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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • ThighsOfXeniaThighsOfXenia
    Posts: 1,596
    I agree, and I didn't even think about that before. Now that you've brought it up I think that's why I find TWINE's climax to be such a bore.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited January 2014 Posts: 16,351
    Disagree. While the climax wasn't very memorable, Had Renard been actually tougher and more Sadistic and Jaws like, his death would have been have been better. But I like his death not because it was unique but Brosnan's sadistic grin and quip. She's waiting for you! BANG! It's pretty much the same climax as Thunderball's but with a submarine and no army of frogmen.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 277</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Elektra's death overshadows Renard's, making the latter a dramatic anticlimax.</b></font>

    Would have to agree without doubt! A cold bloodied kill which I thought was brilliantly well done! Really liked Renard and thought he deserved a better finale to the one he got?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 278</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>When a villain is physically weaker, he's usually intellectually more menacing.</b></font>
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    I think that probably goes without saying.
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    Definitely agree.

    You don't have to look further than Le Chiffre.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    And Kronsteen.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 278</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>When a villain is physically weaker, he's usually intellectually more menacing.</b></font>

    Agree. The combination of both is far more desirable if possible? The last one I think was 006 Alec Trevelyan!! But if that is the case? All the more reason to have far more menacing henchman!
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Yes, if you look at adversaries such as Hugo Drax, Dr No, Kamal Khan, even Kronsteen as a lesser example. You look at more physically proficient names like Kriegler, Richard Stamper and Gabor for instance, they simply didn't have the cerebral capacity that matched their physical attributes. Thesis is correct
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 279</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bad entries sooner or later help the series in the long run as they usually lead to some of the better Bond films.</b></font>
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    Having watched (most of) DAD last night, I easily agree with this.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Having watched (most of) DAD last night, I easily agree with this.

    On iTV2?

    Yes - YOLT was followed by OHMSS, MR by FYEO, DAD by CR - so agree
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    royale65 wrote:
    WillyGalore wrote:
    Having watched (most of) DAD last night, I easily agree with this.

    On iTV2?

    Yes, though I switched over at 22:50 for Air Force One.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,584
    I'll agree, as OHMSS/FYEO/CR are all top notch, and definitely an improvement on the films directly preceding them. However, 'bad' is too strong a word- I don't consider YOLT and MR bad entries, just not as good. ;)
  • Pajan005Pajan005 Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 432
    I think they are all good in their own way.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 279</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bad entries sooner or later help the series in the long run as they usually lead to some of the better Bond films.</b></font>

    Of course. The Man With the Golden Gun lead to The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker lead to For Your Eyes Only, A View to a Kill lead to The Living Daylights, Die Another Day lead to Casino Royale, and Quantum of Solace lead to Skyfall.

    Note that TMWTGG-TSWLM-MR-FYEO and DAD-CR-QOS-SF are all consecutive movies, so the series was rather bipolar during those periods.
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Agreed, when a bad'n happens a great film always follows
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 279</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bad entries sooner or later help the series in the long run as they usually lead to some of the better Bond films.</b></font>

    Agree with this thesis. But then again if they were all brilliant? You would still have your own personal favourites regardless!
    :D
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    If all the films were brilliant I can't help but feel the series would have ended sometime ago.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I absolutely agree with the thesis. This series has endured for so long because of it's ability to bounce back after a disappointing effort. They got into some real trouble with this during the Brosnan era (TND, TWINE and DAD would be my pick for the three worst consecutive Bond films) but were eventually able to right the ship again.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited January 2014 Posts: 12,837
    I think the three worst consecutive Bond films are DAF, LALD, TMWTGG*. I would agree with you @pachazo if it wasn't for TWINE. I really enjoy it.

    *Luckily they really got back on track with TSWLM.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I think the three worst consecutive Bond films are DAF, LALD, TMWTGG*. I would agree with you @pachazo if it wasn't for TWINE. I really enjoy it.

    *Luckily they really got back on track with TSWLM.
    I agree with you that those three films are certainly a strong contender. I'm sure that many people would agree with you. Much like your appreciation for TWINE I really enjoy LALD so I'd personally have to disagree. Great point though.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2014 Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 280</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>In the Craig era it might work to leave Bond's future uncertain at the end of a film, much like in Fleming's FRWL and YOLT.</b></font>
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited January 2014 Posts: 13,355
    If they were ever going to try this, now would be the time as EON now have the guts to try new and different things, so it may happen at some stage and could be a good lead in to the follow-up.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It would work only if the sequel was another Craig film. So like if it ended on a cliffhanger and the followup was with a new Bond actor It probably wouldn't work.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Thesis #279 - Yes, agree with that

    Thesis #280 - Agree with the last response, in that it would really help if Craig was still in the part of Bond. Not only that, adds a bit of intrigue and mystery, so that's another thesis in agreement
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Didnt they plan for that with QOS? It would be nice to see at some pont, but maybe they should leave out the usual suffix "James Bond will return."
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Agree with the thesis in that it "might" work depending upon the circumstances. We've already had him play dead in Skyfall so it needs to be something different please. I'd be open to it though.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 280</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>In the Craig era it might work to leave Bond's future uncertain at the end of a film, much like in Fleming's FRWL and YOLT.</b></font>

    Well as far as we know? DC is only doing 2 more so it needs to be the next one! As Murdock said above? It needs to be the same actor playing Bond and not a new person 4 years down the line. So I agree.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    This though would mean another 2-parter as with CR and QOS,and i dont really want that.
    I think the films can be linked,eg Quantum or Blofeld is/was,but i dont want cliffhangers.

    These films will be shown separately as time goes on,even QOS must be confusing from the start for people who havent seen CR,forgotten how it ended or are watching Bond on tv for the first time,but it just gets away with it.

    A 'cliffhanger' film wont get away with it,and we all know Bond would survive or return to MI6 or whatever so what's the point of it ?

    Each Bond film needs a beginning,a middle and an end,IMO.
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