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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 022</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>There was no reason to block the Bond films for six years after LTK.</b></font>
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    I wasn't alive, was there a reason? :P
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 022</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>There was no reason to block the Bond films for six years after LTK.</b></font>

    I'm a Dalton fan and would've like for there not to have been a reason but wasn't it a financial/legal reason involving EON and MGM?

  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    Naturally I would have like more Bond films between 1990-1994, but I think the reasons for the delay were out of the filmmakers hands, was it not? So I guess there was no reason for us fans, but plenty of reason for the filmmakers!!!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    SJK91 wrote:
    Naturally I would have like more Bond films between 1990-1994, but I think the reasons for the delay were out of the filmmakers hands, was it not? So I guess there was no reason for us fans, but plenty of reason for the filmmakers!!!


    I've got to agree. As much as I would have liked Dalton to have continued in 1991, 1993 1995 etc... There wasn't anything that could've been done to prevent the gap.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Of course there wasn't any reason to purposefully do it but it had to be done due to the situation EON and co. found themselves in.
  • StevenSteven
    Posts: 105
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Of course there wasn't any reason to purposefully do it but it had to be done due to the situation EON and co. found themselves in.

    My thoughts exactly.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It was an uncontrollable event. EON did there best and stuck through it. Case closed for me.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    There really wasn't a whole lot more that could have done given the circumstances.
  • karatemanchan37karatemanchan37
    Posts: 584
    Agreed with all opinions above me ^
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    i agree, unavoidable! A bit like the situation now between 2008 and the present! We all know that in life these things happen and thats the way it is!

    Shame we missed out on another Bond film in 2010!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,380
    Agreed with the above. This period was much like the recent Craig hiatus. MGM was in a state of turmoil in the early '90s.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    No, as others mentioned above. I don't think there really is a debate there.

    Was the gap good for the series? I'd say yes, given the timing and success of Goldeneye
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 023</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Photography and editing for OHMSS were years ahead of the time.</b></font>
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Absolutly. Yet those overrated Bourne films get the credit. I metioned OHMSS and it's editing in a film class and no one ever saw it.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    The photography, maybe. But the editing is atrocious, moreso if you look at the editing in the series up to that point. The editing in FRWL (the train fight) was ahead of it's time.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Of it's day for Bond's world in the 60's but ahead of everything else, yes. Back then Bond was still setting trends,
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    The photography especially was excellent in this film .The editing leave a bit to be desired but we are talking 1969 here and i can see what they were trying to do with it.It doesnt t take anything away from the film for sure IMO.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    OHMSS's (and FRWL's) cinematography and editing were so ahead of their time, that 40 years later, TWINE, DAD, CR and QOS still haven't reached the modernity of film making the franchise set in the 60's... First time I saw OHMSS, I thought the film costed billions, I couldn't believe how lush and beautiful the film was.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    edited January 2012 Posts: 1,497
    Yes of course. Just watch the entire bobsled sequence as a prime example. This is a primer on HOW to do an action sequence, versus the atrocities of Richard Pearson.

    It should also be brought up that editing should not be confused with dubbing. While both are post-production processes, they are two seperate things. OHMSS obviously has some dubbing issues, most notably with Diana Rigg's line in the car. The editing though is a true benchmark of film-making. They did some nice photography as well. I wouldn't say best of the series though. The locations were excellent.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    I would agree with this thesis. The ski chase in how its filmed ....etc. With Willie Bognor are fantastic! A great film well made, just a shame that GL agent gave out crap advice!
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    The photography, maybe. But the editing is atrocious, moreso if you look at the editing in the series up to that point. The editing in FRWL (the train fight) was ahead of it's time.
    Sign me up for this! OHMSS features beautiful photography, but some of the editing is just plain bad. I understand there were some jump cuts in the earlier Bond films but OHMSS almost made an editing style out of odd jump cuts...didn't do it for me.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    SJK91 wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    The photography, maybe. But the editing is atrocious, moreso if you look at the editing in the series up to that point. The editing in FRWL (the train fight) was ahead of it's time.
    Sign me up for this! OHMSS features beautiful photography, but some of the editing is just plain bad. I understand there were some jump cuts in the earlier Bond films but OHMSS almost made an editing style out of odd jump cuts...didn't do it for me.

    What were some scenes where you found the editing sub-par?

  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    The photography is the best on any Bond film. QoS came the closest to matching it but it didn't. The editing is very jumpy and sometimes not the best but it adds a certain charm to the already outstanding film.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    Interesting to note, this is the first Bond film edited by John Glen. ALL of the films since Dr. No had been edited by Peter Hunt.
  • SJK91SJK91
    edited January 2012 Posts: 1,310
    JBFan626 wrote:
    SJK91 wrote:
    MajorDSmythe wrote:
    The photography, maybe. But the editing is atrocious, moreso if you look at the editing in the series up to that point. The editing in FRWL (the train fight) was ahead of it's time.
    Sign me up for this! OHMSS features beautiful photography, but some of the editing is just plain bad. I understand there were some jump cuts in the earlier Bond films but OHMSS almost made an editing style out of odd jump cuts...didn't do it for me.

    What were some scenes where you found the editing sub-par?
    Well the fist fights all seem a little odd to me. (Barring the fight between Bond and Draco's thugs right outside Draco's office, I quite like the zooms) The jump cuts just look wrong.

    Some examples for me:

    - On the beach during the pre-titles sequence, Bond knocks a thug with a knife on his back and the very next shot the thug is on his stomach with the knife being kicked out of his hand.

    - Bond is taking out his gun while fighting the thug in Tracy's hotel room. The thug is clearly on his back when Bond withdraws his weapon, but in the very next shot the thug is standing up hitting the gun out of Bond's hand with a chair.

    - I never cared for the technique used when Irma Bunt surprises Bond and Gunther knocks Bond out. Something about that scene is...odd....not in a good way for me.

    - The fight before Blofeld sticks Bond in the cable car room is full of odd jump cuts, most noticeably when Bond karate chops the one thug and tosses Gunther over his shoulder.

    - The scene when Bond fights the thug receptionist at the elevator carries an extremely ugly looking jump cut after the thug kicks Bond away and magically appears on his feet!

    - There is an odd dissolve just as Blofeld (and his accompanying thugs) come out to chase Bond on skis.

    - During the assault on Piz Gloria, one of the helicopters seems to 'dissolve' into the frame. Watch that scene closely, you'll find it.

    - I suppose this has to do with the editing, but when Draco counts down the explosion at Piz Gloria and THE TIMER REACHES ZERO, the explosion doesn't happen for another 10 seconds. It's just kind of awkward. They could have cut it so Draco's 'Now!' could have coincided with the actual explosion.

    Now, let's get one thing straight: I think OHMSS is one of the best Bond films there is. And some of these editing criticisms are a tad picky (particularly the last one), but these are the ones that came across the top of my head.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    =D> Thanks for the elaboration. You have a technical eye for these things that I clearly haven't got. My question though is, what's wrong with those jump cuts, particularly in the fight scenes? I feel like that speeds up the action a bit, and there for adds to the intesity of the scene. I believe Hunt used a similar technique in the opening fight of Thunderball.
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    JBFan626 wrote:
    =D> Thanks for the elaboration. You have a technical eye for these things that I clearly haven't got. My question though is, what's wrong with those jump cuts, particularly in the fight scenes? I feel like that speeds up the action a bit, and there for adds to the intesity of the scene. I believe Hunt used a similar technique in the opening fight of Thunderball.
    You're most definitely right and the pre-titles fight in Thunderball does have some...but for some reason it has never bothered me as much. And trust me, sometimes I wish I didn't pick out as many things as I do!!!! ;)
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Not a slight to OHMSS, but to be honest I thought the photography and editing in Thunderball was much better and was the film that was really ahead of its time.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,380
    Hmm...interesting question. OHMSS is by far my favorite Bond film but there are edits that I don't like, notably where Draco's "Now!" is. But I like the jump cuts--it is very 1969--and since Hunt came up through the series as an editor, I'd venture to say that he exercised extensive control over the editing.

    I do think the cinematography is above average, even among the high standards of the Bond films. You feel like you're actually in the ski chase--Bogner gets a lot of credit for that--and it does not feel dated, other than Lazenby's hat.
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