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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    White men kissing black women? That's nothing. If it were Kananga kissing and bedding Solitaire now we're talking but as mentioned GwCtD covered this.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 288</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond making out with Rosie was very progressive for the time.</b></font>

    James T Kirk beat him with Uhuru.

    That not so much issue taken with it or given more attention shows that the world had moved on.

  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Agree. Remember in Star Trek Kirk and Uhura were forced to kiss to amuse their alien captures. They weren't doing it willfully.

    Bond the other hand did more than just share a kiss with Rosie. It was implied that the two had sex. Yes GWCTD was released some time before LALD but that was a very different movie. LALD might've been the first movie were a white man and black woman get intimate without the film making a huge deal about it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I was only six at the time so the older members here can probably answer this better than me, but I tend to disagree. Ten years earlier it would probably be the case, especially for the US audience anyway.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think it was progressive but I hesitate to use the word "very."

    I am happy with the thread title change, by the way. :)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 289</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FYEO has the most down-to-earth plot of any of the Bond films.</b></font>
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 289</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FYEO has the most down-to-earth plot of any of the Bond films.</b></font>

    Agree: Although you could also include LTK in that respect as that involves drug smuggling?!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Hard to say. I would put FRWL, LTK, and TLD too in that category.
    I'll just say I agree for now.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited March 2014 Posts: 1,778
    Agree

    It might be tied with LTK although some elements of Sanchez's organization and the way they transfer the drugs into oil are a tad far-fetched. But I consider both films about even.

    The one thing that stops FRWL beating FYEO in that regard is the involvement of Spectre which, lets face it, is far from down-to-earth. If they decided to stick to novel and use SMERSH than yes I'd probably say FRWL.
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 289</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>FYEO has the most down-to-earth plot of any of the Bond films.</b></font>

    If we're talking ONLY the main plot of the villain, then yes, it is tied with LTK and CR. If we are talking about the film as a whole, Licence to Kill wins by a country mile.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Hmm.. Yes, I think that I can agree with this. DN has to be in the conversation as well though.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited March 2014 Posts: 2,629
    Of the Roger Moore Era, FYEO is easily the most down to earth.

    I would say FRWL, LTK, CR and SF are moreso overall.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    FRWL equals it i think,in simply being a good Bond spy film,but certainly LTK,CR and SF are in the mix.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Agree, and one of many reasons why I love this film. There is a case to be made for including FRWL and CR, though.
  • delticminerdelticminer
    Posts: 115
    Completely disagree. From Russia with Love, Licence to Kill and Casino Royale are definitely more down to earth, and even films such as OHMSS, The Living Daylights and Skyfall are probably more down to earth.

    What can't be contested is that FYEO is the most down-to-earth of the Roger Moore films.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    @delticminer, I disagree about OHMSS. We have an army of hypnotized women used to spread a virus via long-distance calls by Blofeld who, incidentally, cares most about being recognized as a count than anything else and has been able to set up shop in Switzerland presumably - at best - two years since his hollowed out volcano was demolished in Japan.

    Ok, I will agree that the FYEO PTS is equally far-fetched. ;-)
  • delticminerdelticminer
    Posts: 115
    @DarthDimi It's certainly more down to Earth than Blofeld's other main appearances, and to be honest, using a virus to destroy crops to get his title of count? It's more feasible than a very great deal of other Bond plots (Most of the Connerys bar FRWL, all of the Moores except for maybe FYEO, all of the Brosnans and maybe even Quantum of Solace and Skyfall.) I don't know, it's certainly the least down to earth of the so called 'down to earth' films.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited March 2014 Posts: 4,423
    Hmm, disagree.

    I put FRWL, LALD, TLD and LTK in the same boat. Also CR, QoS, GF, OP and TWINE are less fantastical. And DAD, of course.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    FYEO is not only the last true movie to Fleming it is the most to earth story of them all, showing that less is good and that chasing a macguffin offers enough excitement.

    So agree
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 24,172
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 290</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond is hypocritical for giving Melina a lecture on seeking revenge.</b></font>
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 24,172
    In FYEO, Bond ruthlessly kills Loque for the death of Ferrara, an ally he can't have met with on more than two or three occasions. Yet at the same time, he won't allow Melina the same indulgence, and at least she sets out to avenge her beloved parents!

    Is he trying to keep her from getting blood on her hands? Well if so, that's too late now since she already killed Gonzales and in doing so actually provided Bond with a way out.

    Maybe he simply wants to keep her from facing tough enemies. Wrong again, as in the Bond universe, 007 would recognise a powerful ally and keep her close. Plus, he takes her with him all the way once we've gotten back to Greece anyway.

    So perhaps it really does read the way it's said in the film: Bond tells Melina she can't exact revenge because there are moral objections. In that case, I'm sorry James but you're quite the hypocrite here.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    One could say that Bond was being a bit of a hypocrite, but Bond knows the price for taking revenge, and so dissuades Melina from taking a dark path.

    Disagree.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I think @royale65 raises a great point- his admonition to Melina could be taken as simply a generic warning of the consequences that follow the act of revenge; in that case, Bond isn't necessarily condemning her hypocritically, but rather trying to save her from succumbing to an evil temptation. Nevertheless, Bond has quite the record on people he's eliminated out of vengeance, so I think I'd have to agree with the thesis.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 290</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond is hypocritical for giving Melina a lecture on seeking revenge.</b></font>

    Agree: However in his defence I would say that she is not a Spy and no doubt their would quite possibly be life taking involved. Melina is a civilian and would no doubt fall apart. Bond is a tortured soul so would know what he is talking about in regards to this.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I agree. But I think Bond only gave her that lecture because she's a young woman who has a bright future ahead of her.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2014 Posts: 18,269
    RogueAgent wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 290</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Bond is hypocritical for giving Melina a lecture on seeking revenge.</b></font>

    Agree: However in his defence I would say that she is not a Spy and no doubt their would quite possibly be life taking involved. Melina is a civilian and would no doubt fall apart. Bond is a tortured soul so would know what he is talking about in regards to this.

    I tend to Disagree with this thesis on the same lines as that above. Thank you, @RogueAgent.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Bond being a killer by profession is the best person to give advise on why NOT to kill peaple as it is a skill that does something to your humanity.
    So him advising Melina not to walk that road is actually quite White Knight for him, and he is an expert on the subject.

    SO NOT BEING A HYPOCRITE, I would say.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Disagree.He did not deny her anything, only gave some words of wisdom.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Disagree. It has long been my observation that many people are most often offended by others displaying the sins that they themselves hold. He's not being a hypocrite, he's merely being human. Bond has sought revenge in the past, and he knows the effect that these acts have had on him. But he is a professional in a field that sometimes requires killing and she is not, so in cautioning Melina against seeking revenge, Bond is only trying to prevent her from following a path that he knows from personal experience will be harmful to her on a profound emotional level.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited March 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think I agree with this thesis. The Bond of FYEO and the Bond of LTK don't really feel like the same person.

    Isn't there a degree of practicing what you preach here?

    That said I do see Beatlessansearmuffs point. Even the Bond of FYEO was somewhat hypocritical when he kicked that car off the cliff. That was an act of revenge but it was done undercover of his job rather than a "personal vendetta".
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