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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 249</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>DAF could have kept the exact same script had Roger Moore starred in it as Bond.</b></font>

    It could have? Not sure how RM would have played it though? In terms of the humour? As DAF is probably the most amusing of the Connery movies! Disagree.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,173
    Well the film would be better off with a better script anyway. But as Roger Moore's first outing was in fact steered away from anything Conneryesque, I guess DAF wouldn't have worked as it is with Moore in it. Indeed the line 'that's a nice little nothing you're almost wearing'wouldn't really have worked when uttered by Moore, I think. He's a bit too much of a gentleman to say something like that.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited September 2013 Posts: 3,494
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 249</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>DAF could have kept the exact same script had Roger Moore starred in it as Bond.</b></font>

    Also disagree with thesis as far as exact same script. Rog would have nixed certain things as has been pointed out.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    No I don't think so. Connery's final adventure was just the actor having some fun, and nothing was really to be taken seriously. Even the plot itself was absurd. Moore started out, with less humor than what would become increasingly evident as the actor made more Bond films. Live and Let Die is one such example. Therefore I think DAF would of been better suited for Connery - just turning up for the money and not really giving a thump for the final end product. Disagree with this latest thesis
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,087
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 250</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The 80s Bonds suffered from the budget cuts after MR.</b></font>
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    In what way do you mean?
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,401
    Disagree. Certainly, at least, as the decade went on. At least this is from the perspective of the quality of the action sequences and set pieces. The tanker chase in LTK has some of the biggest and best explosions I've ever seen in a film and IMO is the best action sequence in the series. Similar praise for the action in TLD.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Well Moonraker cost as much to produce as all the James Bond movies put together before 1979, although Moonraker was a big success and made a lot of money. I don't think subsequent releases suffered as a direct result of it. FYEO was a very decent release, OP was never boring, AVTAK (in truth, was an awful release), but then you got TLD and LTK with Dalton that were fine releases even though the latter struggled to make an impact at the box office

    Disagree with this latest thesis
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    Well, if you look at the film's budgets and watch the behind the scenes featurettes, this is indeed true of the 80s Bond films from a factual standpoint.

    What I believe @DarthDimi is saying is if the films showed their lowered budgets in the 1980s. At first reaction, I would say this thesis might hold weight. Then again, it might just be John Glen's pedestrian way of directing, and flat and boring cinematography (AVTAK and LTK are the worst offenders).

    Also, even though I mostly enjoy LTK, I must admit that it feels like a cheaper production. The film did have some well known budgetary issues and I think it sometimes showed. (Once again, this may be partially thanks to John Glen and Alec Mills.)
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited September 2013 Posts: 7,314
    I disagree. They look great for the most part. Whatever their flaws may be it has nothing to do with a lack of money on the screen.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    well Moonraker cost about 30 million in 1979 and then FYEO, OP and AVTAK all cost about the same amount so with inflation they were indeed cheaper to make but I don't think any of these films actually suffer from looking cheap.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,087
    I personally think the AVTAK PTS could have benefited from more expensive film making. They pull some tricks there that really look terrible.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    well I suppose the back projection on the ski mobile sequence is pretty horrendous!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,087
    I wasn't expecting certain 'imperfections' in a mid-80s film of such a high profile yet the AVTAK PTS delivers them.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    All the movies after MR look splendid and do seem to put the money upon the screen and they actually manage to make the foreign lands visited look beautifull and use the scenery. Which imho is more of a problem with the current Bond movies.


    So disagree.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited September 2013 Posts: 2,401
    I have a thesis I'd really like to be used in the near future:

    Had Ian Fleming lived on, he would've written a novel as dark as - if not darker than - Licence to Kill.

    I certainly feel he was headed in that direction. TMWTGG is not a very pretty or glamorous book. It's the finale in the tale of a broken agent.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited September 2013 Posts: 4,491
    re: THESIS 248 Mendes would be wise to turn Bond 24 into something other than SF² if he wants to repeat SF's success.

    Wise should not be quistion, it is must.

    re: THESIS 250The 80s Bonds suffered from the budget cuts after MR.

    Disagree. Storywise and scene's with the Moon i am not a big fan from ,but every movie from TSWLM til Octopussy have some bit of same style. Whyle i think FYEO and Octopussy are the 2 winners for me, TSWLM and Moonraker are sources where that style begin with.

    QOS try to bring this feel a litle bit back.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,173
    250. negative. TBH whenever they put too much money into the Bond films things go utterly wrong (MR,DAD). The fils stay more down to earth that way.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    SJK91 wrote:
    Well, if you look at the film's budgets and watch the behind the scenes featurettes, this is indeed true of the 80s Bond films from a factual standpoint.

    What I believe @DarthDimi is saying is if the films showed their lowered budgets in the 1980s. At first reaction, I would say this thesis might hold weight. Then again, it might just be John Glen's pedestrian way of directing, and flat and boring cinematography (AVTAK and LTK are the worst offenders).

    Also, even though I mostly enjoy LTK, I must admit that it feels like a cheaper production. The film did have some well known budgetary issues and I think it sometimes showed. (Once again, this may be partially thanks to John Glen and Alec Mills.)

    Agree, with the points @SJK91 raised. I think it was the lack of budget, Glen's staid directing and the cinematography.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 250</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The 80s Bonds suffered from the budget cuts after MR.</b></font>

    Disagree. As the next one FYEO was probably Moore's finest performance in the role. So size of the budget really does not matter. It also highlights how important the story is in any film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,087
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 251</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>"[John Glen's] chorus line is the legendary team of Bond stunt-persons who are at their death-defying best here". (Jack Kroll, writing in Newsweek about Licence to Kill)</b></font>
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Agree. The Glen films had by far the best stuntwork of the series imo. Mountain climbing, cargo net fight, plane fishing, tanker chase, etc. Brilliant stuff.
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Agree. The Glen films had by far the best stuntwork of the series imo. Mountain climbing, cargo net fight, plane fishing, tanker chase, etc. Brilliant stuff.

    Agree with all the above. You could also include the ski jump from TSWLM, which Glen over saw.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    edited September 2013 Posts: 2,401
    Absolutely. Call him a pedestrian director if you want, but Glen was the king of shooting stunts and action. Nobody does it better indeed.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 251</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>"[John Glen's] chorus line is the legendary team of Bond stunt-persons who are at their death-defying best here". (Jack Kroll, writing in Newsweek about Licence to Kill)</b></font>

    Agree completely! thelivingroyale puts it perfectly!
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    That is a truthfull statement
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    I'll agree with this statement. There were some great stunts in the Glen films, and he most certainly placed action highly - if sometimes a bit too high. Regardless, I still think the Bond films of the 80s had some of the best action set pieces.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Bigger budgets, bigger actions, although Gilbert deserves a mention for the ski-jump and free fall sequence in TSWLM and Moonraker respectively. Going to agree with thesis
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    StirredNotShaken wrote:
    Absolutely. Call him a pedestrian director if you want, but Glen was the king of shooting stunts and action. Nobody does it better indeed.

    What he said.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,185
    Agreed. John Glen was a great director with an equally great team behind him. A good action director is what is need as the James Bond films are action films at heart, are they not?
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