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The James Bond Debate Thread - 336 Craig looks positively younger in SP than he does in SF.

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  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    Never been a big Bibi fan to be honest
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    I agree. It showed us that Bond had indeed been aging over the years. It was also interesting to see him actually turn down sex for once.

    And @Baltimore_007 I believe Lynn Holly Johnson was only 22 at the time. While Moore was 53. Pretty creepy if you ask me. But then again Caroline Bouquete was only 23. That biggest age gap between Bond actor and Bond girl in the series. That's why I respected EON alot for casting Maud Adams in Octopussy. She was much more age appropriate for the middle-aged Moore and IMO Moore's most memorable leading lady.

    The age differences sure are staggering sometimes.

    I did this list a while ago (excuse the poor formatting):

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/927/list-of-age-differences-between-bond-and-lead-female
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 042</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Bond - Bibi moments in FYEO were mostly played for comedy and thus weren't distracting at all.</b></font>

    Agree but probably for a different reason than most. I think FYEO is a lot more comical than it's often regarded as. Just as OP, MR and TMWTGG have more serious elements than they're given credit for also.
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    And @Baltimore_007 I believe Lynn Holly Johnson was only 22 at the time. While Moore was 53. Pretty creepy if you ask me. But then again Caroline Bouquete was only 23. That biggest age gap between Bond actor and Bond girl in the series. That's why I respected EON alot for casting Maud Adams in Octopussy. She was much more age appropriate for the middle-aged Moore and IMO Moore's most memorable leading lady.

    Agree. Moore and Miss Adams had the best chemistry of any of the Moore's Bond/Moore's Bond girl matchups. I also think Miss Bouquet would've made a much more plausible leading lady for Dalton's Bond where the age difference would only be 13 years at most.

    http://007art.free.fr/posters/for_your_eyes_only_dalton_5.jpg
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    Posts: 1,497
    The age really doesn't matter. It's about the character. Bibi is played as the teenage Valley girl ditz. So, yes she's in there for comic effect. Melina's character comes across as much more maturity and world weariness and is convincing enough to play opposite Roger Moore (despite their actual age differences).

    But I can only agree with half of this thesis. She's there for comedy, but this isn't a good thing. I found her quite distracting in an otherwise straightforward, serious Bond film. By contrast, take Golden Gun, which opens with Herve Villachaize and a funhouse. Goodnight feels right at home in that rididiculously campy film. Perhaps Bibi would have too.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Samuel001 wrote:
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    I agree. It showed us that Bond had indeed been aging over the years. It was also interesting to see him actually turn down sex for once.

    And @Baltimore_007 I believe Lynn Holly Johnson was only 22 at the time. While Moore was 53. Pretty creepy if you ask me. But then again Caroline Bouquete was only 23. That biggest age gap between Bond actor and Bond girl in the series. That's why I respected EON alot for casting Maud Adams in Octopussy. She was much more age appropriate for the middle-aged Moore and IMO Moore's most memorable leading lady.

    The age differences sure are staggering sometimes.

    I did this list a while ago (excuse the poor formatting):

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/927/list-of-age-differences-between-bond-and-lead-female

    Thanks for reposting that list @Samual. I remember looking for it a while back.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2012 Posts: 13,355
    DoubleOhhSeven wrote:
    Thanks for reposting that list @Samual. I remember looking for it a while back.

    I'm glad I could help. It hasn't been posted in since June, so it would have been hell to find!
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I didn't mind it so much, but could have lived without it. Truth be told I thought Kristatos backhanding Bibi was worse.

    Because FYEO was more of a serious tone, Bibi's character was more or less the comedy relief (aside from the PTS and ending with Thatcher, which wasn't as funny). Still, Roger's Bond turning down Bibi's advances did give Moore the integrity boost that had been lacking in the last few films.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Agreed. While Bibi was annoying as hell ("I wanna win the gold medal!") she was blantantly meant to be that way. A woman that even Bond won't go near? Wow.

  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    If you want to see her in a more serious role or something credible I strongly suggest The Watcher In The Woods, released about the same time as FYEO

    I didn't find the Bibi Dahl character annoying at all, I realize she couldn't ideally have been the real Bond girl in that release and Bouquet did a fine job, but she did have some nice screen presence and gave Moore some quality lines with it. She's supposed to be only fifteen years old in the movie but come on, looks anything but
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 043</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>The Thames boat chase scene in TWINE should have been presented immediately after the opening credits.</b></font>
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    As intended it would have been far better. Great action after the titles plus a really great, short PTS. As it is though, the film has bigger problems, so I shalln't knock it's best action sequence too much.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Hmm never really thought about it to be honest. Perhaps it would have been better that way and had the escape from the Bilbao office a teaser PTS. Sort of in the same way as CR did later.

    So agree.
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I would have been OK if they cut into the main title theme after Bond escaped from the building in Bilbao and walks off and go into the MI5 attack after the main theme. It would have shortened the PTS and still sequed into the MI5 attack.

    Otherwise, I'm fine with the way it ended.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    Disagree. I think the one thing that makes TWINE special is it's long and great PTS, the best think of the film in my opinion.Otherwise it would be a so-so film with a great action scene... but nothing special.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    I think it is fine where it is, but if it had been different I would not have minded either.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2012 Posts: 28,694
    It didn't need to be, and it would still have been the best scenes of the film in my opinion. Disagree.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    I agree. The PTS is supposed to be a teaser not a substantial chunk of the film. By the time the credits role the audience is already well into the film. That was the problem with all of Brosnan's PTSs. Give me the likes of CR, OP, TB, MR, etc anyday.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    I agree with DoubleOhhSeven. I prefer my PTS clean and concise, wetting my appetite rather than stuffing me half full with film material. By the time the OT have played, I’m already left with some feeling of saturation and truthfully, TWINE never gets any better than the PTS IMO. Comparing it to a meal, I’d say the starters were great and I was served a superb dessert as well, long before I had a bland soup and a mediocre main dish.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    edited February 2012 Posts: 1,778
    Honestly I don't think the PTS should ever surpass 7 or 8 mins. TWINE from what I understand is close to 16. Way too long. We see Bond kill some guys, flirt with Moneypenny, talk to M, and even see Q for a couple of seconds before having the best action scene in the film. It's just too much for the traditionally short PTSs. As far as they go less is usually more.
  • KennonKennon
    Posts: 297
    I didn't mind the exceptionally long PTS. I think it wouldn't make that big a difference if the titles came right after the escape from the bank. Could be the flick might have gained a better balance at the start, dunno. Amongst TWINE's problems that still is a minor one.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    I didn't really mind whether it was before or after the PTS. Looking at the final product? I would have to disagree seeing as how after the OT, it cut straight to the funeral. So it would have been a little odd and rushed.

    Talking of PTS's, i wish we could go back to where we had a PTS that was its own little story and completely seperate from the main feature.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited February 2012 Posts: 12,837
    I don't think so, no. Even though I prefer it when the PTS has its own seperate story, TWINE still is my fave PTS because of the action, and it makes the film stand out. Best part of the film (not that the rest was bad) DISAGREE
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    <font color=tomato size=4><b>THESIS 044</b></font>

    <font color=blue size=7><b>Judy Dench worked better with Brosnan than with Craig.</b></font>
  • VirageVirage
    Posts: 1,856
    43= They Tried didn't work.

    44= dunno I'd have to say Craig and Brosman have had different relationships with M. So if you ask me in December I could have a better answer.
  • 6of16of1
    Posts: 63
    I'd say Dench's M and Brosnan's Bond didn't work at all in GE, simply because Brosnan came across as golden boy, barely dry behind the ears. After that the relationship went on fine. Not better than Dench/Craig, different. It's far more an integral element of the storyline than during the Brosnan years, mostly due to the particular story CRQOS tells, with Bond coming on board and M having doubts.

    Frequently misinterpreted here, M doesn't mistrust Bond, she's questioning her own judgement, here decision to promote Bond and keep him on the case after his personal involvement. Later developments show she's right to mistrust her own assessment of the situation as even her own bodyguard is a traitor, a longstanding member of the SIS supposedly above suspicion. It's actually just the natural thing M shoud have doubts under such circumstances.

    Interesting will be how this theme will tackled by Skyfall. From what little is known now it seems the topic won't just be dropped.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I'd say Dench and Broz worked well in GE. Her one line "come back alive" shows her respect for Bond. Also I liked the little smile Broz gives Dench before he leaves the office.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Not too sure about better as they are different time lines and relationships. Witn Brozza he was already there and part of the furniture. With Craig, M is already established and its Bond finding his way. So i would have to disagree with the thesis.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    She worked just as well in my opinion. As for writing, well, you decide...
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I have a feeling DD means the relationship between Dench and Brosnan/Craig as actors rather than their Bond's.
  • DoubleOhhSevenDoubleOhhSeven
    Posts: 1,778
    Completely disagree. Craig and Dench actually have a character dynamic. One that I assume will continue into Skyfall. Plus they're both good actors playing off of eachtother whereas Brosnan didn't deserve to share screentime with Dench.
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