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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 294</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>M, Q and MP are preferably left out of active field work.</b></font>

    YES PLEASE.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Ralph Fiennes on occasion can go out in the field, but not during the next two films or so. Let him get settled in his office.

    Q is pretty much tech support and is not Major Boothroyd. No need for him to go out in the field.

    Given Moneypenny's backstory being presented in SF, it's unlikely she'll go out in the field.

    I agree with the thesis for the foreseeable future.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    I enjoyed seeing Q out in the field and aiding Bond in LTK but part of that is because it was so unusual.However i wouldnt like to see it happen again.M should definetly stay out of the field, i thought Judi Dench got WAY too much screen time in the Bond movies.Same goes for Moneypenny since she obviously cant shoot or drive.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    I agree with thesis 294. We already have someone to do active field work: Agent 007. If he needs help, call an ally, Felix or even Sheriff Pepper. But leave the MI6 regulars for office work. Besides, how could the 007 missions always capture the whole attention of an entire government agency? M and his staff probably have to spend half of their time signing sick-leave permits, asking for office supplies and balancing the budget.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Agree with a slight edge towards - a little field work is ok for all 3 of them.
    Q most definitely needs to stay mostly at home, in his workshop/lab/HQ. If they want some humor, then introduce Q into meeting Bond in the field (Q hates flying, maybe he'll take a bus ...) Moneypenny, again slightly in the field is ok but they need to be careful how that is done (do NOT make her a bimbo; she was quite competent except for the one shot and I am sick of bimbo women in Bond films, especially if they come from MI6), and M - well, okay but don't have him kidnapped a la Judi or becoming a real sidekick to Bond.

    So in general, yes agree. But I do feel that Moneypenny and M will both be away from their desks a bit in Bond 24; just my gut feeling. Q, I don't think so (unless, like I said, for something humorous).
  • WillyGaloreWillyGalore
    Posts: 6,396
    I agree with this thesis also. However, you don't hire an actor the calibre of Ralph Fiennes to just sideline him to a couple of scenes. I do fear that we will see as much of him on screen in future films as we did Judi.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Exactly, Willy - with Ralph in the role we can safely assume, I think, he will have a wee bit more to do than previous Ms we had before Judi's. It won't be him just handling a folder and giving instructions to Bond. I'm okay with that, with a good script. It all hangs on the script, really, doesn't it?
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited March 2014 Posts: 2,629
    Let's compare the M's to when they left the British Isles.

    Bernard Lee:

    YOLT: British submarine Western Pacific Ocean
    OHMSS: Portugal (Bond's wedding)
    TMWTGG: Sunken British ship off of Hong Kong
    TSWLM: Mediterranean Sea
    MR: Venice

    Robert Brown:

    OP: West Berlin
    TLD: Airspace over Gibraltar
    LTK: Key West

    Judi Dench:

    TWINE: Istanbul and wherever Electra King's control center was. (Note that Electra requested M's presence in order to kidnap her).
    DAD: British ship off of Hong Kong
    CR: Bahamas
    QOS: Italy, Bolivia and Russia

    Counting the QOS jet hopping, Judi Dench was, at best, slightly more on scene that her predecessors.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    If I didn't name places, then I couldn't clarify when they left the country now could I?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Well, we were walking about "getting out of the office". Judi did have way more screen time, yes, and the stories included her in the plot far more. But it is interesting to me to look at it film by film and see that.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Oh there is much I do not like about the script of TWINE, believe me.
    Skyfall, I have no problem with her role in the story.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    But it is interesting about M's role over the years, isn't it?
    M has changed and I feel will get more screen time.
    Moneypenny has for sure changed! I'm happy about that, if kept within sane reason of a decent script.

  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I agree with the thesis. I didn't mind when they would occasionally pop up in the field in past adventures but it must be kept to a minimum. I am worried about what EON has up their sleeves for future installments.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited March 2014 Posts: 4,514
    RE: 294 M, Q and MP are preferably left out of active field work.

    I agree about Moneypenny, if Eve is realy Moneypenny. Q moost of time be out of the Q lab and as said before everbody can be Q. Ben's Q should not been seen to much in the next one and if you ask me no Eve at all. M be difrent story, i whant to see Bond strugle with Malory and both with the guy from QOS who be above Molory.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,169
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 295</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Zorin's genocide of his men is the most violent moment of all the Bond films.</b></font>
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 295</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Zorin's genocide of his men is the most violent moment of all the Bond films.</b></font>

    For me the most uncomfortable violent moment is when Corinne runs through the woods followed by Drax's dogs. The scene is visually beautifully filmed and yet you know you are watching the prelude to an awefull death.

    So disagree.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I'd also argue Bond getting tortured is a far more violent moment than Zorin gunning down his goons, as ghastly as it is.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Disagree. I really like this scene, as it shows how really twisted and psychopathic Zorin really is. Throughtout the rest of the film, it has been all keeping appearances for him , but at this moment, he really lets loose.

    Instead, I would say that some scenes in LTK are more violent, such as Milton Krest's demise and the murder of Della (and what was implied).
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 295</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Zorin's genocide of his men is the most violent moment of all the Bond films.</b></font>

    It certainly is pretty heartless and he was more than happy to kill May Day as well. So agree.
  • LicencedToKilt69007LicencedToKilt69007 Belgium, Wallonia
    Posts: 523
    I disagree because there are so many violent moments in 007.

    I'm looking at most of the scenes of LTK, some in GoldenEye, CR, QoS.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Milton Krest's exploding head in License to Kill seems a bit more violent than Zorin's massacre in the mine, even if it does only involve the death of one person, rather than multiple people. Other than that, it probably would take the cake for the most violent.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Disagree. Sanchez's executions of his own people are more brutal. Blowing up Krest's head, Impaling Heller. Xenia's murder of the Russian scientists is equally as Brutal as Zorin's murder of his own henchmen.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I disagree. I'll go with Della's murder, which thankfully we didn't get to see.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Disagree as well. The Bond films are loaded with violent moments. All of them.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I disagree too. I think Felix's feeding to the shark (in the uncut version there's a shot of his severed leg), Krest's death, Sanchez's death and Craig's torture in CR are all more violent and unsettling to watch.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Also we are forgetting the opening PTS of LTK where Sanchez has Dario remove the heart of Lupe's lover (insinuated but you can hear the screams).
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I will also have to disagree with this one. Many people have already pointed out some great examples. It's obvious that the films have become more violent since 1985.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Surely Hugo Drax's plan to obliterate the earth's population with fatal nerve gas and start a new breed in space would rank higher than Zorin's endeavors..

    Does than not constitute a violent moment ?

    Thesis incorrect
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,466
    LTK in general is the most violent Bond film; very dark film with several violent moments - Della's murder, heart carving (both luckily off-screen), Krest's head exploding, Dario getting chewed up by the machine, etc. I would pick any of these moments over Zorin's genocide. And I also agree with Murdock on the Xenia murders on all the Russian scientists in GE.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited March 2014 Posts: 18,267
    I disagree with the thesis and may I add that I think the killing of Mr Slate by Bond in QoS is more graphically violent than the extended Zorin mine massacre scene. I started a few threads on the Zorin mine massacre here and at other Bond fora if anyone is interested in looking them up.
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