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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    1)DAF says yes. 2) I'm not so sure. For now I think I've got to agree there too. I can't think of a film that I don't really like but for the music.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 262</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>SF's story goes where a fifth Brosnan film could have gone.</b></font>
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited November 2013 Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 262</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>SF's story goes where a fifth Brosnan film could have gone.</b></font>

    I really do not know, this is a thesis that is more about wishfull thinking than anything that would ever have happened. imho.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited November 2013 Posts: 13,355
    A fifth Brosnan film could have gone in many others areas but then, so could the ones he did if EON wanted.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    It could have, sure, but the thesis is very broad. It does have more of an old-school feel with a more modern edge, and thus would fit Brosnan well. I don't think Brosnan's Bond and M had the same relationship that Craig's Bond and M, though, so the story would be at least a little different in that respect.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I would have to disagree because Moneypenny wouldn't have been in the field in the beginning of the film to shoot Bond. I suppose it could be changed to another character. I'm not so sure that they would have had Brosnan's Bond facing off against a former agent again either. Finally, I really don't think that they would have killed off the Bond girl so soon and definitely not let M die at the end. It would have been a nice change of pace for the Brosnan era but I just don't see it happening.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    Eve being Moneypenny would have to be written out but other wise I think SF would've been a perfect end to the Brosnan era.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Disagree
    Skyfall is very much a Craig-film and i think that Brosnan would have been a bit to awkward in it. Albeit some part's would have worked (like the Casino-scene)
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Totally against latest thesis. As with the above, Skyfall was tailor made for Craig. Just couldn't envisage Brosnan involved in much of a capacity. M works better with Craig than Brosnan for one thing but the more you read into it, the more uncertain things seem to become. Going to stick with initial thoughts though and disagree
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Disagree. The relationship between Bond and M is crucial to the film's core. I don't see the same emotional attachment with Bond and M in the Brosnan era.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    edited November 2013 Posts: 523
    Agree with @thelivingroyale. However, I enjoyed Craig in it much (his best perf until now IMO)
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Disagree. The relationship between Bond and M is crucial to the film's core. I don't see the same emotional attachment with Bond and M in the Brosnan era.

    There is one even if you are in denial about what happens in TWINE.

    However This thesis would always split into the Brosnan & Craig camps.

    I would have hoped that a 5th Brosnan outing would have been more grounded, had he done SF the fans would still be terrible angry about the illogical choice of a head of MI6 going off all alone with an unarmed 007. :D
    With DC it works.

    Mr Spock would comment on it. ;)
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    SaintMark wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Disagree. The relationship between Bond and M is crucial to the film's core. I don't see the same emotional attachment with Bond and M in the Brosnan era.

    There is one even if you are in denial about what happens in TWINE.

    However This thesis would always split into the Brosnan & Craig camps.

    I would have hoped that a 5th Brosnan outing would have been more grounded, had he done SF the fans would still be terrible angry about the illogical choice of a head of MI6 going off all alone with an unarmed 007. :D
    With DC it works.

    Mr Spock would comment on it. ;)

    And what am I supposed to be in denial about? Bond doesn't have the same relationship with M in TWINE that he has with her in CR/QoS/SF. She's deliberately more matriarchal to Bond in these films.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    WillyGalore wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Definitely agree. Dalton seems like the kind of actor who takes work based on what he's interested in rather than how much moneys on offer (he initially turned down Bond, remember?).

    Plus he was mates with Cubby (he was a pall bearer at his funeral), he definitely wouldn't have gone against him like that.
    WillyGalore wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    The thing is, I always thought Dalton was rather close to Cubby. I'd think of this as a betrayal of sorts. But then I could be mistaken of course. ;-)

    I always thought that of Cubby and Roger but things there were not all they seemed.

    What do you mean? I always got the impression that Roger and Cubby were quite close?

    Read Roger's autobiography. He mentions some hurtful and, according to him, untrue comments made by Cubby about the way Roger went about negotiating his contract.

    I believe the important thing missing from this is that Cubbys autobiography was finished by someone else Donald Zec as mentioned by Rog in his book.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 263</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The literary Bond (by Fleming) is more vulnerable and fragile than the cinematic Bond.</b></font>
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    AGREE.
    With the exception of Lazenby and maybe Craig.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 258</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Never Say Never Again "may be the only instalment of the long-running series that has been helmed by a first-rate director". [Jay Scott for The Globe and Mail - 1983]</b></font>

    Disagree whole heartedly
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 259</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Now that the TB rights are recovered from McClory, Craig should go against Blofeld in one of the next Bond films. </b></font>

    No No No! Disagree! Craig's Bond needs to deal with Quantum! Not Spectre!
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 260</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Dalton would never have accepted the lead part in a competing McClory Bond film post '89.</b></font>

    Agree. He strikes me as having to much respect for the part and Fleming.
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 261</b></font>


    <font color=blue size=7><b>PART 1) John Barry's scores were able to make lesser Bonds more enjoyable. PART 2) The other Bond composers weren't.</b></font>

    Part 1 agree

    Part 2 Disagree

  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 262</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>SF's story goes where a fifth Brosnan film could have gone.</b></font>

    Agree. This would have been more credible than Brosnan doing CR!
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 263</b></font>


    <font color=blue size=7><b>The literary Bond (by Fleming) is more vulnerable and fragile than the cinematic Bond.</b></font>

    Having not read one i am not sure? But from what i know and have heard? He is a far more tortured soul in the books?
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 263</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The literary Bond (by Fleming) is more vulnerable and fragile than the cinematic Bond.</b></font>

    Agree. Although there's been the odd exception, he's much more cold blooded in the films than he ever was in the books.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 263</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The literary Bond (by Fleming) is more vulnerable and fragile than the cinematic Bond.</b></font>


    Totally agree!
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    With the odd exception (OHMSS, CR) I agree with this.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    WillyGalore wrote:
    With the odd exception (OHMSS, CR) I agree with this.

    But he is more vulnerable in the CR (novel) and in OHMSS (novel) then in the cinematic counterpart!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    True, so agree without reservations.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 264</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>By putting the Bond franchise on hold after LTK, the studios avoided 007 fatigue among audiences.</b></font>
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Thesis 264:
    Agree
    How much i would have loved to see Dalton in one or two more films, i think that the hiatus were a good thing for the franchise. It builded up a well needed anticipation for an upcoming film which later on saved the franchise.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 264</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>By putting the Bond franchise on hold after LTK, the studios avoided 007 fatigue among audiences.</b></font>

    Partially agree. While a gap was probably needed, I don't think it necessarily needed to be at that exact time. I would've liked to see one or two more films before any kind of hiatus.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 264</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>By putting the Bond franchise on hold after LTK, the studios avoided 007 fatigue among audiences.</b></font>

    Disagree. While the six-year gap was indeed great for GoldenEye's reception among critics, fans, and the general public, it could just have easily been the end of the franchise, as was suspected at the time. It was a profoundly risky move, albeit one that paid off.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Personally disagree. I didn't need a break in the action! Six years was too long. I don't think that the general public needed six years either. Skyfall proved that four years is enough.
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