The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I've not read the script but seen the most recent outline, so I've got a good idea of what is going to happen and how it ends etc but I don't know the dialogue or how these scenes are going to look so I'm not to bothered, it all sound very promising, so it's not spoiled anything for me, just pumped to see the finished product.

    This time next year the majority of us will know if it delivered or not.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I have not interest in actively looking for the script. But under different circumstances, yes, I would agree. Reading the scrip would spoil the film.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    Hinx is a bit silly, but Mr. Hinx makes it better somehow. Now if Big Dave plays a sweater-wearing henchman...well, that might be the greatest thing ever.

    How 'bout with black, thick-rimmed glasses, also? Talk about creepy.

  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 317</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>There's no fun in reading the SPECTRE script before watching the completed film.</b></font>

    Fully agree especially if someone spouts out something that none of us wish to know unless it is in the appropiate thread? Don't complain about it either if you don't like what you read either as it was your own choice.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I learned far too much about SF before I saw it and it turned out to be a rather disappointing experience in the end. This time I'm doing my best to avoid any potential spoilers.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    No interest in reading the screenplay. Not so much because it would spoil the fun, although it undoubtedly does, despite what others say, but as a screenwriter I wouldn't want my work lapped up in such a manner. Mendes still gets to add a level of visual surprise, whereas Logan et al get no joy when their work is disseminated in such a way. The fact fans think it's fine bothers me.
  • Posts: 2,341
    I can't wrap my head around people who want to read the script and see everything revealed before hand. I just wait for the movie.
    Thats just me.
  • edited December 2014 Posts: 4,619
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Don't complain about it either if you don't like what you read either as it was your own choice.

    That simply doesn't make any sense. It's like saying "Don't complain about any movie you have ever seen or any book you have ever read as it was your own choice to watch/read them."
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    @PanchitoPistoles, I think there's a difference. Watching a finished film or a finished book allows you the full experience as intended. A script counts for less than half the film. Music, acting, photography, editing, ... all contribute to the ultimate pleasure a film gives you. But if you already know the script, you will bring certain specific expectations to your maiden viewing, you'll know many of the details that unspoiled viewers absorb with the full package. Clearly, they will have more fun.

    I think it's a little bit like when a cook is preparing food but you don't have the patience to wait so you've already begun filling up on the raw ingredients. By the time diner is served, you may even be too stuffed to finish the whole plate.
  • I really don't get the comparison that reading the script for an unreleased film is akin to reading a book before seeing it's respective film adaptation.

    Firstly, films and novels are distinct mediums, neither is in service of the other. Film has certain attributes that a novel cannot offer and vice versa. They are different artistic expressions and their authors/directors have two completely different goals.

    In contrast to a novel, a script is totally at the service of the film it is attempting to depict. If you read it you are reading the director's interpretation of his vision albeit in a very basic form. You are not reading pages in a novel you are reading exact scenes and dialogue that will be placed in the finish film. It couldn't be any more different to a book-to-film adaptation.

    People who are using this as a justification are deluding themselves.

    Scripts provide the bare-bones: you have no insight into performance, production design, art direction, cinematography, etc. You get a very basic and stilted version of the film, however, what you do get are the raw ingredients. The nitty-gritty if you will, and most importantly you find out the film's secrets when you read it.

    The correct place to see a film script realised is on the big screen. It's like when you read Shakespeare at school, it was a bit boring and your mind wondered and you started thinking about the girl across the class. However, when you saw that same play on the stage it comes to life and suddenly it's so much more visceral and engaging.

    The same principle applies with film scripts. You will never be able to gain a proper understanding of the piece by reading a stolen script on your laptop in bedroom. You will never get the full nutrients you will from the film and now you will never know because you have ruined Spectre's secrets for yourself. The sad truth is that you will have to wait at least another 3 years before you have the pleasure of properly anticipating a new Bond movie.
  • Posts: 4,619
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @PanchitoPistoles, I think there's a difference. Watching a finished film or a finished book allows you the full experience as intended. A script counts for less than half the film. Music, acting, photography, editing, ... all contribute to the ultimate pleasure a film gives you. But if you already know the script, you will bring certain specific expectations to your maiden viewing, you'll know many of the details that unspoiled viewers absorb with the full package. Clearly, they will have more fun.

    I think it's a little bit like when a cook is preparing food but you don't have the patience to wait so you've already begun filling up on the raw ingredients. By the time diner is served, you may even be too stuffed to finish the whole plate.

    Let's forget about the movie for a second. This is what RogueAgent wrote: "Don't complain about it either if you don't like what you read either as it was your own choice."

    People who have read the script and are complaining about it are not complaining about the film (which is not even finished yet). They are complaining about the script they have read.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    That, of course, I cannot argue. ;-)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    I have not read a script. I don't even think a script is available at all, and if it is, I'm not going to read it, as that may be a little bit too detailed.

    I've read an overall shooting outline. It's quite brief but covers the major points. Think clapperboard with some text. I'm very happy with what I've read. It gives me comfort that the movie isn't going to be a complete screwup. Sure, I may have done some things differently, but overall, very satisfactory.

    Now I can't wait to see it realized on screen, with dialogue, nuances, changes (and there are changes coming since the shooting outline was not, by any means the final one) and the acting prowess of the amazing actors/actresses they have assembled.

    It's has made me relaxed, excited, and anticipating what is to come next November.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think there's more fun to be had if fans were generally in the same boat not knowing the details if the script thus having speculative and abstract theories and ideas as to what may happen. However, when a good number of people are clued up on the general plot details, the overall interaction of discussions can be limited and to a degree frustrating. On top of that, if the plot details are regarded to be unfavourable then that just sucks completely and makes anticipation levels dip considerably.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2014 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I think there's more fun to be had if fans were generally in the same boat not knowing the details if the script thus having speculative and abstract theories and ideas as to what may happen. However, when a good number of people are clued up on the general plot details, the overall interaction of discussions can be limited and to a degree frustrating. On top of that, if the plot details are regarded to be unfavourable then that just sucks completely and makes anticipation levels dip considerably.

    I agree 100% with what you have said here. The impact on overall discussions is what is most annoying.

    However, once one of those websites published their interpretation and opinion of the very early script draft about a week and a half ago, and it was picked up by many newsites and read by many not actually looking to find that info, the cat was out of the bag.

    For me, the more recent outline only helped to assuage concerns I had regarding that very early leak.

    I've sort of put the whole thing behind me now, and I'm just looking forward to the movie, comforted in knowing it's going to be worth the wait.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I agree. I definitely do NOT want to read the script before seeing the film.
    I do not mind knowing a few things, but small things. I enjoy watching a film fresh. I managed that for Skyfall, and I'm trying hard for SPECTRE. Definitely have no interest whatsoever in reading anything from the script or having anyone tell me something like that. Not at all on the fence about this.
  • Posts: 183
    I haven't read any script leaks (as in leaks of the actual script) but personally have no problem with spoilers from those who have. Such spoilers definitely do not affect my enjoyment of the film but I obviously respect and understand those who don't want to know such information. I'm finding the spoilers I've read so far are actually whipping me into an even greater frenzy of excitement than I would otherwise have been. However I would stop short of wanting to read the actual script. I don't want to do that as that I think would ruin it a little for me. So overall I would have to agree with the thesis as it has been stated.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Yes, that's why I'm avoiding those threads talking about leaks.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The whole script, no Sir! Too tedious, but snippets from it, Yes, Sir! Which I have and do not regret it.
  • Scripts provide the bare-bones: you have no insight into performance, production design, art direction, cinematography, etc.

    And yet it's enough for the men in suits to ask to cut such and such scene :)

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,159
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 318</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>LALD has too many villainous characters.</b></font>
  • Posts: 12,526
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 318</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>LALD has too many villainous characters.</b></font>

    Disagree!!! The more the better as it gives variety!!! 8-X
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 15,106
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 318</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>LALD has too many villainous characters.</b></font>

    I don't think so. It could be true of TLD (maybe) and QOS (although I would then argue that it had too little), but LALD had the villains very much centralized under the authority of Kananga, which worked perfectly.
  • Posts: 1,310
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 318</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>LALD has too many villainous characters.</b></font>
    I think the only one we could have done without was Whisper, but he was so minor it doesn't really matter.

    I'll also say that Tee Hee is probably one of the most underrated henchmen of the entire series.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Definitely disagree. We've got TeeHee, Whisper, Baron Samadi and Rosie, all under the authority of Mr Big/Kanaga. There's plenty of other films that have more.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Not too many, but a couple of them are pretty weak.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I most certainly disagree with this particular thesis. I love all of the characters. Mr. Big looked silly because of the bad makeup job but I liked the idea of him. Also, Rosie was irritating because of the actress who played her. The character herself was fine. All of the others are absolute classics.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Yeah, Baron Samedi and Tee Hee are definitely classic henchmen.
  • Posts: 15,106
    pachazo wrote: »
    I most certainly disagree with this particular thesis. I love all of the characters. Mr. Big looked silly because of the bad makeup job but I liked the idea of him. Also, Rosie was irritating because of the actress who played her. The character herself was fine. All of the others are absolute classics.

    I always thought the bad makeup job of Mr Big actually worked, because it did not work: it looks ugly and creepy, unnatural.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Hmm...I'd agree.

    The fates of a couple of villains aren't seen (Whisper, the taxi driver, the man on the street corner).

    Kananga's death scene also seemed rushed to me as if the producers were wanting to quickly get to the Tee Hee fight.

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