The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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Comments

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 2014 Posts: 18,281
    Agree.

    As was pointed out to me by my dear and learned friend Major Tallon (from CBn) the two subs were still too close to the Liparus for the nuclear explosions not to have killed Bond, Carter and the crews. Still, it's a film and as a Bond film there are often absurdities in the plot when you sit down to think it through even a little bit.

    As an aside I suppose that Bond did a similar thing at the climax of the novel Moonraker although that involved only one submarine but much more realistically sadly killed hundreds of people in the process. Such a thing would never happen in a Bond film. But there is at least some Fleming authority for what Bond and Carter did in the film of TSWLM.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Disagree it finished the story of the two subs neathly. For plausability sake 007 would be long dead anyhow so screw the plausability aspect.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Disagree - I am pretty much in agreement with Willy's take on this one.

    +++++++

    300 debates - that's great, DarthDimi! =D>
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited May 2014 Posts: 7,314
    I disagree. It's never bothered me before even if it always has seemed rather convenient.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    What was the alternative?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    What was the alternative?

    Well yes, that is very true of course.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    What was the alternative?

    Actually, @Thunderfinger, if Bond can reprogram the subs' commands, he can simply order them not to launch. I agree that wouldn't have been very exciting but on the other hand we've time and again seen Bond stop a bomb from going off with only one or a few seconds left. Setting off two nuclear explosions of this magnitude will surely wipe out a lot of sea life and contaminate the oceans for centuries. ;-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited May 2014 Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote:
    What was the alternative?

    Actually, @Thunderfinger, if Bond can reprogram the subs' commands, he can simply order them not to launch. I agree that wouldn't have been very exciting but on the other hand we've time and again seen Bond stop a bomb from going off with only one or a few seconds left. Setting off two nuclear explosions of this magnitude will surely wipe out a lot of sea life and contaminate the oceans for centuries. ;-)

    Good point. The screenwriters could have gone that route, but in the film Bond has to flip through a user manual that is handily there (Gee!), and did not have much time.

    Now that you mention it, fish did taste better before 77.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited May 2014 Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 302</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Renard's "invulnerability" is a redundant character trait in the final script of TWINE.</b></font>
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    redundant ... ? I need a little time to think on this (maybe just dense this morning)
  • Posts: 6,396
    Totally agree. It's utterly pointless.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    If you mean pointless, then yeah I agree.
    It did not add anything, and actually was not fully played out.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Agreed. Completely pointless and it wasn't utilized in the slightest, it seemed, aside from a few minor moments that (I suppose) were put in to make Renard come across as unstoppable or invincible.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I so wish Carlyle had gone a whole other route with this portrayal.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Here's a suggestion, folks:

    GE, starring Sean Bean as James Bond and Robert Carlyle as 006.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Agree with the thesis. Usually the henchmen dies. Why ruin it by telling at the beginning. Big deal that he can tolerate pain more than most henchmen.



    Sean Bean is an intriguing pick as Bond with Carlyle as Trevelyan.

    I'm in.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Agreed. They really try to build up this idea that he cannot feel pain but then do next to nothing with it. If they had eliminated it the film wouldn't have changed much at all.

    DarthDimi wrote:
    Here's a suggestion, folks:

    GE, starring Sean Bean as James Bond and Robert Carlyle as 006.
    Intriguing. I'm not sure that I like it better than what we have but I can definitely see the potential there.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Agree. Almost everything in TWINE is redundant, come to think of it.
  • Not so much redundant as underused and occasionally ignored, and generally mismanaged.

    The proposal of Sean Bean as Bond and Robert Carlyle as 006 would definitely be a fascinating change to watch, both for that movie and for the remainder of Bean's tenure as Bond. But as an avowed fan of Brosnan, it's tough to want to remove his tenure completely.
  • edited July 2014 Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 302</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Renard's "invulnerability" is a redundant character trait in the final script of TWINE.</b></font>

    Agree, but only in the sense that the trait was not exploited enough in the film for me. All we had was the introduction where he held the scolding rocks. They could have done so much more with it!
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,341
    No great things could have been done with it. Feeling no pain in fact is a huge disadvantage. You might pass out over a bleeding wound that you ignore, because your blood pressure drops. And the coals? They would burn the skin off your hands, destroy the muscles moving your fingers and cause massive loss of fluid from your more damage to your entire system in the long run than is being compensated by 30 seconds of showing off your lack of pain. Utterly ridiculous in any respect. Whoever came up with this stupid idea (P&W?) should be kicked in the back.
  • Posts: 15,124
    It might have been an advantage had it been used at all. Bond should have been beaten up to a pulp and escaped within an inch of his life on their first encounter. Instead they went for an explosion to run from. Weak.
  • edited May 2014 Posts: 512
    I think Renard was talked up as a kind of feint. After all, he is meant to be the main villain as far as the audience is concerned, at that time, as we don't know about Elektra. So he is kind of bigged up to mislead us, then it turns out she is the one who pulls the strings. A bit like in a recent Bond continuation novel.

    I think it might have worked better if Renard had been played by someone with more cinematic presence, rather than a TV star made good putting on a dodgy accent. Carlyle is alright but lacks that sense of 'otherness' that a villain might have. They could have played up his wimpy figure maybe, made him more of a worm. As written, I think he was meant to be a hulking guy. Facially, Carlyle looked right, though, and he did have some good moments.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 303</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>CR is the only Craig Bond in which the second half is narratively stronger than the first half.</b></font>
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    I can't argue with this.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    Disagree. Skyfall had a very strong second half as well.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Hmm, I thought I would agree -

    Skyfall has a terrific first half, but the plotting once the film reached London was so-so.

    Casino Royale was a well written film, full stop. I only thing I would change about is the climax.

    QoS, I thought it got better as it went along.

    Disagree

  • edited July 2014 Posts: 7,653
    SF turned to sh*t the last part
    QoB was sh&t all over the place with some good scenes here and there
    CR was excellent with the exception of the sinking house scene which lets the whole climax of the movie sixzzle out like a wet candle.

    Disagree
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2014 Posts: 18,281
    Disagree. I think they all have suitably impressive and different climaxes, y'see on a par with that of OHMSS, my personal favourite Bond film.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Disagree. Both CR and SF had a very similar story structures.
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