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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 026</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Female nudity, even when portrayed elegantly, is by mere tradition a big no-no for the Bond films.</b></font>
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    All to do with film ratings and not tradition. They want to be able to market and present their films to as many people as possible! Although the Bond/Jinx scene in DAD did push the barrier a little!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    Absolutely. The Bonds by tradition are designed as family entertainment. The violence can never be too graphic and neither can the sex or nudity. Such things are implied, but when they take a shuffle forward, like the Brosnan/Berry sex scene in DAD it all becomes a little uncomfortable.

    The Bond films don't need graphic nudity, the history of the series has proved that.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    @RogueAgent and I must have been linked telepathically. ;)
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    NicNac wrote:
    @RogueAgent and I must have been linked telepathically. ;)

    lol! Great minds think alike! Or is that naughty ones? :))
  • Dr_MetzDr_Metz
    edited January 2012 Posts: 401
    NicNac wrote:
    Absolutely. The Bonds by tradition are designed as family entertainment. The violence can never be too graphic and neither can the sex or nudity. Such things are implied, but when they take a shuffle forward, like the Brosnan/Berry sex scene in DAD it all becomes a little uncomfortable.

    The Bond films don't need graphic nudity, the history of the series has proved that.
    I basically agree with this. The sex in the films should be implied, not shown. It wouldn't bother me if the violence got a bit graphic, however. LTK was a good example of how graphic violence can be done well in a Bond film. Although it shouldn't be done just to do it. In LTK a man's head explodes. You can't not show that in a graphic way.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    RogueAgent wrote:
    All to do with film ratings and not tradition. They want to be able to market and present their films to as many people as possible! Although the Bond/Jinx scene in DAD did push the barrier a little!

    By tradition I meant that they were without nudity in the early 60s (prior to Blow-Up) and they kept being without nudity even when Hollywood evolved into a somewhat more tolerant regime. ;-)

    You're right though that ratings always have a lot to do with it. I wonder how much the bare chest in the LTK OT kept mummy and daddy from taking little Timmy and Bobby to see the film. :)
  • SJK91SJK91
    Posts: 1,310
    NicNac wrote:
    Absolutely. The Bonds by tradition are designed as family entertainment. The violence can never be too graphic and neither can the sex or nudity. Such things are implied, but when they take a shuffle forward, like the Brosnan/Berry sex scene in DAD it all becomes a little uncomfortable.

    The Bond films don't need graphic nudity, the history of the series has proved that.
    Nothing needs to be added here.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    Wasn't there a brief bit in Daylights when Pushkins security personnel caught a glimpse of something that maybe was somewhat out of place in 1987, I had no problem with it but I read before someone brought it to attention. All said, up to this point in time there has never really been anything too untoward on this level, someone mentioned the Brosnan/Berry bit in Cuba, well I didn't think too much of it, there was no offense whatsoever this end, apart from the fact that Berry was an atrocious casting choice. In all honesty and I know it would never see the light of day, as Bond is tailored to a family audience but some nudity (women!) if tastily done, i.e nothing on a gratuitous scale maybe wouldn't go amiss. I know it's a non event however but this thesis did get me thinking. If you watched the credits in past 007 releases after pre credit sequences of years past, they more often than not had women dancing about, it all started off very innocent with the early Connery days, had risen a slight degree by the time of Golden Gun (i.e. cover ups in required places) and by the time of License to Kill women were seen to a much more revealing extent from what I can remember of my last viewing, subsequent releases never really went back to it again, it was all techno shows and events playing a significant part of the themes of the day but I don't have a problem with it. Should also add and I wanted to before it's too late that I recall a bit in the very first adventure Doctor No where Ursula Andress takes a shower and we come very close to seeing the Swiss beauty in all her glory if not for a damn towel coming to the rescue in time, pity really as in retrospect that may have been something I had wanted to see regardless of how others felt about it
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    someone mentioned the Brosnan/Berry bit in Cuba, well I didn't think too much of it, there was no offense whatsoever this end,

    The problem was Berry acted horribly in the sex scene... it seemed like she was eating Brosnan's face and sucking his neck for blood.... gross.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2012 Posts: 4,537
    026. Female nudity, even when portrayed elegantly, is by mere tradition a big no-no for the Bond films.

    I have a problem with some of the nudity of CR. The scene between Bond and Solange (Another Finger Tricker for her majesty), the tortune scene between Lechiefe and Bond. But i don't like the whole torture scene. Also Bond that Bond run as Monkey. I don't have a problem with Bond and Xenia like i don't have a problem with the scene of Eletra and Bond & Elektra and Renard. Christmis Jones and Bond, i thaught the scene whas funny. Jinx and Bond,don't mind if there delete it but as DC have said: i don't give a dam.

    I don't mind to see some more Female nudity as happend in The Roger Moore era or Thunderball and Yolt. Mathis his girl friend whas a very good idea.
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    DaltonCraig007 wrote:
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    someone mentioned the Brosnan/Berry bit in Cuba, well I didn't think too much of it, there was no offense whatsoever this end,

    The problem was Berry acted horribly in the sex scene... it seemed like she was eating Brosnan's face and sucking his neck for blood.... gross.

    Then why didn't they put her in the first Alien film then?
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited January 2012 Posts: 2,629
    We did get brief glimpses of Nurse Fearing, Plenty and Chu Mi.

    I don't mind the nudity, but I can live without nudity in Bond films. There are plenty of other resources where we can go to view Bond Girl's naughty bits.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 24,254
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 027</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Sean Connery is the best Bond by default.</b></font>
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited February 2012 Posts: 15,723
    Connery is the best Bond, but Moore is my favorite, thus rank Rog an inche higher than him. I think Connery will always be the best Bond for most fans and to the general public who will rank Moore, Brosnan and Craig coming in the next 3 places, in whichever order each one feels to rank them.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    In the public's mind, I think so. Or to do with the fact of Connery's status with the series and not willing to try or care enough to see another actor in the role. He was also the first.

    For fans though, anything goes.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Baltimore_007 wrote:
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    Agreed. Almost every action/adventure film I can think of has borrowed from the Bond series in some way.

    How about some other films outside the series that Bond has borrowed 'from'

    Jaws, Star Wars, North by Northwest, Enter the Dragon, Lawrence of Arabia etc, probably more but that'll do for now

    Err... think there's some confusion going on here. North by North West came out in 1959. That's three years before Dr. No and four years before FRWL. I assume the 'borrowing' you that you are referring to is actually FRWL copying the crop-sprayer scene from NBNW.

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 027</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7> <b>Sean Connery is the best Bond by default.</b></font>

    By default of what? Of being the first? By the absence of other Bonds to compare him to at the time? I think that's a fare assessment. Even so, Connery laid the foundations for the venerable franchise by helping create a screen icon. He was so good, that the memories of his performances are what sustain the franchise. Even now, Craig harks back to FRWL in search of 'pure' inspiration. If the first film in the franchise had been LALD, I doubt there would have been three more films in the series. I think no one else could have done what Connery did. He's the only true A-list star to have ever emerged from series and that is a reflection of his screen presence, charisma etc. He obviously benefited by coming first, but without Sean, Lazenby would never have got a shot at the job. If Moore had been cast from the start, we would never have had more than two or three films.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,254
    Agreed. It's well-known that FRWL paid homage to NBNW.

    I also believe, though this merely my personal opinion, that FRWL is the most hitchcockian of the Bonds, and NBNW is one of the reasons for this.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    No,Connery is not the best Bond - personally i think Craig and Moore are better .But he has the best film in the series so far with FRWL......until SF that is ^:)^
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Agreed with @Getafix; Connery’s classless portrayal of Bond endeared him to the masses. Plus every time there’s a new actor taking on the role of 007, the critics compare him to Connery. “The best since Sean Connery”.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Connery was brilliant as Bond, and I guess those early films are considered the most iconic and the 60's is considered the coolest era in history, so if you add it all together then it makes a pretty formidable package. Like DaltonCraig, I personally prefer Moore but it is perfectly understanble why Connery would be considered the best by most.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    FRWL is brilliant Bond in that it absorbs and reflects what else was going on in cinema at the time and repackages it in a way that still feels fresh. The train sequence and the helicopter attack are clearly 'borrowed' from NBNW, but you don't mind because they're done with so much conviction.

    FRWL is simply a great little movie. Brilliantly paced with barely any flab on the story or action. Atmospheric and stunning locations without being OTT exotic. Sean is pretty much in his prime and then there's Daniela Bianchi....
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    But just because Connery is a benchmark being the first,does not make him the best.Personally i think his best acting was in FRWL and TB.
    Apart from those 2 i dont think it was anything special.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I don't understand how any one can in all seriousness not like Connery's performance in Goldfinger...
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Because he hardly does anything for the entire film.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Don't understand what you mean.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I think it would be fair to say though that the best Connery performances are definitley in his first few films?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote:
    Don't understand what you mean.

    He spends most of the film captured,turns Pussy Galore straight,doesnt do anything to save the US soldiers from the Delta 9 nerve gas etc etc



  • GetafixGetafix
    edited February 2012 Posts: 11,425
    But surely the point is that even when he's doing 'nothing' he makes it look so damn cool.

    You must have a heart of ice!
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