcome it if I think of myself, and said it before, well kids today are hardly going to be that shocked anyway. If you had taken a 10 year old kid in 1973 to see Live and Let Die chances are they would be somewhat offended, whereas if they had never seen it and they put it on in theaters now it would generate little response, same as with License to Kill in 1989 really. Kids today are open and accept a wider scope of violence and such than from what they were maybe protected from years before
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I'd say it's OK, though I'm not a parent. I've been watching these films since I was about 7, as I bet, many of us have.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I agree. Let's face it. Kids are seeing way more violent/worse things than what Bond offers in violence and sex and all. Age is just a number, and I think anyone could watch Bond if they so wish, and no one should be stopped from wanting to see these great films. The earlier you become a Bond fan, the better. ;)
  • Posts: 1,310
    Nowadays, I think James Bond is fairly tame compared to all the other stuff out there!!! 10 years old is pretty young, but I was even younger when I saw my first Bond film: Licence to Kill. And that Bond film is about as violent as it gets! So, I do agree with this thesis.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    I was 6 when I first saw DN. It was love at first sight. Trust me, I managed to handle the Bond series quite well growing up. :)
  • Posts: 12,526
    We talk about the content of the Bond films in terms of violence....etc. But look at what kids also can play on all the consoles that are available? Resident Evil, Call of Duty! They probably make a kid more violent thinking than a Bond film. Particularly when they can play with friends online!
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